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back to article Microsoft admits Mac was Windows 7 muse

Since the very beginning, Microsoft's been accused of copying the look, feel, and functionality of Apple's operating systems. Microsoft's addition of a trash can to Windows 95, for example, was particularly galling for fanboyz as the handy interface element arrived 10 years after Apple introduced its own trash can. Now …

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Heart

hahahhahahahahaha

"but it's built on that very stable core Vista technology, which is far more stable than the current Mac platform"

ahhhh hahahahahaha , hahahahahahahahahahaha.ahhhh hahahahahaha , hahahahahahahahahahaha.ahhhh hahahahahaha , hahahahahahahahahahaha.ahhhh hahahahahaha , hahahahahahahahahahaha.

oh god, i have been depressed for 10 years, but this cheered me right up....

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Happy

Who's the biggest Mac Fanbois?

Well apparently it is someone who works for MS - maybe the CEO?

And this is too funny "Aldous also described Windows 7 as "the next version" of Windows Vista" This is after denying that Windows 7 is the next service pack for Vista. (See here MS has learned something else from Apple. Major service packs cost $!)

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Coat

Microsoft in environmentally friendly

They added a recycling bin, not a trash can!

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Gates Horns

stable core technology?

"it's built on that very stable core Vista technology, which is far more stable than the current Mac platform, for instance"

Right. I'll take a Vista kernel over BSD any day...

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Boffin

And in other news,

The light seen in the atmosphere is commonly within the 450-495 nm range, and species from the family Ursidae are likely to defecate in forested areas.

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Jobs Halo

I'm a Mac

I'm a Mac, and Windows 7 was my idea!

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hmmmm

"built on that very stable core Vista technology, which is far more stable than the current Mac platform"

bollocks

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WTF?

Stable?

I think in the context of this quote they mean stable in the way that Vista was Windows 6.0 and 7 is Windows 6.1 so yes, stable as in doesn't really change other than the marketing gimmick of upping the number. Of course, the fanbois will come out and say that Snow Leopard only went up by .1 too but it was always the intention of Apple to refine Leopard. Guess what, MS even copied that by refining Vista and releasing it as a whole new OS.

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Flame

May I be the first to say...

I, for one, welcome our new Intel-powered overlords, whether they be Apple or Microsoft!

Let the fanboi cries of "Ha! I knew it all along!" now commence.

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Anonymous Coward

Stable

"very stable core Vista technology, which is far more stable than the current Mac platform, for instance"

This is this most remarkable statement I've ever heard.

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Big Brother

Whee MIMErosoft

Name one thing MS innovated besides bad code ?

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Badgers

Interesting claim

"...but it's built on that very stable core Vista technology, which is far more stable than the current Mac platform, for instance."

I hear of Mac machines having problems, and I definitely hear of (and personally experience) Windows Vista / 7 machines having problems, so this is certainly a pretty big claim from the fella!

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Bronze badge
FAIL

Myth busted

Nope, Microsoft didn't say that they copied the Mac. Some bloke who didn't even work on the interface (who works for Microsoft) said so. So myth BUSTED. Bad luck.

"Redmond immediately issued a statement last night stating that Aldous' comments "were inaccurate and uninformed." In a post on the Windows Team blog, Microsoft blogger Brandon LeBlanc confirmed, "unfortunately this came from a Microsoft employee who was not involved in any aspect of designing Windows 7. I hate to say this about one of our own, but his comments were inaccurate and uninformed.""

http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/11/12/microsoft-windows-7-was-inspired-by-mac-oh-no-it-wasnt

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WTF?

<splutter>

Right, Mr. Aldous: you owe me a new keyboard and monitor... my current ones are tea-soaked now:

"... it's built on that very stable core Vista technology, which is far more stable than the current Mac platform, for instance." indeed.

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Grenade

Honestly...

who gives a flying fk about windows vs mac. Using the old cliché 'arguing on the internet is like winning the special Olympics. Even if you win you're still retarded.'.

You use what you use, it's a tool. Stop arguing about it and just bloody use it.

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Linux

I'm a PC

But I run Linux - what side am I on?

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FAIL

Fail

"very stable core Vista technology, which is far more stable than the current Mac platform, for instance"

huh? what was that?

they steal a whole bunch of graphical elements (i.e. THE DOCK) then try and clear themselves by pretending they're BETTER?!

I think it's time to go home, MS...

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Paris Hilton

Plague on both their houses

OS X: certainly not as stable as is reputed, could hang my macbook pretty much on demand. Left with an inoperable reboot cycling Macbook after a software update.

Vista: crud.

W7: Less crud, but still issues, permissions seem to be a bit messed up with administrators being told they need administrator rights to delete stuff, WMC is a joke when it 'shuts down' i.e. it don't. It is a lot more difficult to crash, though I still manage that sometimes. UAC, despite being less of a pain than in Vista, has been disabled by every W7 user I know.

Paris cos we all know she uses Slackware

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Coffee/keyboard

WHAT!!!

"very stable core Vista technology, which is far more stable than the current Mac platform"

Does anyone know how to get coffee off my screen, keyboard, phone and the person sat opposite me, and the people sat behind and just to the right of them.

I'm no Mac fan but he needs to be seriously, seriously, SERIOUSLY, deluded making statements like that.

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Gates Halo

Cherry-picking

Luckily MS only nicked the good bits from OSX and stuck with the Start Menu+Taskbar instead of the Mac's ultra-clunky Dock.

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WTF?

"Vista technology, which is far more stable than the current Mac platform, for instance."

Ho ho ho. Pull the other one.

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Gates Halo

@ Shane Sturrock - $400 for Windows 7

'Guess what, MS even copied that by refining Vista and releasing it as a whole new OS.' The one thing MS DIDN'T copy: price. Pity that MS didn't charge the same as Apple for their 'very stable core Vista technology'.

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Thumb Down

stable!!

Well my mac does have problems but it took several months to get to a slow slothful state - and it still does not crash.

Wheras my work laptop was remimaged with Vista last week and it is already woefully slow and non repsonsive for about the first 10 minutes after I log an stuff loads....

Every time I shut it down it BSODs.

Stable as an, umm..... not very stable thing.

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Silver badge
FAIL

ROTFLMAO

That is all.

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Dead Vulture

Gah

Attempt to mimic rather than attempt too mimic - surely?

Gah I'm being pedantic again

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Badgers

BS

Perhaps he meant stable - as in the place with the horse manure-covered floor.

And some bulls, too for good measure, apparently.

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Paris Hilton

Ouch

Steve Jobs must be so hard...

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Stop

Windows Vista...

...may look like a pig after a particularly nasty incident with a bus, but I've never actually seen it BSOD as such. (Unlike my old XP-based PC. Though that was primarily caused by Creative Labs' famously poor software skills.)

@fred slack 1:

From a "core competence" standpoint, it's clear Microsoft are a developer tools and technologies company first and foremost. Windows is just a platform they maintain for their development technologies to run on. There's a good reason for Microsoft's success: their development tools are second to none. Make developing apps for your platform a piece of cake, and you'll not have to wait long before third party developers appear.

(Note: I'm a Mac user these days, and don't even own a Windows box any more, so I can hardly be accused of being a Windows fan, yet I still haven't found a development tool as good as MS' Visual Studio suite. Apple's Xcode isn't anywhere near as good, though it's a hell of a lot better than it used to be. And it's light years ahead of the old Metrowerks crud Apple developers had to use back in the pre-OS X days.)

Microsoft have genuinely innovated in the developer technologies front too. Their .NET framework really is what Java *should* have been. MS also realised games developers would need a single, unified set of technologies to target, so they created DirectX. (That took a while to catch on, but only a fool would build a PC game without it today.) And MS' XNA toolchain for their Xbox360 console is also leaps and bounds ahead of anything Sony or Nintendo offer.

I honestly don't get all this hatred between Microsoft, Apple and Linux users. Not one of these operating systems is directly competing with the others. Apple are primarily consumer-focused. (Clue: if you're reading this website, chances are you're NOT Apple's target market.) Microsoft are primarily corporate-focused (in the PC market; the Xbox360 is another beast); Linux is... a kernel which comes with a free political movement.

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FAIL

I think what he actually meant to say

Was that vista and win7 were something that got shoveled out ot a stable. In a big steaming heap.

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Gates Halo

Position open at Microsoft UK

Looks like there'll be an opening for a new Partner Manager at Microsoft UK then.

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wut?

"but it's built on that very stable core Vista technology, which is far more stable than the current Mac platform"

MacOS is definitely not perfect, there are lots of things about it which annoy me daily, but stability is not one of them.

To be fair since XP windows has been much much more stable, but to put them in the same ballpark is a little disingenuous to me. I know, I know it's probably just dodgy drivers that cause most of the problems so maybe their 'core' claim is true... maybe...

All I know is that I can always go to any of the macs in our offices and there will be a usable machine with no hassle. Whereas if I sit down in front of one of the many PCs I can be sure there will be *some* problem.

I have only been running 7 for a few days now, so can't say anything about it yet really.

I would dearly like to find it is as stable as the Macs - as it would cut down on lots of hassles for everyone.

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Linux

Wow really?

So basically they are going for the retards of the computer world for users. So yeah a better GUI is the right area. But lets see... a base off of a *nix os or a base off of vista. While i HATE macs. The base is better in the original setup. Not saying mac kept it safe and stable but a much stabler start at least.

Same point. Both systems are good for certain things. Windows if you wanna play games. Mac if you wanna play with crayons. and *nix if you wanna actually work.

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Alert

More of the Same

I beg to recall and recount to the assembly that Microsoft originally disparaged the very idea of a GUI prior to the original release of Windows. They also discounted TCP/IP as an "uncontrolled" protocol with no future. The express need for something called "WIndows For WorkGroups" was to compete with Apple's peer-to-peer file sharing when their own "you have to buy and license a server" approach became untenable. I am not saying that Apple invented any of this from scratch. But they had the sense to use it. Microsoft in contrast has been instrumental in limiting real progress for the sake of their profits throughout their history.

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FAIL

Stable Vista.

Vista, the most stable M$ OS ever. The DVDs stayed right in their boxes and should last a few hundred years at the landfill. Windows 7 is more of the same. An OS that no one uses will never crash.

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CC

But seriously folks....

All this time I thought it looked like OS2 Warp!

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Boffin

@ AC 23:36

*Sigh*, here we go again.

The OS X kernel isn't "BSD". It is XNU. XNU (both K32 & K64) is a combination of the Mach 3.0 microkernel (which provides tasks&scheduling), pieces of the FreeBSD kernel (which provide the block support, POSIX API, networking, etc), and the I/O Kit driver model.

The OSF/1 aka Digital UNIX aka Tru64 kernel is a similar hybrid of Mach 2.5 microkernel + BSD4.3 kernel. The mkLinux was also similar in that they used Mach 3.0 + the Linux kernel.

A lot of the "UNIX" pieces of the userland are also from FreeBSD.

The IP stack in pre-Vista Windows was from BSD. I don't go around claiming Windows is BSD just because it has some of their code in it! We all know the Windows kernel is just stolen/reworked/broken VMS, after all!

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Silver badge

Who cares

We're still talking about an OS which in it's commonly distributed version cannot access Microsoft Windows domains. Not even the biggest version of Windows 7 supports SSH logins.

So it's completely useless, no matter how many old features like "non overlapping windows" they rescue from the grave.

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Silver badge

Yawn Yawn

Windoze itself was "inspired" by the Gem and Apple Lisa interfaces, who in turn took the WIMP paradigm from Xerox's research place.

the '\' subdirectory separator was added to MSdos when subdirectories were added, in imitaiton of UNix's '/' rather than Digitals '[root.sub.subsub]' convention.

8.3 file names were snitched from CP/M, and the unique OS that was used for the first Intel development systems

Redmond is just an ideas hoover attached to a rather shoddy code factory and a very good marketing department.

Oh, and I agree that the idea that Vista is more stable than OSX is the most laughable case of pissing into the wind I have heard for a long time. Pull the other one, big boy, it has bells upon it.

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Vista is stable...

...in the sense that it's not easily persuaded to do anything it doesn't want to do right now e.g. by clicking the mouse or operating the keyboard.

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Welcome

Stable core

Gosh, so difficult to have to face fanboism every time an OS is mentioned. It's become pathetic.

Let me try to (attempt to) explain:

What the MS person meant is that the kernel (also used in Windows Server) which powers all kinds of hardware including servers, is much more stable. Do you see a lot of OSX-powered server machines running anything else than ShoutCast?

I'm running Win 2008 file, intranet, etc. servers and have not rebooted once in almost 2 years. I don't see it needing any reboots in the coming years either. Now that for me is stability, so I accept his point totally.

Now obviously if you consider client machines for home users etc. there are issues with hardware, rogue software, etc. So of course the systems there are less stable.

But to be fair, I bet if OSX were to support all kinds of hardware, it would be much buggier than Windows 95 tbfh. Quality is directly proportional to dollars spent for testing. Supporting one base (and still getting it wrong sometimes) is one thing, supporting thousands is another.

So please try to keep a higher level, understand why things are where they are right now and don't be a fanboi.

I for one welcome that Win 7 is more Mac-like UI-wise.

But to be honest I'm very glad it's not anything like a Mac in everything else.

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Anonymous Coward

@Charles Manning

>They added a recycling bin, not a trash can!

No, they added a trash can, got sued, and changed it to a recycling bin.

Vista? Stable? You mean stable like Charles Manson stable?

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Ha

As long as theya only copy the looks we are fine. Mac OSX looks good. The worry is that they go the otherway and we end up with slow resource heavy OS like OSX which wont run any thing other than a web browser.

PCs are Paint and Macs are Crayons lets hope it stays that way.

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recycle

"They added a recycling bin, not a trash can!"

It's a dumb name for it though, you don't recycle those files!

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Anonymous Coward

@Whee MIMErosoft

"Name one thing MS innovated besides bad code ?" And deleting all the user's data when they login as a guest is good code? Copying the code (complete with known bugs) from a previous version of the OS is good coding?

Apple have slipped a long way down in the quality list over the past few years, the buggy updates are appalling and becoming a joke. Too much time spent on transferring their core business away from computing and into crap phones.

I own both Mac's & PC's and yes Windows 7 is far more stable than OS X.

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Happy

I think that's called

going waay off-message. Looking at the original article, the interviewer responds to the "stable Vista" statement with the question

"So you’ve taken the style of the Mac platform and built it on the more solid foundations of Vista?"

Sadly there are no emoticons or other visual clues, but surely that was asked with either a grin or an utterly disbelieving face?

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Gates Horns

OS X api stability

First, afaik there is no BSD KERNEL in OS X. It's a Mach based kernel, the same design the Windows NT kernel was designed to. BSD part are userland, not kernel.

And the core windows API, win32/64 is indeed very stable, dating back to Win 95 in large parts. Try running modern OS X binaries on OS X 10.0.... Try running 1995 binaries under Snow Leopard.

Of course the guy probably didn't mean that. It is probably just marketing gibberish

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Linux

I'm a PC

but not on Windows.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Whee MIMErosoft

fred slack 1 wrote:

> Name one thing MS innovated besides bad code ?

GMT daylight time.

And they didn't innovate bad code. It's been around as long as code.

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