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back to article Eurostar frustrated by 'illegal' e-Borders scheme

Government legal officials are still investigating whether aspects of the £1.2bn e-Borders scheme are illegal, a year after concerns were raised by Eurostar. Lawyers for the cross-channel train operator believe the system will require it to break European data privacy laws. They have been pressing the UK Border Agency to clarify …

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Thin end of the wedge

The monitor people who cross the EU border

Now they want to monitor those who cross the UK border

They already monitor those who cross the City of London border

Where next? Monitor those who cross various council borders?

Just where does Labour get off thinking we want o need this constant monitoring? Just because MPs are a bunch of crooks does not mean the rest of us are. Perhaps they should turn the eagle eye and iron fists to their own ranks before trying to bring the entire populace under their jack-booted heel.

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Hm

Can I just say that the UKBA must be *the* number one laziest organisation in the history of the planet. I can't imagine how they must work internally, although I'm convinced that the only way they could end up operating in the timescales that they do is by continiously and deliberately ignoring matters.

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yachties?

You need to submit your journey plan prior to departure and confirm arrival, with information about all those on-board. Failure to do so, or failure to submit changes to the itinerary are an offence.

As small craft can often be at the mercy of the weather and tides, I'm still waiting to find out how a yachtsman in the middle of the channel is supposed to submit, via the website, a change to their itinerary due to bad-weather mid journey, when all they have is a VHF radio, and not even a mobile signal. Especially when, if they arrive at a different port or at a different time from their logged itinerary, then the "captain" has committed a criminal offence for not notifying e-borders of the change.

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Well the obvious fix...

"We believe, and the legal advice we have had is that it is not legal to export the sort of data required by e-Borders within the EU, and it is only legal to export that data outside of the EU,"

export the data from France etc to Brazil, then import the data from Brazil to the UK.

Simples *squeak*

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A database - the panacea for rubbish.gov

yeah let's make a database..one for all the pedo's, one for all the could possibly be pedo's. One for the DNA of the 9 year old that nicked a tube of smarties from the corner store. One for all our websurfing. One for all our citizens and one for everyone entering/leaving the country. Of course this will stop all crime and the terrorists from getting into the UK for sure.

How long before every plod is allowed to stop you and say "Papers please?"

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Anonymous Coward

4500 arrests.... or zero

"He added that e-Borders has led to more than 4,500 arrests for crimes "including murder, rape and assault and significant counter-terrorist interventions".

Back in the real world, it's led to zero arrests because these details were already checked at arrival in the UK. All eBorders did was create a massive database of UK citizens travels, as if that was ever Jacqui Smiths business.

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4500 arrests?

"including murder etc..." - and 4400 unpaid parking fines?

and of course a simple passport check would never have uncovered any of these?

There's a basic principle that the nazis in power conveniently forget. In Britain no permission is needed to leave the country. No passport is needed to leave the country. Unless a court has specifically ordered me to stay, if I want to go, I can. The passport identifies me as British and requests and requires assistance when I am entering a foreign country, and also confirms that I have the right to ENTER the country when I return. That's all. I do not need to show a passport to board a plane or train from another country - just when I arrive.

It's an easy system: bods at entry points check passports against a list of crooks wanted for serious offences. That's all that's needed.

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Re : bertie bassett

'How long before every plod is allowed to stop you and say "Papers please?" '

You need to be worried about the Plod, and every council offical just snarling "Papers!"

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Anonymous Coward

@e-Borders has led to more than 4,500 arrests for crimes

And we are meant to believe this government statistic because??

If this figure comes from the National Audit Office then I am inclined to believe it .. if it has come directly from the Home Office then I would question its validity immediately.

This government has a good record of spin, massaging numbers and generally fibbing when it suits their purpose ... was Tony "lives with parents, honest" McNulty, Ms J "adult features" Smith or even Phil "No to Gurkas, but expenses for nappies" Woolas involved in this? If so, then sorry I don't believe the figures.

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Coat

Silly me. There i was thinking that the EU was...

all about the FREE MOVEMENT of GOODS & PEOPLE.

Now NuLab want B.Liar as EU Pres?

Come on Gordo and admit the time is up and call an election.

Mine the one with "Moving to mainland Europe" on the back and a Eurostar ticket in the pocket.

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@bertie bassett

Your first mistake is to assume they'll say 'please'...

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re: 4500 arrests?

"I do not need to show a passport to board a plane or train from another country - just when I arrive."

yes you fucking well do. airlines won't let you board an international flight without having valid documents for the destination country. if you don't show them your passport or whatever, you won't be able to travel. that's because if you're refused entry at the overseas border, the airline gets fined and has to pay the costs of bringing you back to where your journey started. the same will be true for international train journeys.

btw for some places, your details have to be filed with the airline and authorities more than a day before you travel: usa for instance. the zanulab pricks are trying to bring in similar rules for people coming to the uk. though why foreigners would choose to visit this shit-hole police state is a mystery

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He added that e-Borders has led to more than 4,500 arrests

And precisely how many of those arrested where convicted.

Lies, damn lies, and government selectively reporting statistics.

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US

I think the idea is a croc of Siht but Doesn't Europe already supply all this Data to the US before passengers set off?

How can the US gett away with it, but supplying it to a fellow member state would be Illegal?

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Go

go EU

Another example (after the DNA database) of the EU *protecting* our rights from our own government. When will those idiots at UKIP realise that it's the USA, not the EU, that really threatens British people's rights?

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Happy

@The BigYin: "Where next? Monitor those who cross various council borders?"

What you talking about, they already monitor everyone who crosses the road! ;)

Come to think of it, they also monitor everyone driving on the road. No mention yet about the chicken crossing the road?.

But I'm sure that's only because Bernard Matthews are the last government corporate department to be setting up their own spy cameras.

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Big Brother

@ The BigYin

"Just where does Labour get off thinking we want or need this constant monitoring?"

Are you clueless about the nature of NuLabour? Evidently yes; so let me enlighten you.

NuLabour is in many respects as bolshevist and collectivist as any political organization ever was. They have all the respect for the law that any totalitarian system has: when it's in the way, to be ignored or overturned by diktat; when useful, to be waved around as a weapon against enemies of the system. In particular, legal limitations on the powers of government are viewed as bourgeois, obstructionist, obsolete, politically naIve, and contrary to Correct Thought and Party Loyalty.

I'm convinced that one of NuLabour's overarching goals is the reform of the British populace to create The New British Man, an entity generally resembling The New Soviet Man (or whatever the Russians termed it). To do this requires that all signs of deviancy from the Party Line be detected and noted for future rectification.

Hence the need for 24/7 monitoring of the population. How else can the Thought Polilce do their job, pray tell?

NuLabour's one and only saving grace is that they are as stupid as all get-out and invariably make a hash of things while they thrash around trying to be proper bolshevists.

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WTF?

err

The article shows the UKBA are the problem here, perhaps El Reg should put their boot in the door and get someone to give a real explanation.

...and I thought OFCOM were retards!

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@Nigel Callaghan

The trouble is that the carrier will want to see proof that the destination country will admit you before they let you board, because they get screwed if you turn up and are refused entry due to obviously invalid or non-existent paperwork. Once they've noted that, it's easy for uk.gov to hem to hand over a copy.

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Anonymous Coward

So, EU law...

...means that it illegal to export EU personal data from one member of the EU to another, but it's fine to export it from one EU member to the US and the US to export that back to another EU member?!? That is clever.

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Pint

Britain? Not worth the hassle.

I was born in England, use the British passport (and others, legally) but I have avoided the country for some years and will even more so now because of the 'spy' mentality. I still get my pension money, though, and it exits without the Government knowing.

My whereabouts, activities, marital status, etc. are all unknown to the UK Government spy / intrusion network.

As one of my passports is legally in a different name, I could even get hack in the UK without their knowing my birth name!

It takes a little effort, and immigration, but it can be done.

Up yours, Blair and Brown (and Blunkett)

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Er?

I wonder if the illegality of moving the data within the EU is to do with having open borders and hence, in theory, no justification for doing it?

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