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back to article Johnson signs off ID card for UK citizenry

Home Secretary Alan Johnson has shown off the design for the national ID card for British citizens. The government has already dished out 50,000 cards to foreign nationals resident in the UK. For British citizens the card will look like this: id card mockup Johnson also said that residents of Northern Ireland would be able …

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Coat

Massive white space

Will it have the massive white space around it too? Is that paper, so you can fold it up in itself to hide it from prying eyes?

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Grenade

So what is the best way ...

What is the best way to fry the chips on these cards without leaving a trace? If I give a card a 20 seconds blast in the microwave oven can anyone detect that was done?

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FAIL

Didn't we already have one?

Anyone notice that this is virtually identical to the driving license? Why didn't they just upgrade that?

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Irish?

I trust that in the interests of equality or human rights or something, there will be similar options provided for the rest of us that may wish to be English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, etc, etc, etc...

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Silver badge

If I end up with one of these

It'll be straight in the microwave. Bye bye, Mr RFID. Fuck that thing right in one of its security holes.

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Fingerprints?

Hmm.. So we'll have to provide fingerprints, will we? I'm sure there's absolutely NO chance, whatsoever, that these will wind up with the Met, to be stored on their NoWeDon'tKeepPersonalInformationOnPeople database.....

Now, where did I put that acid...

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Anonymous Coward

Irish if you want

"Johnson also said that residents of Northern Ireland would be able to apply for a card which describes them as Irish, if they wished to"

what about residents of England etc who want to be described as "Irish" or do you actually ahve to be Irish first?

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Grenade

Forget the cost

What right have my elected representatives to pass laws that will require me to prove my identity on request? Anyone who thinks it won't become compulsory go to the back of the class.

O

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WTF?

Calm down, calm down

Irish? I'm Scouse, can I get that on mine, like kidda?

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Grenade

I propose...

We should all legally change our first name to "X" and our last name to "X". For legal purposes we can be registered as "no fixed abode". Belt sander on the finger ends.

Then watch them scratch their pointy haired heads.

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Flame

to translate

you won't be paying for this shit out of your taxes, you will be paying for it _as well as_ your taxes

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Anonymous Coward

no flags but ...

Ok, so the card doesn't have a union flag on it as they don't want to offended anyone so use "neutral" symbols of the countries namely: rose, thistle, shamrock and daffoldil. However, nothing I've read so far is specific on the colour of the rose .... is it likely to offend lancastrians, yorkist or perhaps both.

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What ??

"will be covered by the fee income it generates"

It's not fucking fee income, it's a bloody tax on living in and being British.

I'm not paying for a card to live in my country of birth, but i'll give the silly bint tuppence to buy a clue.

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FAIL

It expires!

So this card is only valid for 10 years, like a passport, does that mean I would have to renew my passport and this lesser ID as well?

Btw from the headline I was wondering if they had recruited Boris as their latest half arsed attempt to sell these things to the public (he does stray from the party line), I'm sure there's a group of lobbyists handing out massive backhanders behind this shit.

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Anonymous Coward

The very first shop in Manc to demand ID from me....

To buy a tin of beer or some spoons will simply loose my business. The ifs and buts are in short supply on this issue.

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Stop

Fingerprints

Did you know that fingerprints have not been proven scientifically to be absolutely unique. Also, only a certain number of unique identification points for each fingerprint are stored, so the chance of an overlap increases. Yes, the current population of fingerprinted people is large, but the checks that are carried out are used to help identify the criminal and if a number of similar matches arise but the criminal is one of them, then that's taken as proof of identify. When the whole country is fingerprinted, and the purpose becomes that of proven identify, then when similar matches arise what is the actual identify of the individual?

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Once more...

Like I said about the big scary comms database this morning, how have they managed to spend £200m on a project that doesn't even have a sound business case?

It works like this:

1. Idea.

2. Spend lots (most of which is wasted on dead ends, focus groups and "consultants")

3. Implement.

4. Test. (Repeat 3&4 until it works properly - rather than just doing 4 first and then doing 3 once)

5. Run it for a while until something useful happens.

6. Write retrospective business case citing the useful thing that happened in 5 as you main driver and product.

7. Whitewash public enquiry where necessary.

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FAIL

issued in 2006?

Why does a design they're unveiling now have an issue date of 2006?

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Happy

@I propose

...Mr Pudden Tame for me , by deed poll.

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Elizabeth Henderson

Lets *all* change our names to Elizabeth Henderson by deed poll.

Then The plods will know which are fakes - anyone not names Liz :-)

Jacqui^WLiz

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Unhappy

Been there, done that

Here in Italy everyone has an ID card, even if it's made of paper and not fitted with RFID. If you don't show it to policemen (upon request) they can arrest you.

And we have to pay to have one, even if it's compulsory to have one.

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Big Brother

Wrong shape?

Might be better to take all the square corners off the cards. It'll be less messy when they're shoved up the Home Secs a*rse!

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Anonymous Coward

Its plastic not paper

So the fuzz etc can't ask for "papers please" *

And the ensuing ruckuss that would be caused.

*for those of you Iwho came to Blighty after the last war, you'llknow this as "Ihre Papeire, Bitte"

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Big Brother

Happy to oblige...

'Issue 2 - July 2009: ID Matters' (Home Office mailshot):

http://www.ips.gov.uk/cps/rde/xchg/ips_live/hs.xsl/id-matters-issue2.htm#films

Quote:

"We'd love you to tell us what films would be in your top ten about identity. Email us now."

To: <webmaster@ips.gsi.gov.uk>

Subject: 'email us with your top ten films about identity'

My personal favourites are 'Nineteen Eighty-Four' (1984) and 'The Last Enemy'.

http://www.lovefilm.com/film/The-Last-Enemy/96687/

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WTF?

RE: Fingerprints

Fingerprints are Unique AFAIK (well thats what i was always taught), but yes the number of points of identification are important, but it just means they can narrow the search for the miscreant down to a more manageable level, if it narrows it down to one good but they will still have to do a manual check or it gets thrown out at court and annoys them.

Its like DNA testing, points of comparison are usefull but just indicate probability, more usefull in discounting. With the whole of the UK on a database with DNA, Fingerprinted and Iris'd eventually they will be able to charge us for oxygen usage. Bastards!

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Anonymous Coward

Sorry!

That last link should have been:

http://www.lovefilm.com/film/The-Last-Enemy/96687/details

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Grenade

This will not stop a terrorist or...

...other menaces to society.

I take issue with the word "income" from a government department.

I've just come off another government driven project that was as pointless and hated as this....Home information packs. They are clueless.

"Anyone notice that this is virtually identical to the driving license? Why didn't they just upgrade that?" I agree but it would too much sense.

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V for Vendetta was on last night

Shit film, but compelling message.

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Anonymous Coward

Not from me they won't!!!

"We have always been very open about ID card costs and recently published the annual ID card costs report. All the operational costs of issuing the cards will be covered by the fee income it generates."

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FAIL

@Grease Monkey

You almost got it right...try it this way:

1. Idea.

1.1 Whitewash

2. Spend lots (most of which is wasted on dead ends, focus groups and "consultants")

2.1 Whitewash

3. Implement.

3.1 Whitewash

4. Test. (Repeat 3&4 until it works properly - rather than just doing 4 first and then doing 3 once)

4.1 Whitewash

5. Run it for a while until something useful happens.

5.1 Whitewash

6. Write retrospective business case citing the useful thing that happened in 5 as you main driver and product.

6.1 Whitewash

7. Whitewash public enquiry where necessary.

7.1 Whitewash over again.

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Stop

And we need this why Mr Johnson?

It is said that 85% of the population have either a Passport, a Driving Licence or both. This means that a majority of us already have government-issued identification that is widely accepted throughout Society already. Why does this government consider it necessary to spend Billions of Pounds of additional money on yet another plastic card, yet another set of government beurocracy, yet another intrusive state database? It's not like that UK PLC is flush with loads of spare cash that it can fritter away on a dubious vanity project. Come on, we would all like to hear from you on this one Mr Johnson!

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Anonymous Coward

Irish

For those not in the know the reason that there is a distinction for NI is that those born in N.I. also qualify as citizens of the Republic of Ireland under both the Irish Constitution, and the recent peace agreement. So this is not about what you choose to call yourself, it's catering for citizens of N.I. who have dual nationality. For example a lot of people in N.I. like myself carry Irish passports, not UK ones.

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Citizen

I object to being called a "citizen", I am a British Subject, god save the Queen!

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Big Brother

Another innovative retail opportunity

Labour are as full of bright, new innovative things to spend your money on as Tesco's etc. Except tht while tesco can't make it's disgusting pre-prepared food a compulsory purchase, Labour can foist whatever garbage they want on us and hand a nice monopolistic little earner to whatever breathless capitalist twatdangle comes up with the most convincing argument for their version of "repression for profit and pleasure."

War profiteers tend to end up with a reputation that dogs them for decades. I would hope the suppliers for the ID cards project would be smeared with the same long lasting stench of unpolished turd.

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FAIL

Anyone with Irish grandparents may have a get-out clause

If you have any grandparent born anywhere in Ireland -or, like me, born in Northern Ireland before 1922, you qualify for an Irish passport. Which means: no need to get a new UK passport when an existing one expires, hence no ID card.

If all of us who qualify for such passports went for it, it would blow a hole in their "no fingerprints, no passports" plans

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Big Brother

Alternative implementation

Any MP who voted for ID cards ought to have it branded onto their forehead and the RFID chip surgically implanted into their rectum.

Not too extreme, surely?

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Big Brother

If and when ...

... these become compulsory, I'm going to grit my teeth and carve extremely offensive messages into my finger tips with a hot needle before getting scanned. The pain will be worth it, and in a few month's or so time the prints will have recovered, won't match ( causing no end of aggravation to authority ), but the message will be left on their database and in the card for anyone looking.

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Grenade

Be a long f... in time before

Be a long fuckin' time before I carry one!

This recent resurgence of state terror and budding fascism has led me to re read 1984, Animal farm, & just starting "Liberal Fascism"

One thing in common - it always comes from out of the left field, sooner we get rid of these God Damned pseudo commies the better.

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Unhappy

Questions, questions...

I'm a quarter Irish. Is that enough? (How about if I'm not very good at football?) If I lived in NI, but had no Irish ancestry, would I be able to claim for "Irishness"? How many other countries can we think of that insisted on residents carrying a piece of paper detailing their ancestry? Were any of them nice places to live in?

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WTF?

Specimen

I'm glad they overprinted the sample "Specimen". Do they really think that (a) we're all going to rush off to our inkjet printers and run off copies, and (b) that having that overprint will actually delay any would-be forgers?

I know that old habits die hard, but it does seem like an anachronistic kind of protection.

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Flame

Sure...

They'll say that they are non-compulsory, but sooner or later (if it hasn't already happened) the plan will become to roll them out by stealth. This will be by Govt. departments and cronyist business allies only allowing access to their services if you have one as the normal ways to prove identity will be sneakily recinded to give you no choice. So...

No ID card = No ability to open an account with a new bank.

No ID card = No ability to apply for a new credit card.

No ID card = No ability to do online tax returns or car tax renewals.

No ID card = No new mobile phone contract.

No ID card = No online flight bookings from UK operators.

etc...

If any of you trust this "non mandatory" bullshit from Labour after the stunts they have pulled over the last 7 years then you deserve what you get.

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Silver badge

But that is it FOR?

I've asked my local MP Stephen Pound this several times.

So far, the closest to an answer was:

"An effective and low cost method of establishing one's identity would be massively advantageous and would obviate the need for my son to carry his passport around and for me to have to constantly proffer my European driving licence." - Stephen Pound MP (12 Feb 2009)

Which not only isn't an answer, it's also wrong.

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Joke

So you now have a picture of the thing to forge.

Fine work. Carry on.

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FAIL

What a load of poop

ID card should also have RSA style 2 factor authentication built in also (like pn + token no). Would be a boon for accessing websites . Secure transaction etc.

77 quid or whatever it is is a f*cking ripoff for a bit of paper / plastic.

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@no flags but

" is it likely to offend lancastrians, yorkist or perhaps both."

Well i can only speak for the Yorkist faction, but we tend to be offended by absolutely anything. Loudly.

These twats are just trying to make it as complicated and expensive as possible for the next supreme leader to undo. Love to know how many of the current mob are on the payroll of ID tech companies. Blunket rings a bell for one.

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Big Brother

Oohh, can I have "Brummie" as my nationality?

Or perhaps I should join the nation of "Get to fuck you statist cunts"? I hear it's popular these days..

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Anonymous Coward

Killing RFIDs

The best way to undetectably kill an RFID is to whack it with a hammer. Microwaves work, but have a tendency to melt cards or show burn marks on passports.

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Anonymous Coward

All your details are belong to us

And will be left on a train at our earliest opportunity.

Tough on terrorism, tough on the causes of terrorism. If you're on the database, you're guilty of something. What, I strayed from the "Known or Suspected Terrorists" file to the "Anybody who wants to leave the country has to be Planning Something" file?

Oops, silly me.

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Big Brother

The final contempt for the public

They would rather continue to waste our money on this pathetic face-saving 'voluntary' card than admit it's a failed idea and redirect the money to useful stuff like army helicopters, hospital beds etc. This rather brutally reveals the contempt our masters have for us.....

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Paris Hilton

Re: Fingerprints

Happy birthday!

You might like to look up something called the Birthday Paradox: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem

It basically means that chance matches are much more likely than might usually be anticipated. Take a class of 20 pupils, and there are 190 opportunities for there to be a pair of pupils who happen, by chance, to have the same birthday. Hardly surprising if a lot of classes happen to have that seemingly unlikely coincidence occuring in them.

It's relevant to DNA profiles as well. Here are some recent comments on this:-

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/15/dna_figures/comments/#c_537913

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/15/dna_figures/comments/#c_538966

Paris - birthday suit.

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