Nation of snoopers

This is the only downfall of this otherwise wonderful country. Lots of bloody snoopers!

So what happens...

... if I use steganography to obfuscate my email, then encrypt that email and then go and send it via an overseas SMTP server while hiding my tracks with Tor and using someone else's unsecured Wi-Fi connection?

How does GCHQ propose to deal with people who know how to cover their tracks? Or are the terrorists just being used as a scapegoat again to make it easier for the government to spy on us?

Unless GCHQ plan on using some great OCR software I'd be willing to bet just typing your email into mspaint and emailing the image would circumvent their keyword monitoring software.

Mass exodus of geeks

If this is ever implemented i forsee a mass exodus of geeks to other countries and the amount of computer related jobs in the UK going down to almost zero (due to the lack of people qualified to do them).

Curtain Twitchers Gone Mad

With all the money that's already be wasted on the this Orwellian nightmare, can't anyone on that project nip down the shop and buy GHCQ a f**ing clue???

Phorm tried a mild version of IMP and are now all but exiled, don't let it happen to you GHCQ!

I, for one.....

...welcome our new pr0n - caching overlords.

Persecute opposition, not terrorism

Like Si1 said, any well informed techs or terrorist will be able to cover their tracks.

But when you take into account the arrest of opposition MP's, detention for 28 days without charge, councils using anti-terror laws to snoop on litterbugs, and smear campains galore, you can see exactly what NuLabour want this for. They cannot stand the thought that they may be wrong, and so will use this power to manipulate their continued stay in power.

But was is even sadder, that is after 12 years, people still vote for them.

England Prevails!!!

And if you don't like it you can visit room 101

Maintaining ?

How they "maintain" a capability they do not have ?

Make it backfire?

I wonder how many of the 'accidental viewing is a crime' types of offenses you could tricks 'smart' probes into committing?

Welcome to China

I used to work for a company that designed processors capable of the sort of packet processing required at very high data rates. We always assumed China would be the biggest market for this sort of technology. If we had known what a repressive government we had, we could have targeted our marketing more appropriately :-)

@Si

"Or are the terrorists just being used as a scapegoat again to make it easier for the government to spy on us?"

Yes.

Weasel words

Let's say this plainly. The Home Office wants to spy by proxy on the total communications of the population of the UK. Its only justification is that they might be able to track terrorists who will avoid the tracking anyway.

I do hope some MP's read these comments because it is a total waste of public money, let alone the privacy angle.

Re: What is it about the voyeurs in Whitehall?

Because they're frightened of us.

They couldn't give a damn about the clever-clever geeky encryption schemes invariably trotted out in these comments. They're not interested in you personally.

Heck, they're not especially interested in terrorists (so long as they don't too anything too nasty on their doorstep, of course).

At the moment, all the MPs are terrified of being booted out of office and (more importantly) Whitehall are terrified that we, the people, will start demanding that things change around here.

So as far as they're concerned, increased surveillance is clearly The Solution!!

Re: The law is against you

"Refusal to divulge passwords or encryption codes is now a criminal offence punishable by 5 years in prison and/or an unlimited fine"

Agreed, but if I use a coding schema (i.e. certain words have key meetings, such as saying "My big cat is ready for you" where "big => car" and "cat => bomb") there is no requirement in any law for me to divulge the lookup table. Don#t make the mistake that so many people do and mix up encryption with coding; they are too very different things.

Paris - because she never gets things mixed up. Mostly.

@Si 1

"So what happens if I use steganography to obfuscate my email, then encrypt that email and then go and send it via an overseas SMTP server while hiding my tracks with Tor and using someone else's unsecured Wi-Fi connection?"

Then you'll be arrested under "anti terror" laws and held for up to 28 days without charge while the Met, SS, SB or whichever other shower of bastards stomp all over your life with their mucky size twelves, and they _will_ find something they can charge you with.

You will be required to hand over any and all crypto keys or go to jail for for five years.

When it turns out they can't get a solid conviction, you will be placed under a control order, tagged, monitored, curfewed and prevented from attending education or employment.

Because clearly, you have something to hide. Otherwise why would you have felt the urge to 'cover your tracks' in the first place. And clearly, the first thing you do with a big pile of traffic data is mine it to see whose usage patterns suggest they are doing such things.

And that, my dear children, is why IMP is so fucking bad.

RE Anonymous Coward Posted Monday 3rd August 2009 16:18 GMT

The law is against you

" You might break my ciphers, but you'll never break my codes."

Fair enough. Refusal to divulge passwords or encryption codes is now a criminal offence punishable by 5 years in prison and/or an unlimited fine. This is not a fantasy, this is now the law.

Your move, creep

Actually the terrorists would not use encryption, I bet they have a stock bunch of innocent phrases for when each stage of the plan is complete, EG

"Achmed recited sura 87 by heart today, he is learning more and more all the time"

Means

"We have placed the nuclear weapon in Washington, we are waiting for the arming key to arrive"

Although saying that, since I've put nuclear, weapon and washington in one email you can be sure I'll be getting the knock on the d

They are data fetishists.

How else to describe their endless desire to posess so much data?

Note that the last time MI5 issues an estimate they said that they ahve about 4000 terrorist suspects

Thats roughly 1 in 15000 of the population

And that justiifies asking for the complete data package of *every* CSP customer to be collected together and bundled up?

Most business that have that much unnecessary rubbish to handle charge their customer through the nose for the priveledge.

310 days left.

Refusal to divulge ...

"Fair enough. Refusal to divulge passwords or encryption codes is now a criminal offence punishable by 5 years in prison and/or an unlimited fine. This is not a fantasy, this is now the law."

Come off it, there is not enough jail space for real criminals, if everyone refuses to kowtow to these idiots then there is not much that they can do!

Refuse, refuse, refuse.

Encrypt, encrypt, encrypt - how sure can they be that the general punter could even know their encryption key!

Mind you "unlimited fine" solves the pension hole for the public servants responsible - I wonder, Hmm!

The Only thing Left ...

Now they've got :

DNA Database of convicted and innocent parties.

Travel Database of all UK and non-UK citizens.

Child Database of every child.

ID Cards – i.e. Database of all personal information.

Communications Database of all Phone calls, Emails, SMS's.(froms, tos & addresses)

Ability for any government (including local councils) to obtain any information about any citizens.

Huge outdoors CCTV systems.

Now "soon" to be indoors CCTV system eg Pubs.

Offence to photograph a member of the police force.

Stop and searches on a whim.

Huge medical Database of every UK citizen.

Automatic Number Plate Recognition [ANPR] on all roads – they’re springing up on all roads into and out of my home town

DVLA database

All the usual stuff Tax; NI etc, etc.

Public prevented from taking photos in public places

The only thing left is the requirement for you to have your ID card on you at all times and the RFID readers in all lampposts will know where you are all the time.

However, there is the small issue of powering all this stuff : Oil Supplies Are Running Out :

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/warning-oil-supplies-are-running-out-fast-1766585.html

AC cos this is Officially Now A Police State ™ and they know where I live!

PS will they want to keep all those stupid mindless tweetings?

If all the major ISPs refuse

will the government disconnect the interwebs?

I bet they won't.

Enough... Time to fight fire with fire...

The government clearly wants an Orwellian nightmare and they refuse to listen to anyone who disagrees with them, (just like all Narcissistics), so now its time to give them an Orwellian nightmare. Its time to play them at their own game and see how they like it.

If they bring in this monitoring system, then its time to create an open source wiki style Big Brother that monitors all politicians. I would suggest creating an easy to download phone application that allows photos to be combined with GPS locations and text (automatically uploaded to the wiki Big Brother server), to tag every sighting of every politician and then store it all for everyone to see. Their own argument can be used against them. They want us to believe public spying is to be accepted and there is no privacy in public. Crowd sourcing can then be used to pigeon hole each politician into their own database surveillance list of every time they meet someone and everywhere they go. Then finally we can also find out how they are spending our money as *they work for us*.

They are very evidently too close minded to ever see any option other than their own so no matter what we say, they are going to create this Orwellian nightmare so now its time to fight fire with fire and they only have themselves to blame.

Ever more people I speak to are showing their open angry at politicians and so ever more people would be willing to disobey them and photograph them. Time to turn the tables on them and see how they like it. The expenses scams showed just how much public anger is already against them and no government can oppose people when they get enough people angry at them.

If they want to destroy privacy then they will be destroying their own privacy.

Beat them at their own game

Just remember to put a couple of 'trigger' words in an innocent context in each & every email you send e.g. 'we were hoping to have a B-B-Q on the weekend and were hoping it would go with a bang but because of the weather it bombed out' & also to end each email & phone conversation with the comment 'F*** you Gordon Brown, you're a complete & utter c***' That'll keep them occupied.

If everyone does it - they're powerless - it's only if we allow ourselves to be browbeaten that they'll win - and, IMHO this current government is a far greater risk to our health than terrorists ever will be.