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back to article Microsoft banks on Windows 7 double holiday hit

Microsoft has enlisted the dedicated cheerleadership of IDC to write a report that says how Windows 7 will boost employment and revenue for the IT industry as a whole - and for companies in the Microsoft partner ecosystem in particular. The software giant paid IDC to produce exactly the same kind of reports during 2006 on …

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Linux

Beat this, Linux

"each $1 spent on Windows 7 will yield $10.21 in hardware sales, $4.43 in software sold, and $3.88 in services revenue."

Here is the challenge for Linux.

Here is the opportunity for Linux.

It's not about the technology, Linux is more than capable of doing the job.

It's about getting the Microsoft-centric ecosystem out of their addiction to Windows-derived revenue, and onto the "value add" of actually serving their customers business needs with relevant cost-effective 'solutions', rather than the resellers outsourcers consultants etc serving the continuous upgrade treadmill from their present masters in Redmond.

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FAIL

Not many comments on this story. . ?

Where are all the LINUX fanboys decrying the evil empire?

Oh, probably recompiling the kernels of EVERY LINUX system in order to mitigate the EIGHT year vulnerability that may allow complete takeover of their systems. . .

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/14/critical_linux_bug/

It's a funny thing, Karma.

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E 2

Windows 7

will also repair the financial bust, pay your mortgage, increase macro-economic efficiency, lower factor costs across the board, enable sustained manufacturing output at better than 100% of capacity, cause NORK nuke tests to fail, comprehensively trounce Linux, change Torsvalds' mind, bring the USA Republican party back into contact with earth and reality, induce the PRC to actually be democratic, bring peace to Iraq, bring peace in Palestine, remind Likud and it's far right partners that land promises emitted by burning bushes are not admisable in court, cause such a melting of the hearts of Bush & Blair that both will hand themselves over to the UN war crimes tribunal, eliminate corruption globally, and help you achieve orgasm every time.

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Grenade

@AC 21:54

Shorely you mean Internet Explorer 6?

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Anonymous Coward

XP sales were probably bundled in with Vista

I remember PC's being shipped with Vista labels but with XP installed under the downgrade scheme. I'm willing to bet they were counted as Vista sales

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Flame

Linux = fail

You will never see wholesale deployments of Linux in major organizations, because, despite its flaws MS is Quick, stable, and scalable

I am working within the animation industry industry at the moment, and a lot of smaller studios have *nix boxes for their rendering, but everything else is PC, and Mac.

What I am seeing now, is Mac is losing ground to PC, because Mac opensource solutions to problems, suck.

Samba can't do anything near what AD can, So I am seeing shops move to AD servers and file servers, because, they do the job, and I can install them in 2 hrs.

With a *nix box, its 2 hrs of install + 8+ hrs or bugs, kernel recompiles, strange issues, driver hunting, hacking, kicking, screaming.

Not to mention all the app compatibily issues. If you wanted to run a *nix solution in a large or medium business, then you need to retest and re write a whole mess of apps. The business case AGAINST spending that money is HUGE. You spend half the money on a decient BOFH, and have solid stable network.

When they are paying me to be there by the hour, open source just looses on the numbers game. Any gain in no cost software, is lost with support time.

Government deployments don't count, because government departments have HUGE budgets for stuff like this, and never have to worry about being profitible. They can spend all they like on app writing, testing and creation.

I hate MS's buggy, ugly OS as much as the next man, but from a BUSINESS point of view, MS is a better choice.

If a better option comes up, then I will reccomend it. I have quiet optimism for Google OS, but I will see what she looks like, with the lights on first.

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FAIL

Re: Not many comments on this story. . ?

Normally I couldn't be arsed but I'm pissed: You might want to read and understand the vuln you are on about. Many (most??) systems are not actually affected by this. I am not a real expert in this area because I've only 12 odd years experience of Linux. It seems that there is a way of poking code into page zero and then pointing the kernel at it to execute it. However on non SE Linux systems (which ignore a certain parameter) that parameter defines the lowest page that may contain executable code. At least some kernels eg Red hat Enterprise, Ubuntu and Gentoo set the lowest page at at least 4096 (ie not zero).

So not exactly EVERY LINUX needs recompiling per se.

I'd be the first to admit I am a Linux fanboi, but I'm also a *BSD fanboi (especially where PFSense is concerned) and even a Windows fanboi - my company (and I mean MY) is a Gold Partner. Its tools for the job and the customer requirement.

Oh and you can't even be arsed to post by your name - anon coward is well named - TWAT!!

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I call foul

"Samba can't do anything near what AD can" - with that single quote you say so much ...

... that describes your ignorance.

Where shall I start? AD is a directory and that's it. It's not a particularly good one either (come on, get me started)

Samba is a, well it is a lot of things, starting with (pre. v4) a domain member or non domain server with the ability to export shares across the network and convince the other end that it talks "windows". It is also able to do things that a MS system is not able to, for example sync non dom browse lists across networks. It is virtually infinitely flexible in many other ways that MS never thought of or intended. Samba is also now the de facto SMB test suite (used by MS as well as much)

SMB !=AD

"With a *nix box, its 2 hrs of install + 8+ hrs or bugs, kernel recompiles, strange issues, driver hunting, hacking, kicking, screaming."

Most Linux users don't roll their own kernel. At least they have the choice to to though. Do you even know what a compiler is or how it works?

As for driver issues - people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. For example my brother ended up throwing away a printer that Vista didn't like (when he upgraded from XP) because HP didn't chuck in a new driver. My HP ScanJet 5100 scanner still works under Linux (Vista gets a shitty on).

If the sentence quoted above is your experience of Linux then I'm sorry. Can I help? mailto:golf-echo-romeo-delta-echo-sierra-juliet@blueloop.net

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*nix vs M$

If Linux was ready for the mainstream enterprise, then because of Vista it would have been deployed. Unfortunately it is not the case. I love the penguin, but there are too many compatibility and apps availability issues.... Not the OS fault but more the hardware manufacturers and the apps development companies.

Windows 7 will shut the opening created by the Vista flop, because W7 is a good OS.

As per injecting extra $$ in the economy, Windows 7 certainly will.

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FAIL

@combat wombat

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Funny stuff!

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Bronze badge

With a C: drive...

It still is MS-DOS under an assumed name. As long as there are drive letters it will always be that way. Maybe a 32 bit version but still MS-DOS.

A rose (a stinky one at that) by any other name is garlic to me.

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Coat

Yawn

Welcome to non-event of the decade brought to you by MS spin masters.

Getting my coat and going off to read something more interesting.

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Anonymous Coward

@ Windows 7 - and Linux

@ WIndows 7, you forgot to mention that it will swap your wife for a younger model :-)

As for Linux, sorry, I've had it. There is a nice silent encroachment on Outlook's integration postion by MobileMe and other setups integrating calendars from anything that moves, but Outlook is still the heart of most mobile devices - there is no real Open replacement, and that stops IMHO any move to a Linux desktop dead in its tracks. It's the best lock-in MS has. I can throw out Exchange for Scalix or Zimbra, but at the CLIENT end you only have Outlook. Maybe there is something better on the Mac?

What's more, if you look at "solutions" such Thunderbird they have stunning features (I live the search folders and the speed with which you can find anything), but do not address the most basic needs of anyone running a mobile setup: decent calendar integration and the ability to archive files offline, yet use them (we're assuming a decent backup here, of course)

Thunderbird still has NIL ability to perform a function that is trivial in Outlook: create an offline archive and drop all the email in there that you have to keep for some reason but don't want to have cluttering up the server (doing this also speeds up Outlook). It's a killer feature IMHO, and I'm frankly rather puzzled why it doesn't exist.

Having said that, why bother? Outlook does just fine - at least, the 2003 version.

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Pirate

Already licensed 100m seats of Software Assurance

And the product isn't even shipped yet.

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Megaphone

W Ankers

ac@21.54 - its several years since I recompiled my kernel, I've probably forgotten how to do it.

The vulnerability that was discovered after 8 years and fixed in a day or so (as opposed to a vulnerability that MS were informed about 2 years ago and did nothing - see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/14/ms_zero_day_long_gestation/) was taken care of by a simple update.

Combat Wombat: "You will never see wholesale deployments of Linux in major organizations, because, despite its flaws MS is Quick, stable, and scalable"

So, companies like Google you don't consider a 'major organisation'? Likewise Yahoo, IBM? Conoco, Cisco, Panasonic, Toyota US, US Army/federal Courts/Post OFFice, HP - and all those piddling little organisations.

I run linux on a HP Ipaq 3900. The US DOE runs it on its 129600-core Roadrunnner blade. What was that you said about scaleability?

Anybody that has touched Linux in the past 5+ some years will know you're talking bollocks about installation and drivers - MS now has a bigger problem with drivers - remember HP inkjets and Vista?

Good that you have 'a quiet optimism' for Google OS aka 'linux'.

Leon Festinger - you were right.

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Obvious troll is obvious

I'm not rebuilding my kernels. Mine aren't affected by this one (see gerdesj's post above).

Enjoy the new paint job on Vista, Wintards.

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Flame

Stupid economics

I'm tired of this "X creates Y jobs" thing. Jobs are not necessarily a good thing. The economy is driven by overall wealth, not number of jobs. Wealth comes from productivity, which basically means moving money around faster. If MS releases a new operating system, and it takes hundreds of thousands of new jobs to support it, that is not a *benefit* to the economy, that is a *drain*.

On the other hand, if the new operating system is simple to use, configure, and administer, then everyone can get on with doing what they do. Accountants can punch numbers, programmers can program, etc. Everyone does what they do now, they just do it more efficiently. That is how the wealth of a nation really grows, but unfortunately no one seems to understand that anymore.

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Coat

@gedesj

Couldn't have said it better myself.

The company I am contracted to has an intense database for managing claims that runs on AIX, but all the clients use a Windows based app. The bad part is, they are pretty progressive and I was surprised that they didn't have any Linux boxes. May have something to do with the CIO being a MS Fanboi.

I hate to agree with AC, but he is right about some of the teething problems you run into with Linux drivers. But, I blame MS's hold on some of the hardware vendors.

Mines the one with the job lists of companies that use Linux.

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Numbers games

Are all those figures for units (of Vista) shipped including ones with new PCs, or just retail? 'Cos it's nigh-on impossible to buy a new computer *without* Vista, but that's not the same as someone actively choosing the OS and liking it. It's sort of like getting a car with cheap crappy tyres on...

As to Win7, well I've been running the (Technet) RTM version for a week and it's fast, fancy, and solid as a rock. I'm sold, and I've a hunch a lot of other people will be too.

As to Linux, well sorry but my (admittedly) limited experience is it CAN'T do the job, not without a lot of fiddling, searching forums, hacking, and frustration.

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Windows comes with the PC, hardly anyone buys it

I would say the 'sales' of Linux are far higher than Windows: hardly anyone buys Windows, it just comes already installed on the PC they buy. To 'buy' Linux you have to go to the effort acquiring and installing it: you mainly have to download it or find a cover disk and INSTALL it.

Linux installation is about as painful as Windows installation, but in different ways. Once installed each is easy to use, but have different strengths. Windows has the advantage in that more people have learnt the nonsense things you have to do to get it to work and that knowledge is easier to share (with friends and relations).

The desktop market share from agent strings on Wikipedia: 67% WinXP, 22% Vista, 5% Mac OS X, 1% Linux. It is estimated there were 600 million PCs in use in 2003. All those device manufacturers missing Linux support are ignoring a market of 6,000,000 personal computer users, yet Linux doesn't have critical mass to attract the free support that Windows enjoys.

Ref:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_desktop_operating_systems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer

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The biggest fudge of all . . .

should also have been mentioned: the "Windows 7 Technology Guarantee Program", which is enabling PC's shipped with Vista (including those where the customer voluntarily downgrades to XP) to be counted as _deferred_ Windows 7 sales with a temporary Vista installation. At W7 launch in October, 30 million or more copies of W7 will immediately happen according to Microsoft's count, even if no-one in the world does anything at all. Then there's the way Microsoft encourages OEM's to buy licenses in bulk far ahead of time (presumably via discounts), which will further enhance the apparent "demand" for Windows 7. Fortunately accounting standards require these things to be revealed in Microsoft's quarterly accounts. But there will be no mention of this when MS brags about the "extraordinary uptake of Windows 7" on a date calculated to let people think all sales were after the launch. But there won't be any clue from Microsoft of the true nature of most of the sales up to that point, or in the relaying of the "information" by the lazy, fawning media.

It's simply a trompe-l'oeil paint job on a (court established) monopoly. No competent journalist should write it up as anything else. (Monopolies aren't illegal, of course, but I wish this kind of nonsense was).

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Anonymous Coward

Predictions won't matter.

You guys can moan about Microsoft and sales figures untill you are all bloody and it's not going to change the probable course of Windows 7.

Microsoft's biggest flops are behind them. If you have installed the Win7 RC or final bits on a few machines of varying vintage and pedigree you've got to know that the OS functions smooth enough and powefully enough that whatever momentum "alternate" OS's might have gained in the last few years is going to be seriously hampered.

Windows 7 will be a big cash cow for Microsoft and the vendors that surround it. You can get on board and ride the train or you can keep fighting for your shrinking slice of the alternate pie.

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@AC 22:24

We're still buying them that way and buy around 300 PCs a year....

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Thumb Up

Looking forward

Well, I, for one, am looking forward to Windows 7. With the exception of a 64-bit WinXP license I got for testing SQL Server 2005, I haven't bought a MS Windows license since Windows 2000 and am looking forward to an upgrade (hardware as well as software). I'll have to get a copy first to see how it runs though.

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WTF?

@gerdesj

Seems someone needs some time off in the quiet corner with his blankie....

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Where's my cut?

It's a shame that MS feel it necessary to 'big up' Win7 with this kind of manure - e.g. I work in the "IT industry" (for an MS megapartner) and I'm very sure that I'll see zero benefit from the Windows 7 launch.

And before the MS fanboidom accuse me of rabid penguiness, I'll just point out that while I hate Vista with a passion (a feeling that it manages to return everytime I try and use it) I've had an extended go with the Windows 7 RC and even put in a pre-order for Win7Pro when these were available.

I will agree with one thing though - I actually quite like Win7 - and from the positive stuff being written about it, so do others. In which case I would have thought it highly likely that it'll outsell Vista post-launch (even with some creative massaging of figures from Redmond).

Re: "Not many comments on this story. ." (AC 14Aug 21:54) - please go find another bridge to troll under. I've been using a variety of Linux systems in development and production for a long time and I've not had to 'recompile a kernel' in two years. Normally I just get a nice prebuilt, pretested kernel image from the vendor and use that. Heck, compiling a custom kernel is the _last_ thing I want to do because it really, really screws up your support with RH etc.

Re: "Linux = fail" (Combat Wombat). If your apps are Windows-based currently, then heck I'd agree moving to Linux/Unix is probably going to cost. However, you _cannot_ make generalisations like you are. I'm seeing a lot of folks moving from propietary Unix (Solaris, HP/sUX, AIX etc) to Linux for cost savings on the platform. Moving these apps to Windows would just be plain dumb - high retrain and porting costs - plus a platform that offers zero advantages over a 'cheaper' Linux equivalent. Of course, I'll admit a bias here - the companies I deal with are on the mainstream apps - Oracle DB, Weblogic, Websphere, SAP, etc - rather than the more specialized 'niche' stuff that you're looking after, (as an ex-graphics programmer myself, I'm a bit jealous that you get to see/play-with all that nice CGI gear). As for the comments on Samba - yes, I'll agree it's a black art - and one that's easy to get wrong in a large deployment. On the other hand AD is not the be-all and end-all of identity management - it's really only a non-standard implementation of LDAP+Kerberos - so you could set this up and then let your MS kit join the (now standardised) LDAP+Kerberos infrastructure. Last time I looked there were plenty of Linux alternatives to Samba for AD integration.

Oh, and small point of information, before you get too enamoured of "GoogleOS" (also seen it called "ChromeOS" in some places), I'll just mention that this is (reputedly) built on a Linux base - depending on what report you read it's at least the Linux kernel, some say that the inherited part is more than this.

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Gates Horns

Always suspicious...

I'm always very suspicious of Microsoft's claims on numbers shipped. Most of MS's site licenses include an upgrade capability, and they'll ship you license codes and media for every single sodding upgrade ever. My wife is head of ICT at her school, and gets sent more MS CDs and DVDs in a year than AOL of shipped in their life. Anyway, back on topic. I can bet that MS count the couple of hundred PCs at her school as shipped Vista copies, just because they sent out a license. The reality is that they're still all running XP as so much of the educational software /still/ requires XP to run. To the AC above: yes, MS counted 'up'graded to XP versions of Vista as a Vista sale too.

I can't see many businesses having a compelling reason to upgrade to Windows 6.1 before the end of 2010 anyway (hell, when's the first SP scheduled?). Most of my clients still run IE6 as standard!

As for consumers, I don't know anyone who is thinking of getting a new laptop in the next year or so who isn't going Mac. Okay, so my cross section of firends & family may not be representative of the marketplace as a whole, but it's interesting, nonetheless.

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Gates Horns

@ E 2

Wow!

I didn't realise it was THAT good!

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Flame

@ gerdesj

...and I take it that's your real name?

If your going to insult someone for being an A/C, then use your real name, not a monicker. Twat!

Lots of love....a different A/C

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Stop

Re: @gerdesj [off topic]

AC (17Aug 10:09) said "...and I take it that's your real name? If your going to insult someone for being an A/C, then use your real name, not a monicker. Twat!"

First off, picking someone up about their name is a bit infantile Mr Coward, (and yes I know _I'm_ using a handle).

Secondly, I was dealing with a supplier in Germany who's name was Joachim Gerdes. Apparently (according to him), this surname is quite common in the part of Germany he was speaking from. And with his employers naming convention (surname+forename-initial) his email address was gerdesj@-----.de

So it's probably a little premature to accuse him of not using his "real name" unless you're sure that this is the case. He also offered to assist, and provided an email addy (ok, I'll admit which might be fake), more than either of us did.

So - to stoop to your level - if he's a "tw*t" then you're a bigger one! :-P

@gerdesj "Re: Not many comments on this story. . ?", good response (up until the last line - tsk, tsk) shame the original poster was a blatant troll.

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C'mon Linux is okay

As a Linux user, I'd love to see Microsoft, and Apple going down the drain. However, in real world; good guys don't always win. Truth of the matter is that we live in a society which respect power, greed, and guiled.

Well, Linux doesn't have a chance for a very long time. After all what would happen to all those virus manufactures -- excuse me anti-virus software companies --- once GPL base software take over? Let's not forget all those government built in spyware installed by some countries a la UAE (dubai), Pakistan, Russia, and even India.

Nope, no chance in hell

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Grenade

It always makes me giggle...

Ain't this just dandy, eh? All these people shouting at each other.

Of course, what it comes down to is just what the bods in business think, particularly SMB's, who will be the corps of tomorrow. And I think there is a significant changing of attitude from "oh, just buy WinX, it's easier". Many have been stung before and now require more justification for any decisions they make. Remember these are the people building their frameworks now, with little worries about legacy apps.

I've said it before: Vista: I used 2008-2009 - had to replace with Ubuntu, before my business went to the wall with the decrease in productivity and the prospect of having to replace thousands of pounds worth of apps. Before anyone starts yabbering about tweaking and optimising, I'm not an OS-tard. The OS is there to do a job, and it should do it straight away wothout any interference. Like, ooo... Ubuntu does!

One time when I had a hardware problem I had to rebuild (Ubuntu) and get working again. I lost about 1 1/2 hours work time doing it (including Application installs, drivers and updates). I have never rebuilt a Win machine from scratch in that time.

BTW, what's recompiling a kernel? Must be easy, I never even noticed myself doing it. Or am I just just so-o-o f*cking good I didn't know it myself...?

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But ...

I still don't know what Windows 7 will do for us that XP couldn't. Or, why didn't Microsoft throw Vista in the garbage can, and ship (say) "XP reloaded"? By all means, replace its kernel, if they can do a better job starting afresh. But keep the user interfaces we are familiar with, so there isn't a massive hidden cost while everyone gets used to the gratuitous rearrangement of all that we had got used to.

As for that bug that was latent in the Linux kernel for eight years: almost as soon as it was spotted, a fix was available. Most major Linux suppliers patched their currently-supported distros within weeks if not days. Any that don't(?), you have several alternatives to choose from. Contrast this with that bug in Windows that Microsoft recently fixed after about two years of ignoring it, and only because the black hats had started exploiting it. Ask yourself, how sure are you that there aren't any eight-year-old latent bugs as yet undiscovered in XP? And more importantly, if or when they are discovered, are you confident that they will be fixed within days? And even more importantly, what are your alternatives?

And most importantly, ask yourself who has most to gain from the discovery of such bugs after XP is no longer a supported operating system?

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@AC 15th August 2009 08:59

We have IMAP service turned on our exchange server.

I use evolution for calendaring and thunderbird for mail on linux.

On Mac I use mail - once you have gotten used to mail on mac, you have a hard time opening Outlook again, my nerves could not stand it anymore.

Archiving hard in thunderbird? You must be kidding? No, it is easier than Outlook, honest .... open thunderbird, look to the left, down below, can you c "Local Folders" ? Now, move your mail there for offline usage .... easy? now, create a rule to do just that ... cool, right?

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