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back to article What's Welsh for Orange?

Half a million or so Welsh speakers will get the first mobile phone designed with them in mind. Welsh_samsung_phone Samsung's S5600: soon available with a Welsh dictionary Orange has won an exclusive to sell the Welsh language version of the Samsung S5600. It goes on sale on September 1 and is available on 24-month contract …

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Anonymous Coward

Oh no...

... another mobile phone exclusivity deal. Is the competition commission sleeping or something?

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Stop

Atal!

What an odd language situation they have. Surely there must be only about 3 people left in Wales that don't speak English. I wish they'd just commit fully to using Welsh or stop wasting vast amounts of tax-payer's money on twice as many road signs/twice as much road paint/translated leaflets/websites etc. Use one language FFS! I don't care which one (although of course it'd make my life easier if it was English, and then they'd have to stop discriminating against non-welsh speakers in job applications too... mumble mumble...).

Expecting many flames from Welsh people now, hence AC.

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WTF?

Fail

1. No press release in Welsh

2. No Welsh version of their website

3. Will their bills be in Welsh?

4. Will their customer service lines be manned by Welsh speakers?

5. No jokes about dial-a-sheep please

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FAIL

Documents

I wonder if all the supporting documents and box are also in Welsh ?

Probably not if they don't even do a Welsh press release

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Boffin

In answer to the article title

"oren" for the fruit, "melyngoch" for the colour, at least thats what www.geiriadur.net says.

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Boffin

Orange yn Gymraeg...

...Oren.

Proper tidy butt!

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Coat

Hmm.

I wndr wot wlsh txt spiks gng to lok lik?

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Pint

@TeeCee

Cra hn, bchgn?

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Cmrg yn txt

Ma hn wld fy tads n anwl i mi. Crecha!

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Joke

i live in wales

I live in north wales, everyone supports england at football, everyone speaks english - i cant see the point, if they cant speak or read english then surely they have no life so dont even need a mobile phone!!

Wonder if welsh phone numbers will be as backward as their language 98574525770 IN'A IT!

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@TeeCee

It already looks like txt speak!

Welsh speaker, so I'm allowed ;)

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Troll

@ TeeCee

heh, its not like we can just remove the vowels to shorten words... ;)

i jest. i am welsh. just can't speak it, not much point in the south...

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Badgers

It Can't Be Real

It can't be real because every Englishman knows that Welsh isn't a real language but is only spoken when somebody English comes into view. Of course the English have never managed to explain how the Welsh are so clever as to be able to recognise the English on sight.

Badgers? Because the thing that always reminds me I'm back in Wales is the sign on the A55 which warns of badgers in both English and Welsh.

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Re: Atal

In reply to Anonymous Coward's 'Atal' post, there is a Welsh Language act which gives us Welsh the right to communicate in our native tongue. Your view is very narrow minded and next i suppose you'll be saying you want the rest of the world to make English the standard language for everything everywhere. Our language is a sign of our heritage and it is a part of who we are. We have had to put up with this discrimination for centuries!

I think this phone is a brilliant step forward and i believe this will pave the way for many more manufacturers following the path and adding the language onto their mobiles. Even MS decided to make Welsh an option for XP and Vista, and we can even have Facebook, Firefox, Linux all in Welsh. This could help push the welsh language forward again.

I noticed the reg had amended it's description of Alex Jones as a man!

I wonder if Dafydd Iwan has had talks about re recording "Yma o Hyd" as the default ringtone.....

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Anonymous Coward

@Ryan 1986

You don't live in north Wales. You live in an extension of Lancashire (as was) mostly populated by Mancs and Scousers. In the real north Wales Welsh is generally spoken as a first language and they definitely don't support England at football. Indeed talk like that would probably get you strung up.

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WTF?

But which version of Welsh?

Because I think there are at least three! In a past life I worked with an NHS computer system which was developed and supported in Cardiff but used throughout England and Wales. It used English throughout, but within Wales all of the bespoke stationery it used had to be bilingual. The development team had two staff who had Welsh as their first language, one from the North and one from the South. Apparently translating the forms etc. caused many arguments between these two, with each producing their own (differing) version. Eventually they would reach a concensus at which point the whole lot went off to the "official" Welsh language team at the Welsh Office. As surely as night follows day this unit would send back a third version...

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Some points are being missed

It's not about catering to people who exclusively speak Welsh. There won't be too many of them. but it's for people who wish to use their mobile phone in their preferred language.

Suppose you're French. Sorted. German? Sorted. Finnish? Also sorted. Welsh? Until now, not likely.

Well done Samsung, I say!

@AC " Use one language FFS!" - Wow.... just wow. It's this narrow-minded attitude that gives us English a bad rep in other countries. How do _you_ get your point across in another country? I suppose you'd shout a bit louder....

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Anonymous Coward

Tut...

@ Anonymous Coward@Ryan 1986

Actually, from my experience the language of North Wales is Brummie...

@DwishoFishMawr

Silly....its kind of like when your parents let you have a 'DwishoFishMawr's Room' sign on your bedroom door. Its not that you OWN the room, its just that at the moment they're letting you use it at the moment and will want it back one day - except we don't really want Wales back thanks. We're happy to borrow the nice bits for holidays

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gaelfon

Similar thing in ireland with Samsung and Gael fón

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If I was Welsh....

If I was Welsh I'd be raging, and I'd be considering a boycott of all Samsung products.

Why? Because damned if I'd let some trumped up electronics firm sell *my* language as a marketing ploy to some poxy little telecomms company.

If it's a service to the people, it shouldn't come with strings attached. Particularly given the spotty coverage Orange has in certain parts of rural Wales. To be fair, they're not any worse than the other mobile providers, but it's a bit off to be freezing out people just to try to upsell a few contracts with handsets.

Ah well, at least they didn't have the bare-faced cheek to try to sell them 3G handsets....

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Linux

Dear 'Fish Trousers Ma'

I'm welsh and I think your completely wrong. This is a daft idea. Take an ordinary phone remove the vowels and put phlegm sounds on the keyboard. Job done.

We all speak English (as a first and in many cases only language )and those Welsh speakers only use Welsh to be rude when we know the English are about.

The Welsh Language act is an utterly unnecessary bit of stupid legislation designed by crackpots for crackpots and an excuse for council jobsworths to spend English taxpayers money.

Daft idea! Oh and I'm originally from Rhydwyn, Anglesey BTW.

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Orange

As has been said, its melyngoch, from "melyn" for yellow and "coch" for red.

And there are a hell of a lot more than 3 native Welsh speakers who regard it as their first language, closer to 400,000 or about 20% of the inhabitants of the Principality.

And the best thing about being Welsh? Your not English!

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@AC - Atal!

So what you're saying is nobody should be multilingual? IME most Dutch people speak perfectly good English are you saying they should stop using English and stick to Dutch?

Lets be fair most nationalities seem to speak better English than the majority of English people these days. Only today I read "Contact myself for further support." What exactly is wrong with the word "me"?

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Anonymous Coward

Note to the person who wrote the article!

"Or, as she says, in the Gymraeg version:"

Should be "Or, as she says, in the Cymraeg version:", the word for Welsh (language) normally starts with a C - it would only start with a G, if you'd said it was "yn Gymraeg" (in Welsh) it's a mutation

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Pint

Gymraeg

I am only a Saxon, but if you are going to quote Cymraeg within some English, should you not quote the base form rather than the modified form Gymreag, which occurs after certain consonants to make a more pleasant sound. Or have I got it wrong?

Geoff

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Flame

Welsh is easy...

All you have to do is double up some of the consonants, replace some of the vowels with consonants and speak like a tart... Lliberally sprinkle about 70-90% more Ls than any normal llanguage and you're sorted.

If there's a word you're not sure about then put on a Welsh accent and say the English word....

Anonymous coward, hell, I live in a cottage...

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Alert

Hold on a second...

"....is available on 24-month contract at £19.57 per month or at £14.98 per month (with a £9.50 upfront fee)."

So paying £9.50 upfront saves you £110.16 over the 24 months of the contract..... is there anyone who wouldn't do this?

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My mam will be pleased

yes, it's the "Cymraeg version" - get your soft mutations correct.

I know its hard for people who rarely stray from the narrow stereotypes, but many in Wales prefer to talk to each other in Welsh. My mother and her sisters/friends regularly text each other in welsh and have to rely on multitap and a welsh dictionary that they have accumulated throughout the lifetime of the phone - which is instantly wiped when they upgrade.

The main issue is with technical support when you get some really bad translation of an error code. Technical terms really don't translate very well into welsh and you need to be skilful with the dialect and savvy with the technology to know when to leave a term alone.

If "bluetooth is not switched on" is translated to "mae dannedd las heb ei droi arno", then I think i'd rather have the english thanks!

As to the whole 3 different languages in wales. They are very minor regional differences, and when written down mostly relating to different vocabulary of common words.

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Welsh version http://news.bbc.co.uk/welsh/hi/newsid_8180000/newsid_8183600/8183676.stm

Y ffôn symudol Cymraeg cynta

Fe fydd y ffonau ar gael o fis Medi ymlaen

Roedd yn ddiwrnod hanesyddol ar Faes yr Eisteddfod wrth i gwmni ffonau symudol gyhoeddi'r ffôn Cymraeg cyntaf.

Cwmnïau Samsung ac Orange sy wedi creu'r ffôn fydd ar gael mewn siopau Orange yn unig o fis Medi ymlaen.

O hyn ymlaen mae modd anfon negeseuon testun yn Gymraeg ac mae opsiynau'r fwydlen yn yr iaith.

Dywedodd Pennaeth Manwerthu Orange, Sian Doyle: "Mae'r cwmni yn falch eu bod wedi darparu'r gwasanaeth arloesol.

"Mae'r farchnad Gymraeg yn bwysig i ni ac mae'n rhan o'n menter ehangach i roi mwy o ddewis i siaradwyr Cymraeg.

"Rydyn ni'n buddsoddi yn helaeth yng Nghymru, gan agor siop ddiweddar yn Nhrefynwy.

"Ac rydyn ni hefyd yn ddiolchgar i gwmni Samsung am gyflwyno'r gwasanaeth a chreu meddalwedd penodol - mae mwy na 44,000 o eiriau Cymraeg er mwyn i bobl anfon negeseuon."

Dywedodd llefarydd ar ran cwmni Samsung y cafodd gwasanaeth Gwyddeleg ei lansio'r llynedd.

Mae modd gwnud galwadau ac anfon negeseuon yn Gymraeg

"Mae'n profi ein bod ar flaen y gad o ran cyflwyno newidiadau a gwasanaethau y mae'r cyhoedd eu heisiau."

Dywedodd Alun Ffred Jones, y Gweinidog Treftadaeth, ei fod yn llongyfarch y ddau gwmni.

"Mae ffonau symudol yn rhan o'n bywyd pob dydd ac mae'n bwysig ein bod ni'n gwneud defnydd o dechnoleg gwybodaeth yn ein hiaith ein hunain.

"Gan fod y Gymraeg yn perthyn i'r ganrif hon mae'r cwmnïau hyn ar y blaen."

Dywedodd llefarydd ar ran Cymdeithas yr Iaith eu bod yn croesawu'r cam "pwysig" ond y "dylai'r hawl am wasanaeth Cymraeg fod ar gael i bawb nid yn unig defnyddwyr Orange yn unig".

"Er enghraifft, dwi'n ddefnyddiwr O2 ... a dyw heddi ddim wedi newid y sefyllfa.

"Does 'na ddim gwasanaeth Cymraeg ar gael."

Awgrymodd y dylid rhoi arian ar gyfer y sector i gyd

From Dywedodd onwards a collage from Cymdithas yr Iaith (a welsh language association that want to keep the welsh language alive and kicking)

They think this is a fantastic move by Orange and Samsung and this service not only should be given by Orange but by all the other Mobile networks and Manufactures in Wales. He says:

"For example, I am a O2 user... and today hasn't changed the situation.

"There isn't a Welsh service available" (By O2)

He suggested that the Welsh Assembly would fund money into the sector.

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RE: Dear 'Fish Trousers Ma'

I think your comments are outrageous!

Firstly, there are Welsh speakers like myself who use the Welsh language when I can because I had to move to England for work purposes and I miss my Welsh language use - we don't just use it to insult English people.

Secondly, the Welsh Language Act is not not utterly useless, it is one of the most important legislations concerning the welsh population. It ensures us the right to communicate in a language we feel comfortable with. Remember the English of old banned us from using our native tongue in the courts and in schools. You also make it sound like only the English pay tax, and that the Welsh spend it all. Just to assure you, we Welsh do pay tax just as any other nation within the UK.

@ AC - Tut

I'm sorry but the English thought they owned Wales but we fought back and the threat of losing our heritage and language is why this phone is so important. It reminds everyone we are not going to lose out heritage and our native language without a fight.

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Troll

Klingon

Can anyone else think that of useless languages there might be some better, more lucrative candidates.

Oh and "Orange won the competiton" to market this phone. There were two entrants?

Troll I am and it sort of looks like something else.

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white settler

@Anonymous coward 13:02.

Presumably while you were being brought up in Anglesey (or "Ynys Mon" as the locals call it) you might have noticed that the majority of the population were first language Welsh speakers. Didn't your parents let you mix with them? I expect you went to Hoyhead Comp so you wouldn't have to speak the dreaded "iaith".

My wife's Motorola Razr has done Welsh predictive text for the last three years now, she might look into getting one of these though.

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Joke

@Twm Davies

So close to Twp... ;)

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speaking as a welsh person

it's political correctness gone mad!

i still recall the day the welsh language entered my life - i was about 7, someone turned up at our school telling us we would be learning welsh as it was our culture - that being the case it's funny that i never encountered it before then.

language is a means to an end - a way of communication, if the world one day ends up with a single language then that's all the better - leave the rest in a museum.

and yes - putting road signs in both languages is just as daft - done to make a point, not for any practical point.

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Joke

@alan lovedog

"...putting road signs in both languages is just as daft...."

No it isn't. It gives us all a good laugh when we find out that the Welsh for: "Attention satnav users. This road is unsuitable for Heavy Goods Vehicles." actually translates as: "I'm sorry. The Welsh language translation service is unavailable at the moment. Please try again later." or something like that.

Worth every penny for that one alone IMHO.

Going back to the phone, according to Samsung the beastie features "music recognition". So the rebellion, the ROTM and the downfall of the human race will be caused by someone taking one of these to the Eisteddfod........you heard it here first.

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Linux

Alan Lovedog

You've got a far better chance of people understanding you if you do speak Klingon!

Oh and Fish Trousers.....Barnett formula. You lot and the Scots have been sucking the English taxpayer dry for years. So we are free to criticise you -Deal with it!

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Anonymous Coward

Predictive Welsh Text

Predictive Welsh text is old news, and is already available for a large number of mobile phones for a while: http://www.tecstio.com/en/

There is also a dictionary available: http://geiryn.com/

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@Peter Bond

"And the best thing about being Welsh? Your not English!"

Evidently.

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FAIL

Tech Support

Of course Orange still won't be able to provide tech support for the phone in Cymraeg since that's based in Bristol and full of Welsh-hating tractor drivers.

Funny how T-mobile which is based in Merthyr Tydfil doesn't provide this (that said I doubt many people actually speak welsh there)? Maybe if the Welsh Assembly (after the Head Master has finished with them) might want to insist that any Telecom company based in Wales provides welsh language service?

Just another example of a pathetic desperate marketing department trying to get attention because they can't get the basic marketing strategy right (hence Orange's slump in sales over the last 5 years - crap marketing). Never a leader always a follower. After all Orange is the waiting light rather than Go (or even the bold Stop!).

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