Google is offering a new Internet Explorer plug-in that turns Microsoft's browser into a Google browser. And in predictable fashion, Microsoft is peeved. As it prepares to grant widespread access to the preview version of Google Wave - its new-age communications platform - Google has fashioned an IE plug-in that equips Microsoft …
To Cade Metz
This almost looked like it was supposed to be a news article. Instead it's a distorted rant against Microsoft that is even more intemperate than the remarks of Google's own head of engineering. The most childish part was the assumption that Register readers most certainly use something besides IE (or in other words, "a better browser.") One wonders if El Reg's own webserver logs would bear that out?
A Chatterley moment.
"Is it a browser you would wish your wife or servant to use?” after Mervyn Griffith-Jones QC.
IE for me, see?
Personally I use IE8 about 80% of the time and Firefox3 the other 20%.
I don't care for any of the other browsers for a number of reasons, so "chroming" up my IE is pretty much never going to happen.
The browser is meant to be the gateway to the internet. IE is the kid with the knife slashing the tyres on everyone's cars in the hope they'll pay to travel on the old stagecoach.
Actually I found it a thoroughly amusing read. Sounds like the playground bully has just been dragged out by the ear to go and have a good wash :)
Can I run Google Chrome Frame in an IETab in FF, do you suppose?
@ Morris Maynard
Why do think it childish to assume that most Register readers, who tend to be tech-savvy, would use a browser other than IE? It's not childish, it's perfect sense. IE is a shit browser. It's fucking dreadful. The only tech people I know who use it are those who have to for testing purposes because it's been pushed down the throats of non-tech users.
Tell me seriously that you think IE is a better browser than Firefox.
"The most childish part was the assumption that Register readers most certainly use something besides IE (or in other words, "a better browser.")"
Nah, that was your assumption.
Surely the point is that if you are reading all the way to the end of an article about browser quality then you are savvy enough to be using a better browser than IE?
Which I did and which I am
Reg Reader browser stats
The world's turned upside down!
For years Microsoft have been sticking their noses in other people's business and f@*king their shit up. Embrace & extend and all that...
Now it's happening to them, they don't like it. Tough. Reap what you sow!
I hate vista.
Because there's all kinds of crap in there that is there because of agreements with movie makers.
There's tons in there that is there because of business analysts trying to justify their existence.
I simply hate it.
I'm a big fan however, of some microsoft products, notably the pre-screwed ide version of visual studio.net, sql server etc.
So what I do is use them all on XP, and tell every consumer I see to avoid microsoft like the plague, and I'm going to keep on doing it until they start thinking of developers, and include a button labelled "I'm an expert and if I run protected content, it's noone's business but mine." which removes DRM completely from the hard drive, returns Office to the interface they had for ten years, and starts copying files when I ask it to, rather than looking through them all first, to see whether it thinks I should be allowed to or not.
Silvershite eat your babies
"Given the security issues with plug-ins in general and Google Chrome in particular, Google Chrome Frame running as a plug-in has doubled the attack area for malware and malicious scripts. This is not a risk we would recommend our friends and families take."
Friends and families? Notice the emotional argument made there, not a rational one. If the plugin means that Google Chrome is surfing and not IE, then my cute little babies can sleep safer at night protected from the evil people in Redmond who install addons like Silvershite baby killer and pretend they are essential updates, quadrupling the attack vector of the browser and putting my babies at risk!
Chrome(d) embellishing of IE
I read this article with some amusement - it's the software equivalent of a 17yr old sticking BMW alloys on a 1996 Ford Fiesta. Two fingers at MS it shouts (I'm not that keen on G Chrome and even less on IE - especially as my flavour of the NHS is still on IE6 + XP Pro - new this year!).
Still even better was reading the first post and remembering the recent article (I forget where I read it ) that pro -linux/Google/anything against MS being trashed as soon as they appeared. Morris, you're a star - five gold ones from the teacher (Bill G)
I call foul
"Updating these browsers could break enterprise apps."
As a 10-year enterprise app developer, I call foul. If the apps break, hire some developers to update them or replace them. It sounds to me like they don't want to mess up the interface. It's quite simple to update the application interface (compared to the business logic that is much more important and critical to the application).
This excuse has been trotted out time and time again. Are programmers that expensive or are companies that uncomfortable with making updates?
I would like to try IE8
It sounds good actually, do you think they will do a version for me, like firefox, opera etc do? (Ubuntu 9.04) Have they discovered tabs yet? Oh sorry - forgot, corporates don't like change.
p.s., I'd like to try chrome as well . . . . .
"security issues with plug-ins in general"
"security issues with plug-ins in general and with ActiveX and more recently Silverlight in particular, we ... er"
Oh hold on, ActiveX and Silverlight are ours aren't they. Can we fix that in the edit, thanks?
IE8 is the new IE6
You might not know this yet if you are 8 years old, or if you are senile, or if you live in the US, or if you come from another planet, or if your IQ can be expressed in two decimal digits, or if you suffer from Downs, Aspergers or Williams Syndrome and are therefore too trusting.
This Has Been A Public Service Announcement
@I hate vista.
DRM has never noticibly intruded upon my usage of Vista, and the Office 2007 interface is a huge step up from 2003 and previous versions. Once you've designed a few user interfaces, you will learn to appreciate how incredibly versatile and compact the Ribbon is.
Saying you prefer toolbar spam simply because you know where things are is incredibly ignorant.
"This excuse has been trotted out time and time again. Are programmers that expensive or are companies that uncomfortable with making updates?"
Yes and yes. There's a lot that declare, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it," and then will never admit to it being broken.
The next step should be for Google to post how they did the plugin so FireFox, Opera, (maybe even Safari) et al could get into the IE-inplace-replacing action.
A bit rich...
"This is not a risk we would recommend our friends and families take"
Ah, just like running Microsoft OSes, a risk I would not recommend my friends and families take. But anyway...
I need popcorn!
Now that ought to be an interesting fight, with lots of bitchslapping, hair pulling, biting and pinching. Go Google go!. Er, I mean, Go MS go! Oh whatever, it'll be fun anyway.
<Sits back and watches>
PS MS lost all right to bitch about this kind of things, especially after the "unremovable one-click-malware-install Firefox plugin incident a while back:
"Tell me seriously that you think IE is a better browser than Firefox."
I think that IE is better than Firefox. I hate Firefox.
Though I do like Chrome, and Safari is nice to use on my OS X partition. It's just Firefox that I don't like using.
Tech savy users
don't feel the need to rant and rave about browsers (and are unlikely to have just one in use) - only those who have to rely on what others tell them what is good seem to need to rant.
Windows as Pork Chop
"This is not a risk we would recommend our friends and families take"
Is this a tacit admission that paranoid wild-eyed Microsoft opposition might like their friends, if they had any, or does it mean that IE is the pork chop for the Internet Rodney Dangerfield suggested ?
Could go either way. God, I hate ambivalent Press Releases.
http://dev.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel - There you go. Enjoy!
Those pesky chickens have come home to roost in the Redmond barn.
- MS owns the desktop (for now)
- Google owns the web
- Google owns search
I can envision a time in the future where users, misty eyed, will remember the "good old days" when we used to almost always use MS software. They will then be bitching about Google.
Boots on the other foot.
Microsoft would think nothing of secretly putting MS add-ons on other rival browsers. ie Firefox.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
About this whole issue
I use FF, IE 8, Safari (sparingly...never if I can) and Chrome.
I like both FF and IE (not to sure how I would like Ribbon on FF though). Firefox at work because its stable (most of the time and a hell of alot faster then IE) but I use IE at home because I realy dont give a shit about browsers at home. It does the job and I can see the porn...er...websites I want to :)
As for IE being insecure I agree but at the same time in over 2.5 years with no AV or Firewall (PC sits in DMZ) of any type I have yet to get a virus. Weeeeeee
will this plug in let google turm IE8 into another mine of info it can use/sell on/or provide to our chums in the US security services?
Do no evil fanboys
Not while Ballmer's watching
"This is not a risk we would recommend our friends and families take".
If Ballmer sees you using ChromIE he'll kick your PC to death.
"will this plug in let google turm IE8 into another mine of info it can use/sell on/or provide to our chums in the US security services?"
I think that the AC is trying to communicate with us, but I have no idea what they are trying to say.
Should the Google plugin-in be called Alchromy?
I think I've finished laughing now.
I remember just the other month Redmond was telling us all how easy it was to write IE plugins, whilst trying to compete with Firefox.
I guess they didn't see this plugin coming.
Microsoft is complaining that someone is doing to them what they do to everyone else. Priceless!!!
Not that I like Chrome... I've trialed it a couple of times (last time was a few weeks ago) and couldn't stand it.
For the record I used Firefox.
@James O'Brien - If you have no AV, how do you know that you've not got any viruses or trojans etc?
What a great idea
Brilliant, take the world's second worst web browser, add a plugin that turns it into the world's worst browser, then watch as your computer implodes from all of that concentrated fail now residing on your hard disc.
"One wonders if El Reg's own webserver logs would bear that out?"
I don't work for reg but positively guarantee you that's the case if they record stats correctly (i.e. not using the user agent string).
Maybe what google should be doing is not supporting IE where it doesn't render something properly, like for example if something is insanely slow in IE but isn't in other browsers - let it be slow, if it renders like a dog's breakfast in IE7, but is fine in other browsers - let it render like a dog's breakfast.
It's the only way to force users to use a real browser, let them see how the sausage is made as it were. Those of us developers who don't have the traffic clout to do it but wish we did are begging for somebody to do this.
Save us Google - and no, creating your own browser monopoly isn't going to cut it,
It is impossible that you are a developer on windows and retain those opinions. Vista is too slow. Full stop.
Now it may be that you can prettify your environment. That makes you, at best, a power user, not a developer.
If you ever become a developer with a real deadline you will appreciate why people get upset when their machine just stops for no reason, takes 15 minutes to read the table of contents on a DVD or starts going at half pace because Microsoft has initiated some unnecessary process in the background which is stealing memory and machine cycles.
All of these things happen to me on a quad core COMPAQ with 3GB of memory.
I await a true pre-emptive multitasking desktop OS... Maybe Google?
ie8 is not bad
i quite like ie8. it's got tabs, it's fast, looks better than ie6.
i tried chrome once, and i never bothered to use it or update it again. i use firefox or elinks most of the time.
google should stick with the relationship they have with firefox.
ie8 is actually very good
People slamming IE have probably not tried it since the last millenium.
...Microsoft will release a fix to "patch" this "security hole".
Well, that's clever.
"....Malware that targets Chrome is essentially unheard of due to an insignificant market share...."
So either it doesn't take off, in which case you don't need the plugin, or it does in which case you're f***ed. In exactly what way does this help?
At the risk of being flamed to death, I'd like to counter the shrill fanbois above by saying that I, for one, reckon that IE8 is most certainly a better browser than FF3. At the end of the day they both do the job, so the only real choice is down to the UI and FF feels "clunky" to me.
Google will win this,
It is a perfect situation, Google just need to implement the bog-standard "You need a plug-in to continue, click here to download and install it" link.
The typical IE user, bless their little heart, will click on pretty much anything that asks to install itself because that is how they have been trained by M$ to interact with their computer.
And as soon as this Google plug-in is available, other sites (which want to use HTML5 so they don't have to code for older IE versions) will link to Google's plug-in for IE users to install. The user is happy because they still will have their familiar IE, and M$ loses market share.
Does this mean we finally get SVG?
By 'we', I mean us developers. Now that would be progress. I'll be able to remove all my 'deoptimizations' that are necessary to stop VML barfing under load.
"Maybe what google should be doing is not supporting IE where it doesn't render something properly, like for example if something is insanely slow in IE but isn't in other browsers - let it be slow, if it renders like a dog's breakfast in IE7, but is fine in other browsers - let it render like a dog's breakfast.
It's the only way to force users to use a real browser, let them see how the sausage is made as it were."
Problem is, most users won't realize. They will just think "Oh, this Google site thing is really slow and looks ugly." and not give it a second thought. So it'll hurt google, not MS.
What they'd need to do is, instead, give the user some sort of message like "You're on IE, which has problems running webpages like this. Install this plugin to fix the problem or better yet, install a better browser. But if you want to stay on IE like it is, you can. Continue at your own peril."
If they did that, then people would be more likely to put blame where it belongs, and make their own choice about what browser to use.
But... uh... isn't that exactly what they're doing? So you get your wish :)
Google Vs. Microsoft
Kinda like being the Swiss in WW2. Make money from both sides and pick up the pieces after the bad guys expire. Wonderful concept.
Sit back and watch from the sidelines.
@ Kotonoha: alternate reality?
"DRM has never noticibly intruded upon my usage of Vista, and the Office 2007 interface is a huge step up from 2003 and previous versions. Once you've designed a few user interfaces, you will learn to appreciate how incredibly versatile and compact the Ribbon is."
One by one:
Overall: Vista sucks. It sucked when it was introduced and it has gone downhill from there. You may have failed to notice that in terms of sales it only had market coverage because either people HAD to change or it came pre-installed. In general, Vista has done more for the sales of XP and the installation of Linux than any other MS ever - maybe with the exception of Windows ME.
DRM: sure, I love it when my co . . . . . . . . .mputer goes elsew. . . . . . . here for sometimes full minutes at a time during normal wordproc. . . . . . . . essing. I have several times more computing power than was used to send a man to the moon, yet I have to wait for a computer? What for? Animated cursors? WGA calling home to report the competitive landscape on my system? (WGA, btw, is IMHO still an unwarranted intrusion on my system).
Office 2007: I take it personal when someone tries to ram down their idea of how I should work down my throat, especially the ribbon. If you're a casual "I need to type some letters for school" user it's OK; but for anyone who is a mite more sophisticated the eternal "WTF did they stick so-and-so feature this time" search is a serious productivity loss, made worse by the MS "online" help which turns a search for answers into a list of 100 irrelevant hits on the Net. I guess that's the basis on which Bling was developed. I know some offices that switched to OOo exactly because it did NOT have the ribbon.
I really hope FF coders retain legacy interfaces, I really don't know why they need to follow MS in the interface.
"Saying you prefer toolbar spam simply because you know where things are is incredibly ignorant."
Sure. The next time you leave your cave, you could think about the gazillion people for whom computers are just tools. They are not experts, and you will find gazillions who use every program fullscreen because they were never told about what a desktop metaphor actually can do for them. Every single time you change their onscreen experience you cause these people hassle, but they deserve that because they're ignorant sheep, yes? I don't think that's a terribly bright statement to make, really.
@ AC Friday 25th September 2009 00:53
"@James O'Brien - If you have no AV, how do you know that you've not got any viruses or trojans etc?"
No, you've got that the wrong way around, if you _have_ AV, how do you know (... etc ... ).
Answer : you don't, you only know what your AV software tells you. If you rely solely on your AV package to protect and alert you about malware, etc, your threat model is broken.
Google is the new Microsoft
Note: I use firefox and I like, before I used IE and liked it. I even used Chrome and liked it. Reason I now stick to firefox is firebug.
That having said. I am growing tired of Google pushing chrome through others throat. Ever visited youtube with firefox lately or google with IE? Download chrome everywhere. Everyone is entitled to some publicity but does it really need a yellow background?
I thought Google was a cool company.
Now I think Google is a big company as 'evil' as MS.
Having said that I think it's time for some new reg icons.
"At the end of the day they both do the job, so the only real choice is down to the UI"
Some of these standards have been around for more than a decade and MS still can't or won't implement them. That's the problem. It makes web development much harder than it needs to be.
I'm in the end stages of building a huge application for a financial institution, despite fighting tooth and nail for *anything* other than ie6 they refuse because they don't want to support multiple browsers and don't want to update their existing apps to work outside of IE6. This plug-in *could* be a godsend in terms of a performance boost.