The Ministry of Defence has announced a new £150m purchase of hi-tech weapon sights and optics, saying that the new kit will "improve soldier lethality" and "support the British defence industrial base". Serving soldiers have disparaged only a little of the new kit - and much of the money will in fact be spent overseas. New …
will it be on CODMW2?
Reflex sight ftw!!!
All sound pretty good.
Especially the buying it from other countries bit. Just because we have lots of wars and are quite innovative in terms of initial war tech research, doesn't mean we're any good at making stuff.
Supporting British industry, eh?
Canada is almost British, isn't it?
More seriously, I'm more comfortable with buying kit from our allies, which doesn't support British industry, than I am with selling kit to our (future) enemies, which does.
Second Richard 81
Get the best, wherever it's made. Might force British industry to up its game.
Ahh, "rock apes"...
I was going to join them when I was a nipper. When "Top Gun" came out, and everyone wanted to fly fighter planes, I wanted to shoot them down and hopefully get Tom Cruise, even back then - just for what he did to encourage "You've Lost That Loving Feeling" to be sung far too many times in bars. I applied when I was old enough, but during a 4-week taster in my last summer holidays from school they didn't like the fact that I questioned stupid orders, and I didn't like the fact that they tried to give me stupid orders, so we both kinda gave up on the idea. Was fun playing with all the kit, though, especially the guns - much preferred the SLR to the SA80 - you felt like you were actually firing a weapon, and anyone hit by one of those things was NOT gonna get up again!
The SUSAT was a great piece of kit, way, way better than the PoS it was mounted on, which had a list of flaws that would exceed the comment space limit. The grenade-launcher is a good idea, and I'm amazed that they've only taken 40 years to copy the idea from the US after the introduction of the M203 attachment to the M16. With the additional weight of the launcher on the weapon - as well as the additional kit weight of the ammo - I can certainly understand why the troops aren't keen on the additional range-finder as well - but I see the author's point in using for training purposes to estimate elevation / range, be beneficial for that.
Maybe, just maybe, we'll see our troops with everything they need to fight a war by 2025...
common sense ???
all the better to kill our fellow humans with...
and this is common sense?
I THINK NOT.
throw down your weapons. refuse to perpetrate harm and death. and go home.
chances of this comment actually being put up by the reg mods? nil to very slim. why? because our unwise leaders require opinions like mine to be silenced and/or ridiculed as this doesn't support their foolish self-serving agendas..
and before you flame me down telling me how much great stuff we have a result of war-tec, first think about how much better off we would be if we had dedicated all those resources specifically to help and benefit all people and inhabitants of our frail little planet. instead of trying to find better ways to extinguish it. and think about how many people killed in wars would still be alive .
thank you for listening.
Re: common sense ???
Why would you equate Reg mods with the authorities? Don't be daft. I'd rather not deal with the inevitable crap this is going to cause but I'm not going to give in to your persecution fantasies by rejecting your comment. It's a valid opinion and you didn't say a big rude word. Go ahead.
The rest of you - try and be sort of nice and only throw soft objects, please.
Those ignorant of shooting realities
I am... tell me more?
"I'm not going to give in to your persecution fantasies"
What happened to the moderatrix? what did you do with her?
In other, more sensible commentary. It's a "Good Thing" (TM) that the Brits are buying foreign, because the UK Arms industry (From guns to planes) is so bunged up with politicians, senior civil servants and CEO types trying to milk it for all it's worth that anything ordered today will no doubt see a 5 year delay and a 500% increase in costs.
I'd personally love to see someone "in authority" tell these companies that "No, you quoted X for the price and Y for the delivery date and if you're late, you're going to have to pay fines and if you go over budget tough shit, that's your problem"
It's not a huge surprise that they've chosen to fund it from FIST rather than a UOR.
One of* the largest dodges in the MoDs funding is that any UOR that is retained for more than two years has it's value clawed back by the Treasury. As this kit will no doubt be used for more than two years they're paying for it now rather than later.
It's quite a scandal actually, the Treasury get to spout the line "we cover the cost of current operations" while they're quietly clawing back hundreds of millions of pounds from the procurement budget. End result is the MoD paying for kit they never planned to buy while the procurement budget implodes.
* I say one of, as without doubt the largest dodge is the use of Resource Allocation Budgeting at the MoD. All sorts of political budgeting sins have been obfuscated by RAB.
I agree we really should be looking everywhere for our kit to get it bought and into the hands of the people that need it. If it's already been designed and built lets buy that one instead of wasting time designing our own.
Silly arguments about the importance of kit being British cost us a lot of money, maybe for potentially conflict changing assets (like the Type45 and Taranis...I am not saying they are value for money though!) but for something that everyone else has already and we are buying in bulk numbers it should be best on the market.
Reg posting guidelines in a nutshell
1. Valid opinions only.
2. Don't say a big rude word.
Can't say fairer than that.
Re: common sense? (Sillyfellow)
Yes, we poor lowly humans who don't know any better have wars. Boo-frikkin'-hoo.
But since we're having them anyway, maybe we should try and kit out our troops so our side wins, eh? Now that's common sense.
Grenade icon used without a hint of irony.
Do you count as a soft object?
Paris, because she's been chucked lots of times
By name and by nature maybe.. the rather wonderful mods and modettes here keep me smiling yet informed on a daily basis, no mean feat. I would throw soft beer but it comes in hard glasses so I'll just drink it instead.
I always liked the gun that could shoot behind rocks but I'm a bigger fan of gamers flying those armed drones in combat zones. Gives a large percentage of our unemployed something to do that they're actually good at.
Re: common sense ???
Pacifism only works if everyone does it and that is not going to happen. Ask the Dali Lama how that worked for his country.
Mine's the one with the pistol in the pocket just in case.
Re: common sense ???
War is like Microsoft Windows
Originally war felt like the only option. Now there are better alternatives but we still go to war every generation or two/upgrade our copies of Windows every couple of years simply out of force of habit.
Some people have woken up to ask "why are will still doing this?" - most people just don't care.
/Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to get flamed harder than you. AC obviously. Icon was a tossup between flame, joke alert and IT?.
is it just me getting really old or do the soldiers in the picture look about 12
@Sillyfellow (what an apt handle) - read your Kipling
When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."
"The Gods of the Copybook Headings" (1919)
I agree with the troll
More kit to help British people kill foreigners. I don't see how this is progress.
I know, peacekeeping, blah de blah - but the arms trade fair is sick, no two ways about it.
Not to mention how much kit is bought from the Israelis - funding their illegal ethnic cleansing.
Are you French?
That is all.
Not really all that useful
This is not really going to help against road side incendiary devices or against suicide bombers - which seem to be the biggest threats the troops are facing.
...but no, I don't believe in war or in our reasons for having an "eternal war" which seems to be the logical end result of our capitalist society (and was indeed predicted as such over 100 years ago!)
Of Course It'll not arrive till 2011
That gives the companies the time to initiate the other time honoured MOD tradition, trebleing the price, investigating the backhanders to MP's and lastly, use as a political tool "jobs for locals" in specific area's for the next election campaign.... oh and maybe kitting our troops with outdated kit, as by then, gadaffi will have much better tech
I love it when people say stupid things like "chances of this comment actually being put up by the reg mods?" and then get posted.
Also, War is a nessasary evil. Some people cannot be talked too, and war happens when all else has failed. You seem to think we go to war for fun and people fight for the love of killing. That is a worrying view of others.
Re: common sense ???
Actually, if you want to be pragmatic about it, the best way to save the planet would be to remove about 4 billion humans, through war or disease, take your pick. Or is your compassion for life conveniently limited to lifeforms with DNA sufficiently similar to your own? Yup, it's a painful truth, but we humans are the bad guys here, lop off our heads I say. Oh, 'cept mine of course.
Otherwise, good kit, but it is wise giving it to the fifteen year olds in the picture?
@common sense ???
>throw down your weapons. refuse to perpetrate harm and death.
A lovely idea. However, Britain is a large, wealthy industrialised nation, and as well as opening doors of opportunity, it also brings with it responsibilities. We are members of NATO, as well as of the United Nations. As such, if we are called upon to deploy militarily in support of our partners, we must accept.
Now, granted, there are places where I personally believe that our troops could be achieving greater good than they are currently. Peacekeeping and humanitarian operations in Rwanda. Electoral monitoring in West Africa. Support to the civil authorities in the UK, because the emergency services are, in some areas, struggling at present. The presence of a few (unarmed) squaddies as backup to keep back any troublemakers would remove the problem seen a few weeks ago when a lone paramedic refused to enter a bar, fearing for her safety.
Not all of those, you'll note, are conventional military operations. Having worked with a large number of uniformed personnel, both serving and retired, I can say that I strongly believe they'd be up to the challenge of expanding their skill sets, however.
So, on either some varieties of routine ops as suggested above, or contingent ops as (legitimately) decided by NATO or the UN, there is a chance that our armed forces will see combat. I agree that we should attempt to reduce the frequency of this as much as possible, but I also feel that, as a nation, having agreed to send our soldiers, sailors, and airmen, we have a duty to equip and support them as well as possible, to ensure that as many as possible, if not all, come back in the same healthy state of body and mind as that in which they departed.
>Mine's the one with the pistol in the pocket just in case.
And there I thought you were just pleased to see me.
Whilst I agree that our troops should have the best kit available. I cannot agree with the foolish people who love to buy from foreign countries. If we must buy a piece of foreign kit, then have it made here under license. If we had taken that approach in 1940, we'd be speaking German now. I can just see it now.
We need more guns!
But we are skint and can't make them ourselves, the Yanks won't sell them and Europe has been overrun.
Got a white flag anyone?
I do notice that when foreign countries buy European arms, they are always made in their own country so that they have the capability to make more and there is some technology transfer. I also agree with the poster who mentioned the over bureaucratic waste of space this is our arms industry.
So i say buy British made, and keep us all working!
And too those that say, Europe/UK will never be over run, the I'd refer you to history where it has happened/ and been attempted many times in history before. India/China might not always be so friendly in the future.
thank you all.
Thank you Sarah. i'm not new in here as you probably know from many previous contentious comments. it wasn't my intention to equate you (and the other wonderful reg mods) to the 'authorities'. i put that in my comment to try not to be ignored. sorry about that. i hope you understand. (many many previous and similar comments never got posted). so, again. thank you. you know i don't usually behave that way or make such accusations, and indeed have the utmost respect for you and the way you conduct yourself. so again i apologise.
it's not my intention to be a troll and stir up flaming sessions for amusement. i only want to say how i feel about such things so you all know. it's about respecting life in all it's forms.
oh, and no, i'm not french. hehe. i'm a citizen of earth who presently resides in England. i'm actually an african originally from Zimbabwe.
"A gleaming bit of kit,"
Clearly a quote from some muppet in the MOD, or a tame Rodney.
A real Tom would have said: "Gucci bit of kit"...
As a ex resident of Zimbabwe, can you honestly say that those without weapons have not been dispossessed by those with weapons?
Not to be picky...
It's not that difficult to fire the SA80 from some quite bizarre angles, excepting it's weight. It really has very low recoil, especially if you compare it to the yank rifles in their various forms.
Just thought I'd point it out.
Sounds good but....
.... what about the basics that our troops still need, you know the trivial things like body armour, boots and helmets etc.
Sounds too much like the MOD has basically said "here's some kit to help you kill more efficiently but we're not too bothered if you get killed as long as we can recover that kit of course".
Sounds like a nice budget they are using, how many mothballed/non-flight worthy chinnocks could that put in the air to avoid roadside bombs?
More money on keeping our lads alive please, they are already good at their job just a shame there not paid the respect and money they deserve.
Common sense misguided methinks.
Actual I was pleased to see Sarah Bee...
As an evil
maker of very lethal weapons and hearterly laugh at the thought of the death and destruction wrought by the stuff I help to make.. may I say
Actually I work in a small business where 75% of our manufacturing is in medical equipment and for people with disabilities
The military stuff we make gets assembled elsewhere by a couple more companies then exported to the US for the US military because the British MOD is too stingy to buy it.
Without it, 16 people would be out of work, and the medical and disabled stuff would then be made aboard too.
Plus I'd have to watch daytime TV <shudder>
Presumably they bought 4
One for each troop pictured. ;)
many times, it is true that those without weapons have been dispossessed by those with weapons. also many with weapons have been dispossessed by others with weapons.
it's not the weapons that are the problem, it's people's lack of personal ethics regarding life who are the problem.
that's exactly why i said what i did.
we need an end to all this senseless killing. regardless of any rhyme or reason.
if someone threatened or attacked me or my family i would surley defend myself, but never so far as to take life. if it comes down to kill or be killed, then i choose to rather die.
if we all had that approach and ethics, there could be no war. let me be clear that this attitude does not make me a victim or potential victim. because i refuse to be a victim. ever. you'd have to kill me first. and i would forgive you if you did.
Our proud boys need every bit of equipment they can get
To kill conscripted soldiers in Iraq (when they didn't run away), to kill militia with Vietnam era weapons or worse, to get blown up by roadside bombs laid by guerillas that they haven't defeated after 5 years of fighting.
@Marcus Aurelius, you just add to his argument. If the wealthy western countries and former soviet block didn't sell guns to dictators and warlords in Africa then that region would be a lot more stable.
RE: Despair #
Regarding your reference to WWII... Have you heard of Cash and Carry, Destroyers for Bases, and Lend-Lease? I think your implication that British were essentially on their own producing all of their own materiel for WWII is pretty misguided. "The Yanks won't sell them" is simply a patently false statement.
This sin't to say that having domestic materiel production capabilities isn't important, just that we all have allies, and, even when those allies are reluctant, if the need is great enough, usually they will come through to some extent.
Was there an article?
All I saw where hot guys in uniform with sexy weapons. Oh those wacky hormones. I'll have to turn off images and go back and read it again.
Oh gawd... Should I? Shouldn't I?
Only 4 cans so far, might as well give it a go:
Look, sod the Buying British part. Either way it's an outfit designed to screw everyone but the owners. I know we all had lovely cosy images of boiler-suited salt-of-the-earth workers 48 hours a week to produce the bestest shinyest kit for "Our Boys" (TM)
Tel: +44 (0) 1745 588000
Fax +44 (0) 1745 584258
So far so located-in-the-UK.
"[Parent Organisation] Candover is an international private equity firm, with its roots in European buyouts."
http://www.candoverinvestments.com/ <--- just LOOK at the bloke!!! Then do your own digging, as I have no wish to inflict yet more drunken ramblings on Teh Modaratiks or anyone else. I'm off to watch District 9.
The Americans are moving away from under-barrel GL to under-barrel shotguns especially for urban conflicts, with different rounds for door busting and solid slugs for vehicles perhaps these should be considered too.
Confusing photograph, that.
Is the second soldier from the left in the picture a woman with really hairy forearms or a man with a really effeminate face?
To be perfectly fair here..
Humanity is fighting far fewer wars than they used to. With the advancements in global communications and the economy, we're now capable of diffusing disagreements between countries, or even states/territories quite efficiently. Your ideal world based on pacifism is slowly being realised, so sit back down on your pink fluffy chair.
In the meantime, our soldiers still need to be kitted out in the best so we can PROTECT our nation from those humans that don't seem to like being pacifists as well. Whether you agree with the reason for the wars or not is a different matter entirely, and as such should be part of a different debate.
Not "made in Britain"?
Didn't Thales buy a few British companies over the years? Wasn't there a building alongside the A3 in Surrey that used to have something like 'Racal' or 'Racal-Decca' on it that now says Thales? And was there not a story on El Reg a few days ago that mentioned a Thales factory in deepest Wales?
Much of the kit gets designed over here, then some Johnny Foreigner shows up and the Management decide to make a quick buck flogging their shares (and, coincidentally, the IP rights) and the once-proud English manufacturing industry ends up a shell of what it once was...
Other names to conjure with include Hawker Aircraft, sold to Bombardier by BAe as being a "non-core business unit" since they only made executive jets (even though they kept their Property Management company, and Rover who made *cars*), Westland sold to Agusta (who have since sold the results of the British Experimental Rotor Program to practically everyone else!) and numerous electronics companies that *used to be* profitable and responsive until they were sold off to foreign "investors"...
Wot, no rail gun?
This announcement is brought to you by the Number 10 press relations department.
Fair, is it guv, all we got is these here rubber band powered slings, with ping pong balls for projectile.
I want one of those scopes to get a closer look at Paris.
A Bitter Pill to Swallow ..... for Relief
"Admittedly this is much less common nowadays with the shift from Northern Ireland to Afghanistan." ..... And what is the Active Role of the Military Minded in a Peaceful Civilisation and New Executive Administration/Legislative Assembly as is Northern Ireland. Does Peace produce a Problem for Military Engagement and Render their Services Redundant and Destructive?
Why did you have to drag Israel into this conversation?
If we are being fair, the big issue over there was caused by the British (and friends) telling one bunch of people it was perfectly okay for them to take control over a land that was already inhabited. Pointing the finger at the Israelis for throwing tear gas and rubber bullets at kids throwing petrol bombs, and sending tanks looking for rocket-launch sites is a ridiculous over-simplification of the situation.