Windows Genuinely Pointless

Just Pirate a corp edition.

Bother?

Beside the false positives (which quite rightly should be placed front and center in a lawsuit) I'm having trouble seeing the problem with WGA. People want the software without paying, so the seller checks to see that the software is paid for, at the cost of a few packets of data every day. If you don't want to pay for your OS, go *nix. The misrepresentation aside, I totally sympathize with MS on this one (and it's not a total misrepresentation either as not-paid-for commercial software shouldn't get any updates, up to and including security - but that's another discussion). You have plenty of choice. Use it.

Icon is *not* an inducement to anything - just a random penguin walking by... :-)

And WGA doesn't stop piracy anyway

Like all good anti piracy measures, it's people with a legitimate licence who are hardest hit by it.

Such measures are inevitably cracked, with the necessary tools and tricks being shared freely on the internet for anyone willing to look.

Meanwhile it's the legitimate users who have to put up with the validations/copyright warnings/DRM time and time again having paid for a licence.

OH FFS !!!

Will these little shits stfu !!

WGA isnt great i dont like it just because it is simply a pain in the arse !!!

If they really want to do something usefull go sue EA now that is some serious spyware !!!

and again trumpeting the standard old line

WTF about apple ! disabling the hardware e.g. Iphone ??

The problem with WGA

is that a perfectly legal copy of windows can be considered good one day, then WGA calls it bogus the next and then says it's fine 3 days later. Why does WGA check every time you boot up? Shouldn't it store info and cross reference that info when changes are made only? That would definitely save the headaches with false positives from MS server issues because most users probably wouldn't connect during those downtimes. Not to mention the network traffic that would be reduced and server loads reduced. *shrugs* It's probably too difficult to store data any more for this kind of stuff - at least for MS.

That said, I'm still keeping my windows installs due to the software that I haven't figured out how to get to run in WINE yet.

Pain in arse?

I have WGA running on 3 computers here and to be fair it is invisible to me, even when running off the net. Its not like it was disabling my computer or bugging me for clicks. It seems to me that to sue over it you have to prove some kind of harm. Probably that's why those suits are going nowhere.

@Lionel Baden

"WGA isnt great i dont like it just because it is simply a pain in the arse !!!"

Isn't that the definition of Nagware?

Did you manage fine before WGA? My guess is that you did.

Has it stopped bootlegged software? My guess is that it didn't.

Here's a question for you - why is it that ALL software doesn't come with a corresponding annoyance? The reason? It's a complete pita! That's pretty much what this case seems to be about.

WGA certainly has nothing to do with the security of your machine (contrary to the MS promises you read when you installed it!)

So, let's get this straight:

It tells lies to get you to install it.

It reports your IP address to MS daily.

You can't easily uninstall it.

Isn't that spyware?!?

"Will these little shits stfu !!"

No, they've taken your comment that it's a "pain in the arse" and they're doing something about it... and more power to them!

Electronista seems kind of clueless..

...which makes El Reg clueless by association.

- IP address? You don't say! El Reg had mine the instant I read this article.

- For retail licenses, if WGA can't phone home, it doesn't care. As long as you're activated, you're good. It will not lock you out.

- For OEM licenses, WGA does a local check to see if the right product key is still in the firmware, and if so, it never phones home.

- Volume licenses do not permanently activate in Vista/Win7! WGA requires a check-in with a license server (@ MS or on a LAN) every 30 days. You can rearm this x3 for 120 max.

- The only think WGA phones home is a hash of non-personal stuff like your OS version and product key. Technically, the product key belongs to MS anyway. Yes, that info does identify your copy of windows, but not you or your computer... when someone else (or lots of people...) have the same hash, they have the same product key. That shouldn't happen ;)

You send more information than that when you activate windows, such as your hardware hash, but that info is only kept for a couple of months. After that, you can actually reactivate with the same key on another machine without calling MS.. but do it too much and WGA will notice.

Oh, and lots and lots of professional and shareware software phones home periodically, and did so long before MS used product activation. If you don't like it, use free/open software.

Malware.

You buy a PC with a one-year warranty. One year and a few weeks later, you get a massive lightning-induced mains spike that fries your PSU and your Motherboard. So you nip down to your local hardware shop and buy functionally equivalent replacements, and a couple of hours later your PC boots again ...

except it doesn't. According to MS it is no longer the same PC, and they expect you to pay for another copy of Windows in order to be allowed to continue using it. That's more than you spent on the repairs. No amount of arguing with the man in India (on a premium-rate phone line, to add insult to injury) accomplishes anything. To be fair, this happened to me some years back, so just maybe they behave better today? Anyone replaced their motherboard recently?

In my book malware is something that is installed under false pretences, which cannot be cleanly removed in a simple and well-documented manner. On this basis WGA is indeed malware. Also, I'd argue it's illegal under UK law. You were led to believe that it was a security update, which it was not. You therefore had a reasonable expectation that it could be rolled back like any other security update, which it cannot. And later, it deprives you of the use of your system until you pay Microsoft again for something you have already purchased, which at best is an unfair contract term. At worst, this is fraud followed by extortion, in the criminal sense.

WGA pointless

anyone can crack that little piece of shit googleing the right obvious words, downloading the patch, instaling and rebooting

usually take around 6 mins. considering that download a pirated version and/or install is around 1-2 hours min, it is not a big deal.

if the whole point of it is to detect pirated versions,it fails. it is to detect counterfeited one, then why does it need to be more than a single check thing every few month?.

Re: Malware

Yes, WGA is indeed malware.

In our case, WGA disabling our copies of XP didn't even require a change in hardware, simply a row between Microsoft and the Taiwanese manufacturer of our PCs. Microsoft claimed that the manufacturer had paid for the OEM licences at the wrong price for PCs sold in our geographic region, and -- two years on -- retroactively invalidated the product keys on our OEM XP installations.

Our response was simple -- install Linux, and resolve to avoid Microsoft in the future.

I remember WGA biting Microsoft themselves

At a *major* launch for Microsoft and Intel, several of the MS-provided machines *would not boot* because of WGA insisting that they had to phone Microsoft servers over the internet.

This was a problem, because they were in a field at the time.

Thus MS had to pay for a satellite internet link in order to activate their *own machines*. Aligning the dish took a long time as well due to nearby trees...

More recently, I've had to reactivate several machines that are designed to *never* go on the internet after hardware failures. Thankfully, MS UK happily gave me the long strings of digits to do so without much fuss.

However, it cost my employer several hours of my time as a simple 'swap the board' job turned into a 'swap the board, wait for WGA to complain, call Microsoft, sit on hold, talk to support, type in a long number'.

Oddly enough, in many countries one can buy fully working "copies" of Windows for a dollar or two quite easily. So it doesn't actually work.

I have to say ...

I'm fully in agreement that this is a bad bit of software.

As other said, they LIED about it's function, It has nothing at all to do with protecting the users and has no security function for users. So users did not give "informed consent" when it was installed.

If you don't install it, my understanding is that you stop being able to install security updates. Since no-one in their right mind would go without those, it's effectively been installed under duress.

And once it's installed, it sends information about your system to a third party outside of the EU. We don't know what information, we just have to trust Microsoft that it doesn't include personal or sensitive or private information, and we have to trust them that it will be handled fairly. So we have no idea what information or what it will be used for, and it's send outside of the EU. SO that's another infringement of the UK DPA.

And of course, it gives Microsoft the ability to remotely deprive you of the use of your property - with no advanced notice, no third party oversight, and no appeals process. Under English law that would be considered an unfair contract term.

I did try complaining about this several years ago - needless to say the authorities weren't interested.

@Malware

umm yes I have. Other than having the computer throw errors about new hardware for a half hour and then the activation link bug me for a day or two. reactivated windows over the web and all was well. Even spent time cleaning the registry of all my old bits of hardware. Could have imaged yes but the same problem would have cropped up.

Grenade cause I want to blow something up

WGA + activation

Shortly after buying this computer that I am typing this reply on the hard drive died and I got a replacement under guarantee after loading XP got a message to put in the activation code phoned Microsoft in London I think it was got the code.No demand for money was made,and no I did not tell them it was a fairly new computer still under guarantee .

That's Why I Binned Vista

I run it on a Parallels VM. The installation was a standard (expensive) MSDN one.

Every time I upgraded Parallels, it would chalk up a "new system" for WGA. After the second time it called me a thief, I just binned it, and use a friends' computer to test my sites in Vista.

I have no problem with software developers protecting against piracy (I am one, and our software has anti-piracy protection). However, there's no excuse for the hoops M$ makes you jump through, just so they can humiliate you.

http://blimptv.blogspot.com/2007/11/vista-sucks.html

@Nigel et al

I have moved mobos several times on my current copy of XP, and it has always been painless. I did have an initial installation issue, called a toll free number, was given a string of digits, and it has been flawless ever since...and that was very early in XP's lifespan until now.

WGA IS a security update in my book - cracked versions of Windows are ripe with embedded malware (yes, those disks you can buy in Asia for £2 often have it pre-installed, as do many torrents!), and MS insisting that people who want to buy Windows use legit copies stops worms and viruses from spreading to the overall community. That was incidentally MS's own line, and it does make sense to me. The fewer cracked copies, the better support from MS, the fewer pre-installed malwares, and the better the overall ecology of Windows machines.

I mean, BEFORE MS got serious about stopping malware (and they are much better now), the entire industry SCREAMED BLOODY MURDER at them for not making it more secure. MS has gotten better with security fixes, they insitututed WGA to try and stop cracked copies they could not support (especially as many cracked copies could not/ would not install updates anyway for fear of breaking their free copy!), and they have released malware detection and removal tools at little or no charge. Compared to where they were 10 years ago, that IS an improvement, and WGA is part of it. And frankly, we all gain from it, because our MS-centric desktop computing environment is getting more secure...

I don't thing Bill usually deserves a halo (except for his and Melissa's charity work), but in this instance I will give him the benefit of one...

WGA == malware?

It walks like malware, and quacks like malware - it goes sniffing around your computer doing things you'd rather it didn't, dials home, borks your system, and takes a bit of fiddling to get rid of.

WGA was the straw that finally made me go the way of the penguin. An OS is supposed to not get in your way of doing what you're trying to do with your computer, and after a couple of false positives from WGA my mind was made up.

So many icons seem appropriate - Fail, Pirates, Black Helicopter, Big Brother, Penguin, Evil Bill...

@Pain In Arse

"I have WGA running on 3 computers here and to be fair it is invisible to me, even when running off the net. Its not like it was disabling my computer or bugging me for clicks. It seems to me that to sue over it you have to prove some kind of harm. Probably that's why those suits are going nowhere."

Yet another person with the arrogance to assume that if something works for HIM, the problems 30 million other people have cannot possibly be significant.

Hey, guess what? MY notebook battery hasn't blown up. All you folks missing limbs and suffering third degree burns are just whining about nothing.

@Nigel 11

I am using the same OEM copy of XP that came pre-installed on a computer I bought about 5 PCs ago. Since then I've installed it every time I upgraded (and three of my upgrades replaced all of the internals - motherboard, graphics, CPU etc.). I have never had any problem, and if I did, there is a toll free number to phone and you just tell them you have upgraded, and they unlock it, just like that!

It's clear you're talking out of your arse. Was this a hypothetical scenario that you just made up based on your expectations and not experience?

Although WGA has never caused me trouble, never in fact noticed it or had it interfere in any way, it does annoy me that it was advertised as an important security update; it wasn't really made clear what it was actually for, or what it would do, and that I disagree with.

WGA - totally pointless

My three children all use XP (my wife and I wouldn't touch it - we use OS X). Two of the copies are legal, one pirated.

Can you guess which ones cause the problems? That's right, both legal copies have had problems installing add-on software or updates caused by WGA. The pirated copy works, and has always worked, perfectly.

Can someone remind me again why I should want to pay M$ and what exactly the "Advantage" of WGA is?