They should be rewarded!
Two people have today been charged with offences under the Data Protection Act for leaking the BNP's membership list last year. The pair will appear before magistrates in Nottingham on 1 September, following a joint investigation by Dyfed-Powys Police and the Information Commissioner's Office. They were arrested in December …
They should be rewarded!
If you read their manifesto, it looks more like left wing socialism, without the international bit.
"Two people have today been charged with offences under the Data Protection Act for leaking the BNP's membership list last year"
Good I hate left wing extremists like this who have issues with democracy and freedom of speech
If you've done nothing wrong you should have nothing to hide. Not my opinion, but the traditional opinion of so many on the extreme right wing. Why should a body that puts itself forward as a mainstream political party be so nervous of publishing its membership list? We all know the answer, of course.
The whistle-blowers should get a medal. The list is already out of date - hopefully their defence counsel will be checking how many people involved in the prosecution are Party Members - to the extent of demanding answers to that question under oath if necessary.
Do different laws apply when the BNP are the victims? Do normal people not matter as much as BNP members? These people are facing criminal charges yet every week some civil servant or other moron gives away huge amounts of information on the general population and gets away with it.
How happy they'll be with their own details making the main news?
I'm sure they'll say they were "fighting for human rights", when in reality it's "we believe in human rights, unless you're on a list of people we don't like.. Then we don't believe you have any".
Which is, of course, the way all the major atrocities in the world are started.
. . . the perps done good.
How about we post a list of anything/everything you'd rather not be public knowledge. Like number of times visiting strip clubs, buying porn, whether you smoked a spliff in Uni etc etc. Everyone has at least one thing they don't want everyone in the world to know.
People have a right to privacy, especially ordinary members of the public who haven't put themselves in the public eye (celebrities put themselves there and court the publicity, right up until the point they believe they are too famous for it).
I have never understood the massive double standards that so many people have. Complain about the level of police surveillance, but applaud this list being published.
Anything to stop those scum.
"If you read their manifesto, it looks more like left wing socialism, without the international bit."
You may want to start reading here:
Yes I suspect they are just as "left wing" as the National Socialist Party in Germany was.
Yes we know the reason why they are nervous about posting their membership list, the number of members who lost their jobs as a result of that publication are a pretty good one. Maybe we should make sure that no employment tribunal judges are members of the Labour Party, surely that would be a conflict of interest? Either all political party memebership is banned for public sector employees or it's banned for none of them, you can't have your cake and eat it.
As for the vigilante attacks on people on that list, all I can say is that the perpetrators should look hard at the irony of the situation.
@John 186 at 17:15
If some sanctimonious antidemocratic little tosser and self-appointed guardian of righteousness from the UAF -- sorry, outraged and concerned member of the public -- is likely to put a brick through your window, post shit through your letterbox, or phone your wife and kids up at home and scream obscenities at them, then I suspect you'd be just a little bit circumspect about advertising your membership of the BNP and your contact details in the public domain.
You might think they deserve that. Then again, you might think Tories deserve that sort of treatment. I don't know. I think their candidates and openly declared activists ought to be opposed through normal political processes. As to the ordinary members, unless they are engaged in criminality then leave them alone. It's called democracy.
There's a big difference between socialism and national socialism. Pretty much the entire political spectrum in fact.
these people should be getting medals - would the police had been so interested if it was a bunch of environmentalists/anarchists/animal rights/etc?
"They should be rewarded."
No, they shouldn't. Just because somebody has differing political views which you find distasteful does not mean we should allow them to break the law when they feel like it.
Besides, they were ex-BNP members, not some kind of heroic secret infiltrators.
"I hate left wing extremists like this"
Er, they were BNP members (i.e. right wing extremists) who fell out with the party leadership, but don't let that get in the way of your socialist-bashing.
'As for the vigilante attacks on people on that list...'
There is NO recorded and verified instance of a physical attack that occurred as a result of the release of the list. The only thing that got close was a car being set on fire up the street from a BNP member, who immediately claimed it was an attack, only for his claim to be spoiled by a local BNP councillor who stated that such things were always happening in that area.
Having been the recipient of numerous offensive and worrying telephone and email death threats from members of the BNP because of my anti-factist work, I can understand people's concerns about the rights and wrongs of publishing such a list. However, BNP members (including officers/former officers of the party) have contributed pictures and details of anti-fascists to the nazi Redwatch site for years, in the sure and certain knowledge that Redwatch encourages direct violence against the people on its pages. Funny how BNP members were never concerned about that.
But then all funny things are only funny because we're glad it isn't us who has to deal with it.
I do wonder how they caught them though.
the problem is BNP members are discriminated against in the UK.
So, they cannot join the police, military, teaching, or any public service, as such they don't want that list out there.
It is because of discrimination, and prejudice, and that may have been part of the reason for the leak, it is an unjust law that discriminates against people because of political affiliation.
The BNP should look into declaring independence from the UK, take their land and remove it from UK control, because they can never benefit from the UK government under these laws. It applies to quite a few groups, and it would be peaceful way of doing things.
Democracy is not happening in the UK, it seems to be some sort of Fascist Doublethink that is occurring, antifascists quite often strike me as being quite fascist in their thinking and ways, it is not all about race, discrimination on thoughts is even worse.
Why people cannot just see that it is about freedom, and the responsibility of not infringing on other's freedom is beyond me.
But it seems that there is a type of person, who will break the Golden Rule no matter the affiliation, and they tend to latch onto the most powerful group, be that Communists, English Law, Nazis, Hippies, BMA, Luddites it doesn't really matter the name, what matters is what they try and do with the powerful group to attack another group.
The truth is a lot of people are selfish, and altruism towards others is only valid if they agree with them, and the precursor to that is them finding a group they think is powerful. It is all a bit sad really, when the simple and obvious one is freedom.
I don't know why people say the BNP are EXTREME RIGHT? too much TV? They are extreme left with a twist. The state-run BNP are nothing but a honey trap, It's Common Purpose who are the grave danger.
I have no sympathy whatsoever with the political aims of the BNP but these so called "whistle blowers" deserve to be severely punished. What they did was utterly disgraceful.
If you disagree with the BNP's aims, then oppose them by open political and democratic means, NOT by underhand personal attacks on individual members.
Supposing this was a list of scientists involved in animal research, or a list of doctors who perform abortions, or a list of sex offenders, or a list of drug users, or a list of prostitutes, a list of homosexuals, or any one of a myriad of other groups you might disagree with? All with their home addresses posted to the internet and an implicit open invitation to throw a brick through their front window (or worse) if you don't like them.
That's is the mentality of McCarthyism and witch burning and has absolutely NO place in a modern civilised society.
2 disks holding 21million peopels names go missing. No one found.
1 Membership list of an obscure party with unpleasant political views. Arrests under the DPA.
I guess that's the Police in the UK. Only investigate simple crimes.
Freedom of speech includes allowing the speech of people you (and I) might not like.
But if the BNP feel so victimsed by this law perhaps they should try a legal challenge. That is one of the purposes of a legal system.
"If you've done nothing wrong... the traditional opinion of so many on the extreme right wing". Bullshit. Why do so many people now assume that anything authoritarian or otherwise unpleasant is a "right wing" thing? It is the creed of the LEFT that the state must run everything, and that individual rights are subservient to the demands of the state. Ask a marxist - it's part of their philosophy.
Or does John think the Stasi etc were right-wing?
With most of the groups on the banned list, the reason they're not permitted many public offices (Police for one example) is because the views of their self declared political beliefs are incompatible with the role of said office.
It would be like putting a member of the Pirate Party in charge of copyright enforcement in Sweden for example - they may well be able to do the job perfectly well, but their political beliefs would be likely to compromise their dedication.
I personally have no issue whatsoever with BNP members - we live in a democracy, they're entitled to believe what they want. I work with at least one. HOWEVER I would take issue if they were a police officer as it would call into question their impartiality whenever an issue of race/religion came up.
Ahh cheers for that link its quite educational... if a little tricky to read.
Anyway, whilset I am opposed in general principle to the BNP, I do think outlawing political partys is a dangerus idea.
I would rather see BNP not 'discriminated' against (yes I get the irony), and the indeviduals who break the law be heavly punished with support of BNP leaders. i.e. Mr Bobby hunting down and nailing members who post peoples info onto sites in the hope of them reciving phsical harm.
The problem I see with the descrimination against the BNP is it makes them 'special', which is not a status I am comfortable with. If you can not have an open debate with the BNP then you can not easly challenge there assertions. If most of the BNP members do not appear on the BNP role for fear of lossing there jobs then you will never know who is a member, nor can you then ask them why they support such a party and what there views are.
With that said I did roll on the floor laughing my ass off when the list was published. However once you stop laughing you relise that if it goes unpunished then it has effectlvy eaten away at your own right to privacy and suddenly its not just laughing at bigots arguing as it effects you and yer kin.
On a side note, I would like to see England with a 'local' parlement, much like scotland and wales, as I think to do otherwise is to feed partys like the BNP, who will gain support from the disenfranchised.
And what happens to the recipients of these stolen items?
They too should be prosecuted.
Car or CD no difference.
"The BNP should look into declaring independence from the UK, take their land and remove it from UK control"
Sure. All the land they have that belong to them and not the crown. And let's give the government a few moments to remove all their stuff, like asphalt, hospitals, schools and universities.
Mr Cartledge is out of bed again!
Seriously, if you believe the crap that you posted, you must have escaped from a lunatic asylum.
'That probably means they're getting away with it...Although these so-called "anti-fascists" sounds just as repugnant and stupid as the BNP'
Whatever you say...
Just look at the 'Angel-faced racist aged 12 - Girl burns golly at BNP's Red, White and Blue' story on Lancaster Unity, then come back and talk sense.
It's a conspiracy!!
so you believe in democracy, except when it disagrees with your ideas, the UAF are a greater risk to democracy than the BNP will ever be.
when a government officer leaves data on a train, all the comments are 'strung 'im up' and 'cruxifictions to good for 'em' but when its bnp data its alright??
Why do some people consider it acceptable to publish a list of BNP members but cry out in horror at the thought of someone revealing their political leanings?
Why would someone want to have a list of BNP members?
It's not like firebombing the homes of (alleged/suspected/ex-)BNP members is any different from firebombing the homes of non-"whites" or those involved in animal testing, is it? And last I heard, it's still illegal to discriminate against someone on racial, religious or political grounds - when it suits those in power, anyway.
It always amuses me to see the anti-BNP protesters shouting about how *everyone* has the right to say or do what they like - except, of course, the BNP or anyone else who disagrees with them.
I may not agree with everything *you* think or say, but I will defend your right to say it even so - the corrollary of which is that I, too, have the right to think or say what I want, even if you do not like it. Either everyone is equal, or nobody is.
At the moment, some *are* more equal than others.
Too true, I've been saying this for years. Their economic policies (yeah, right) have far more in common with the Soviet Union under Stalin than Germany under Hitler.
As for the racist side, ask a Cossack or an Armenian if they think that the right have a monopoly on this one.
I reckon they've been flagged as right wing for the same reason that the left have a nasty habit of airbrushing Stalin and Beria's excesses. i.e. the "right on" crowd with the right=bad, left=good blinkers on.
There is a difference between being a supporter/activist of a party is standing in public elections with the express desire of wanting to make laws to govern people and visiting strip clubs.
.. Be called spot the BNP members.
No your thinking linearly. The fact is extreme socialism and national socialism are almost 360 degrees out of phase, but that also means they are very close, which of course why they hate each other. It is a lot easier to hate something a little different from yourself because you so understand there viewpoint.
Even Hitler said that socialists could easily become good party members. He reserved his special measures for the liberals and intellectuals who he knew would always be against him
"the problem is BNP members are discriminated against in the UK.
So, they cannot join the police, military, teaching, or any public service, as such they don't want that list out there."
Yes, there is a reason for this. Its a racist party, with a racist manifesto. By joining, you ARE saying "I hate the darkies". Could you trust a copper, soldier, teacher or public servant who is a member of a racist organisation to be impartial?
Bigoted idiots should not be trusted.
...or who thinks that the Left are actually worse.
Remind me, upon which planet do you reside? It ain't Earth, that's for sure.
but they ARE a legally accepted party with representatives in the EU, just cause they aren't well liked doesn't mean that they are not entitled to the same protection as all other parties, or if not can we start culling Labour MP's as they seem to be disagreeable to people at the minute?
"but they ARE a legally accepted party with representatives in the EU, just cause they aren't well liked doesn't mean that they are not entitled to the same protection as all other parties, or if not can we start culling Labour MP's as they seem to be disagreeable to people at the minute?"
yes, the list givers should get done for that, thats equality in the eyes of the law, thats fine. What the BNP bleat was about was "waaaa!! we are not allowed to be coppers, etc, waaaaa!" and I cleared stated why, that the BNP is a racist party for racists.
If Labour suddenly said "No Jocks, Micks or Taffs", they would be racist too, and deserve the same treatment the BNP get.
As I said before, anyone who joins the BNP is basically saying "I hate the darkies me, stwing em up, send em back on the banana boat, etc, etc". And the translation for retards is anyone who joins the BNP supports racists and racist policy, and thus is a racist.
Isn't there a distinction to be found beyond Left/Right politics and Fascism/Liberalism?
After all, aren't there such political concepts as Liberal Right or Fascist Left? I think some of the debate here has been bogged down in a very simplistic view of Left=Liberal and Right=Fascist.
"There is a difference between being a supporter/activist of a party is standing in public elections with the express desire of wanting to make laws to govern people and visiting strip clubs."
Are we talking about the BNP or the Labour party now ?
Besides which, there is no difference in whether I support a legitimate political party and whether I visit a strip club, my right to privacy in both cases stands.