back to article SAP slams Oracle Sun's control of Java

SAP has criticized Sun Microsystems for its control of the group that drives Java, just as rival Oracle is poised to take full control of the body. In a blog posting, the company's chief technology officer slammed the Java Community Process (JCP) for being "heavily dominated" by Sun to the detriment of everybody else. Vishal …

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Bloated dinosaurs fight each other whilst smaller, faster, smarter mammals steal their market.

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FAIL

C'mon SAP...

Not that I'm a Sun or Oracle fanboi, but this is clearly SAP stomping and making noise in an effort to show why the EU should block the merger.

While I do agree that the EU and The US DoJ should block the deal has nothing to do with control of Java, but that unlike IBM and HP, Oracle has gotten in to the apps while HP and IBM didn't.

Going in to hardware would be pushing the limit.

Of course to be honest, I'd much rather prefer to see Oracle drop Sun and then have Cisco pick them up. That would be a much better fit, IMHO.

FAIL because SAP is over playing their hand.

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Go

In breaking news ....Cyber MainLines and Goes On Stream and MainStreams Online ......

.....with a NeuReal Global Deal/Virtual Package.

SMARTer Alien ProgramMING Networks InterNetworking JAVA Appliances aka Global Operating Devices, Create Joined Administration of Virtual Assets.

A little something in the ERP Field of dDutch IntelAIgent Endeavour and absolutely nothing to do with ........ A Federation of American Scientists Special Applications Project ....... although it is such a Program with CyberIntelAIgent Security of Immaculately Resourced Assets for Unified Virulent Forces.

And that is in total agreement with the other news from The Cube, Posted Thursday 12th November 2009 00:38 GMT, "Bloated dinosaurs fight each other whilst smaller, faster, smarter mammals steal their market." albeit it being much more informative, identifying the markets which have been stolen from the handbagging dinosaurs ..... Boardroom Jessies.

And if the Truth be told, and let's tell the Truth, IT renders the Sun Oracle stitch up, dead in the water whenever its Intellectual Property is Superseded ......or if you want to Nitpick and Argue amongst yourselves, Cloned/Pirated/Morphed/Evolved, but one thing it most definitely is NOT, and that is stolen and copied, for it is not Fit for Future OSOS Purpose and Virtual AIMachinery Power Control.

And it is not difficult for Puzzle Palace Phreaks to Reverse Engineer that Simple Riddle, which contains Perfect Directions and Instructions in Order to Engage with the Open Source Operating System Force...... and ITs Dot Alt Initiative with Innovative and Disruptive Elements .... Virtually Real Novel IDEntities for the Change as was Promised by Presidential Decree and Robotic Executive Vested Orders .... for REVOlutionary Solutions.

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Happy

@Ian Gumby

>While I do agree that the EU and The US DoJ should block the deal

Why? Care to elaborate? What is the problem with this deal?

Of course to be honest, I'd much rather prefer to see Oracle drop Sun and then have Cisco pick them up. That would be a much better fit, IMHO

I don't see how it is a better fit at all. Oracle (software vendor) is picking up Sun (software vendor).

Why is Cisco (hardware vendor) and Sun a better match?

Not flaming you - just interested in your thoughts/line of reasoning.

Cheers

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Boffin

Patience

I suspect the real Oracle-EU negotiations are beginning now.

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Here we go again

I always have a problem with issues like this.

Sun created Java. If they want to keep it close to them then that is up to them. Just because it is popular doesn't mean that it magically belongs to someone else (in this case, the "free" software people).

I hate to say it, but it's the same with MS. They create an OS. It's total crap, but for some inexplicable reason, it's also very popular. Calls to "open it up" are unfounded. MS made Windows. Like Java, nobody is forcing you use it. Why then, once a piece of software has reached some sort of critical mass, should it suddenly be expected to become open source.

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Modernize Java??

"Also, that the JCP moves too slowly to modernize Java..."

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SUN has explicitly declared that Java will evolve slowly and thoughtfully. The rapid development will be in the libraries, but the Java language will be slowly developed. That is a good thing for Enterprise systems that are used many years. If SUN would add every new hot feature, in a couple of years, Java would be bloated and the backwards compatibility would be very bad. And after several years, it turned out that the hot new feature, was in fact bad.

No, I say that Enterprise software must evolve slow and thougthfully. Rapid evolvement is a bad thing in Entreprise environment. Often, the systems will run for many many years. You can not force your customers to upgrade all the time, by ending support. That is not Enterprise.

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Putting things in Perspective ...... No One Owns Intelligence, no Matter what anyone would Say*.

Errr ... excuse me, but any Closed System just needs some Intelligence Reverse Engineering/Nuts and Bolts Inspections to know how it is put together. Then it is a simple process of bypassing those elements which either do not respond positively to other input or would work against you, thus allowing for their spaces to be filled with alternate supporting elements. Then does the System Morph into a Cloned Model under New Remote Management Protocols, which can be under Your Own Absolute Control.

Hell, there is hardly ever a few weeks goes by without there being some announcement or other heralding Major Critical System Security Revisions against Remote Code Execution and Possible Systems/Virtual Machine TakeOver. It's not Rocket Science, it's only Programming and the Simple Instruction of Machines, after All.

* But you can charge for it, and some will even pay obscenely handsomely if they have a Deficit of IT in IT.

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I call bullshit

Gavin,

Your passing shot "In case Sikka hadn't noticed, Eclipse is also dominated by another big company - IBM...." is just nonsense in this context. Certainly IBM remains the largest contributor to Eclipse, but this conversation is about governance not contribution.

The JCP remains an organization where Sun has a veto. The Eclipse Foundation has no such special voting rights for any members, and specifically not IBM. The JCP executive committee doesn't approve the budget, staffing or leadership of the JCP. The Eclipse Foundation board does perform those roles at Eclipse, because the Eclipse Foundation is a truly independent, vendor-neutral organization with a real board with real powers.

SAP sits on the board of both organizations. As does Oracle and IBM. They can tell the difference.

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Megaphone

Re: Gorby

I find it quite cute and feel flattered about Mr. Sikka picking up my own comparison of Sun's "Mr. Java" Jeet Kaul with Gorbachev on Facebook this April (just days after at least one takeover bid for Sun was made public, probably still by IBM?;-)

Those who don't know why, please just check Jeet's Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/meetjeet

History has told us not everything went as Gorbachev had wished it for Russia after the wall and iron curtain fell. So while at first sight the comparison is about as good or reasonable as Rod Johnson once calling the JCP "Communist Commissars" fuelled by similar ideas, we all know Rod and the once "Cool, Green Rebel" crew at SpringSource have recently joined "A Dark" or at least far more mainstream "Force", too ;-)

SAP may not be so afraid of Sun nor have they contributed anything significant in the JCP in the last couple of years. I am there since at least 2005 and a year now as only Individual Executive Committee Member outside the United States (thus one of the few in the JCP who can honestly say "Wir sind das Volk!!" and the only one in Europe in both JCP sections ;-)

They show some activity in the Eclipse Foundation which is also slightly more obscure lead and heavily backed by IBM.

What SAP really seems to be afraid of is Oracle succeeding also in a SOHO or Small Customer market they failed for decades to deliver and gain market share. Using Open Source technologies like MySQL, OpenOffice, Solaris and of course Java. Something other big names in Cloud Computing like Google also do (at least with Java or MySQL) or RedHat. Those also competitors of Oracle and IBM in some areas have however succeeded to be a driving "Force" behind standards like Java EE 6 and its many contents or Java Dependency Injection (JSR-330) with both SAP and VMWare/SpringSource only as passive bystanders.

I just as well as other JCP members know, there are still issues to be solved. And maybe a Foundation like structure similar to Eclipse or Apache could also serve this purpose. However those who only shout and swear occasionally but don't really try to TEAR walls down and move things in their ecosystem won't bring the community anywhere. Not themselves, just look at the recent stock market predictions for SAP ;-)

Werner Keil

Executive Committee Member (SE/EE)

Java Community Process

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