Apple's notification system for the iPhone won't work on devices that have been unlocked to run on different networks, much to the annoyance of developers who are being left to explain the situation to customers. Powerybase, authors of NotifyMe, have gone public with their frustration. The company reports that 80 per cent of its …
Worse than MS
I can't stand them.
+1 *GAH NEEDS A LONGER TITLE FLAME!!!!*
another reason im glad i dont have a iphone teehee
Oh no my hacked phone isn't working properly...
Well gee, what the hell did you expect you wet end 'tard.
You could just use google...
The second reason I didn't get an iPhone
Just bought a HTC Touch Diamond2; Powerful, feature-rich, and with an excellent application pool and custom software scene with xda-developers.
What about officially unlocked phones?
The article doesn't explain (did anyone ask?) what happens with phones that are bought legitimately as unlocked (ie in regions where there is no region tie-in, or where the operator has unlocked the phone for the purchaser).
Ha! Just another reason why exclusive contracts are a Bad Thing(TM) and need to be abolished.
What a shame...
...that the iPhone doesn't support background processes, which would mean that this proprietary one-stop notifications system wouldn't have to be so inflexible.
Locked to carrier?
So what about the countries where the iPhone isn't tied to a carrier. Do they flat out not work?
re: What about officially unlocked phones?
I assume the section where it says unlocked phones on the original operator work,
I assume that means all the networks are supported and as such the push and notification software works as intended.
The problem only seems to occur on networks that shouldn't have any iPhones running on them.
long term commitment to their customers?
I think you meant to say a monopolistic lock-in.
Apple have one of the worst reputations for customer support out of all the big names in the IT industry, preferring to deny the existence of a problem, sometimes going so far as to delete posts relating to the issue from their support forums and often tardy at offering resoution when they do finally fess up.
officially unlocked phones
Yeah - what if you're roaming as well? I'm considering a trip to Italy to pick up a 3GS and I'm wondering what would happen when i bring it back to the UK and put it on Vodafone...
sounds like Apple's servers know your MCC / MNC and don't route if you ain't O2... tch.
HTC touch diamond2?
what a brick, saved only by the fact that it's running windoze, what a great OS from a great company!! much better than apple!!
@What about officially unlocked phones?
"users have reported that an unlocked iPhone on the official network does work, so it seems it's routing to the unsupported network that causes the problem rather than the unlocking process itself"
Officially unlocked works ok on o2 & att
I have an officially unlocked iphone, bought in NZ where they are not locked to carrier, running an O2 sim in the uk at the moment.
Also not had an issue with running it with an AT&T sim in the states.
Not convinced its to do with Network
That would mean they would be sending to a number, and apple will be making sure that "this message" goes to "this number" and if "this number" does not match "this network" then "This message = Fail.
Where as I thought it was sending to a unique address, like an IP, which matches the iPhone and not the user. In which case network shouldnt matter.
If the Dev Team can't fix this, then its most likely apple DID do this on purpose, to piss people off that unlocked their phones because they dont want the shitty crappy bunch of twatty limitations that they set.
*Stokres his jailbroken ipod touch 2g*.
I hate Apple, with a passion... but I love the iPhone/iPod Touch... But only when jailbroken.
Is it not just that the notification delivery is SMS based and that the routing is expecting a particular network?
Not everything is a conspiracy.
Oh dear, I breached the terms and conditions I agreed to when I bought the phone and I'm so sad that I HAD to have an iPhone but wanted to be a smart ar$e and use it on another network so hacked it and now evil Apple won't support it. D@mn you evil Apple, its all your fault.
Serves.... you..... right.
I recently unlocked my LG Viewty on 3 so I could give it to my daughter (after I received my lovely 3GS a few weeks ago).
Strangely enough all the 3-specific network-type stuff no longer works now it's got a Virgin Mobile sim in it.
If this was any other service from any other network it wouldn't even get a mention.
Maybe I am missing the point
Why do we need push notification for a to do list. Infact why does it have to happen off the iphone at all?
not necessarily a big deal
"Unofficially activated" means just that - presumably the problem relates to iPhones that have not been activated by iTunes, but by "pwnage tool" or similar. This is not directly related to whether the phone is unlocked or not, and may perhaps be fixed with an update to pwnage tool.
It seems unlikely that this is a major Apple policy issue, because notifications also work with iPod touches, which don't have service contracts.
Those who bleat about Apple's restrictive carrier agreements must realise that Apple is just exploiting government mandated greedy and restrictive carrier cartels where they exist, to extract a large share of the excessive revenues of the carriers. This is simply a phase; it won't go on for ever. All smart phone handset makers are doing it to a greater or lesser extent, depending on how popular their device is.
If you want an officially unlocked iPhone, it's available, just not yet in the US or the UK. Try Italy or Hong Kong or ...
Here's a service that no other handset maker offers at all, and yet people are complaining that it's "restrictive".
@ AC 1310hrs
Yeh really serves all those people right who paid through the nose for perfectly legal iPhones that come unlocked. Grow up and realise that there are plenty of faults with Apple too, as this case clearly shows.
"Apple have one of the worst reputations for customer support out of all the big names in the IT industry"
Sorry, you are entirely wrong. Apple has had the best ratings for support in surveys for the past several years. For example, May 2009:
"Consumer Reports surveyed its readers about computer tech support. Apple trounced the field in both desktop and laptop categories."
Anybody told Apple that unlocking is a statutory right, at least in the UK, and they cannot deny it no matter what their conditions say. Also, a comlpaint to the EU Competition Commission might be in order here, since it would seem to be an attempt to stifle competition in contravention of EU requirements.
@ Daniel Bennett
Really mate, get help. Hating a company with a passion is wrong, not to mention unhealthy. Speak to your GP about being referred to a psychiatrist, or pop along to your nearest mental health clinic - they might let you home to pick up your pyjamas...
Half truths are dangerous B. It isn't a statutory right to have your phone unlocked whilst still in the initial contract period. Since it is only July and anyone with a 3G iPhone bought in the UK cannot have had it for more than 12 months, there isn't anyone with an O2 contract that is eligible to have their phone unlocked (minimum contract period available is 18 months). It is worth bearing in mind that jailbreaking your iPhone breaches the contract and terms and conditions that were agreed when the phone was purchaced. What happens to phones after that initial period is a different matter, but that's 6 months off and Apple and the carriers have got the time to sort this out in a way that they and the regulatory bodies see fit. In fact, I'm fairly sure that jailbreaking goes against the software license for the iPhone OS generally, so I'd argue legally you are on shaky ground. If you've bought one on eBay, you are on your own...
What's with all the whining?
What an astonishing display of the modern entitlement culture. If you don't like Company X, DON'T BUY THEIR STUFF! It's not neurosurgery, is it?
The issue the article refers to is simple: some carriers do not have the necessary back-end components in place to support the iPhone! Big shock! Why would Vodafone or T-Mobile UK support push notifications through their servers when they don't (currently) sell or support any phones that require it? Granted, it'd be nice if Apple's SDK didn't cause apps to fall over when running on an unsupported carrier's network, but this clearly wasn't something Apple expected to see very often. (Even the developer mentioned in the article clearly states it's only 5% of iPhone owners who are "suffering" at all. The other 95% of iPhone users are doing just fine.)
Apple don't sell phone components like a separates hi-fi system from NAD: they believe in selling a complete *package*. (Call it a complete "user experience" if you prefer.) This is a *fundamental* element of their design philosophy, and there are plenty of independent books on design to support their contention. Apple are not being "restrictive" or "monopolistic" here. They're just fascists when it comes to design. If you don't buy into this view of design, you're free to buy someone else's products instead. Apple don't care about you. (No, really: they don't.)
Don't want an all-in-one package deal? Bugger off and buy somebody else's kit then. You might want to try some of those little-known mobile phone manufacturers such as, er, Nokia, Samsung, LG and HTC. Apparently, some of their phones aren't bad either. I can particularly recommend the Nokia 2630 for its battery life, simplicity and a stunning feature which lets me make and receive calls without crashing. Ever.
I'm getting seriously bored with all the sub-Slashdot flames and ill-informed rants. See that large masthead at the top of the page with "The Register" written on it? That means this site is *not* Slashdot. Please take your ill-informed piffle there, where you can wallow about with your peers in the blissful, happy, sunshine of wilful ignorance.
Don't like Apple? Don't *buy* Apple. It really is that simple.
FAIL icon, because it describes many of the commentards here.
I use an Android Phone..... Free to do whatever the hell I want to do.
No one has me by my short and curlies.
It's funny though. Even though Apple had arguably purposely gone and done this, you'll have the Apple faithful that think it's ok for Apple to do this to them and that they "deserve it" for violating the terms of their service agreement.
*Makes me wonder...*
Offically unlocked iPhones
Here in the Isle of Man the iPhones are all sold unlocked. I've used mine roaming in the UK and it worked fine, was on automatic network selection though so can't guarantee it will work with all networks.
Just like you can't expect every game to work if you fitted a modchip to your games console.
who is the real whorst monopoly
Apple of course
Apple is the proof that the planet is filled with Appletards and that humanity is doomed by it's own stupidity.
It is safer to live in the basement of a nuclear reactor then owning/using any Apple products
Funny how it brings out emotions
I hate/love, hahaha, that's evil/monopoly behaviour, jada jada.
2 - nobody is forcing you to buy an iPhone, and those who bought it may have had all sorts of reasons. I don't have one yet myself, but I had one as company phone for a contract. Only now it has remote kill (roadkill?) and crypto will I consider it, I like the apps and the thing goes quite well in a suit pocket, and I prefer it over a Blackberry (again, personal opinion). So I'll probably get it as contract update.
3 - does it matter which OS? That goes together with the phone, and I personally couldn't care less. I had the Nokia 9100, Linux driven Motorolas, the XDA and I still use a Sony Ericsson p1i which even ran a TomTom GPS nav for a while despite it not being officially supported. They all did what I needed at the time (except the XDA, that was just too slow and bulky for me).
4 - It is a device. Hardware. Stuff you can kick, with something inside to make the kickable stuff eat battery power and run up bills. Is your social life so replete of entertainment that you need to waste emotions on a THING? Ditto for companies.
So there. If you still want to whine, can you do it out of earshot? Thanks.
I may stop reading el reg.. it's not good for the blood pressure
@ anti-fanboys - Ask yourself why somebody owning a product you don't like upsets you so much? I really don't get it. Not everything is a conspiracy, not everybody is out to get you, and just because you don't have one, doesn't mean you are better than those that do.
@ fanboys - There is no proof this was deliberate, but there is also no proof it wasn't - stop defending Apple, you are feeding the trolls.
@ genuinely interested people on the subject - I turned push notifications off on mine, since firmware 3 my phone is crazy slow, buggy, and battery life is half what it used to be - so turning it off was a good way of saving a little extra battery life. After getting really annoyed over it all, I looked about the net to see if I was the only one suffering, then I found alot of other people are having similar problems, like here:
Seems others with 3G's are having issues too - so rather than fixing a minor bug with iphones on unsupported networks that affect a small number, I would at least hope they fix the problems with the software that affects more (like slide-to-answer not working every other call, 5 seconds for keyboard to appear, slow changing to landscape, crashing) then sort out something for the network jumpers (and legally imported/roaming phones - ofcourse). So far the only thing to get my phone working again is a full settings reset, then it slowely goes back to being sluggish... if it's not fixed soon, I'll be jumping ship once the SE "Rachel" android phone is released.
Oh my giddy aunt
Did somebody shit? There's so many flies around here all of a sudden!
Could someone please get these anti-Apple'tards a fucking life! Every single article about Apple in general and the iPhone in particular draws out these freaks. Its something a psychiatrist could probably write volumes about, but why the fuck would he bother with you lot?
There is nothing spectacular here. This is non-news for any legit owner/user. It is only going to affect the tiny minority of people who have unlocked their iPhone to use on another network, an insignificant 5% making 80% of the noise as Powerbase state. 5% people! A completely unrepresentative minority who knew exactly what they were doing when unlocking and using on another network. That their precious doesn't work 100% should come as no surprise to them - except being the 'tards that they are it does.
Well tough luck, hard cheese, who actually cares? Go buy a phone that can do everything you want it to. Don't buy an iPhone, the 5% of you wouldn't be missed. Don't you get it:? You are an irrelevant and unrepresentative statistic. Then those of you on here who are bitching and moaning at every single Apple & iPhone article who don't actually have an iPhone are even moreso, totally irrelevant. Yes, you. There is so much choice out there in the real world that you really don't have to spend your time following the Apple bandwagon around banging your drums and tamborines like rabid Salvationists thrusting your copy of War Cry under everyone's nose.
Fail = Windows Mobile, crap. Android, has its own set of locks and restrictions. Symbian, you've got to be joking. Everything else, completely proprietary. Hmmm, yes, there is so much better to be had.
Will all those who keep saying things like: "I've got an unlocked iPhone and it works on <insert network list> just fine" please read the entire article?
It's nothing to do with whether or not it'll work as a phone on "unapproved"networks, purely whether the push notification works when it's running like that. Now if someone could confirm that push notification and NotifyMe *do* work on networks that don't offer the iPhone if the unit in question is an officially unlocked one, *that* would be interesting. It would answer the question of whether this is indeed a carrier infrastructure limitation as some have suggested or just the usual Stalinist crud from Apple.
@ AC 12:48 GMT
"you MS'tard". Genius.
That is all.....
'if you don't like it don't buy it'
This is fine, if you accept the consequential argument, don't argue that it is better. The problem is that Apple people want to argue that Apple products are better, and recommend them both for individuals and for educational institutions because they are supposedly better.
Then when others give perfectly valid reasons why they are not better, and in fact are considerably worse than others on the market, they want to be able to reply, if you don't like it don't buy it. But that is exactly what we are talking about, reasons not to buy it. If you want to carry on persuading people that the Apple solution is better, you have to find some argument why the objections are not valid. And you cannot.
The fact that Apple wants to be the sole source of apps for the iPhone is one very good reason not to buy it. The fact that they want to control the flow of your messages by putting them all through their servers is another. The fact that they want to tell you what networks you may use is a third.
Yes, if you don't like it, don't buy it. These are all very good reasons why no-one with any sense should buy an iPhone. This is not the behavior you should want in your supplier of a phone. Don't buy it. Don't reward these creeps.
yeah the iphone is gash isnt it, i wank over a different phone instead..
complaining an iphone doesnt work 100% on a network that doesn't actually offer the iphone..... isn't that a bit like complaining your car won't drive on water, or that windows won't run logic 8
" The problem is that Apple people want to argue that Apple products are better, and recommend them both for individuals and for educational institutions because they are supposedly better." So ignore them and *don't buy one*!
"Then when others give perfectly valid reasons why they are not better, and in fact are considerably worse than others on the market, they want to be able to reply, if you don't like it don't buy it. But that is exactly what we are talking about, reasons not to buy it. If you want to carry on persuading people that the Apple solution is better, you have to find some argument why the objections are not valid. And you cannot." Funny, it seem to be the other way round fro where I'm sitting. Then you go on with (which is just brilliant!) "The fact that Apple wants to be the sole source of apps for the iPhone is one very good reason not to buy it. The fact that they want to control the flow of your messages by putting them all through their servers is another. The fact that they want to tell you what networks you may use is a third."
"These are all very good reasons why no-one with any sense should buy an iPhone." How? W You didn't give an reasons;
"The fact that Apple wants to be the sole source of apps for the iPhone is one very good reason not to buy it." That's not a "valid" reason. It's a statement. Why?
"The fact that they want to control the flow of your messages by putting them all through their servers is another" Why is this an issue? How is this different to Orange or O2 with MMS/SMS?
"The fact that they want to tell you what networks you may use is a third." Why? how is this any different to Google and T-Mobile? Or the myriad Nokia exclusives in the past?
I agree with your initial statement - totally valid. Shame about the rest of your post...
"Oh dear, I breached the terms and conditions I agreed to when I bought the phone and I'm so sad that I HAD to have an iPhone"
It's my fucking phone. As you say - I bought it. Admittedly when you jailbreak one then it's your lookout if things don't work. But deliberately breaking things just cos you're pissed off with people who don't appreciate being told what to do whith their own equipment is just vindictive.
I'm a bit scared though - as I sold my jailborken iphone (for an obscene amount of money) to a numpty - I'm expecting a call anytime now.
What about roaming?
When roaming a different network is used... will Push work?
The problem and the confusion.
When you unlock any other phone to use it on a different network you don't expect to be able to use the old network's services. Unlock a Vodafone Nokia for Orange and you expect to lose Vodafone services (but possibly gain Orange ones).
The trouble with the iPhone is that the services aren't provided by O2, they are provided by Apple. Naturally many users assume that Apple with continue to provide services regardless because it is Apple providing the service and *not* the network. Whether this is reasonable is obviously debatable.
It is worth noting that Google provide services to Android phones regardless of network and whether or not the phone is tied to a network, a 'dev' phone or a 'rooted' contract phone.
Paris. I just *bet* she has an iPhone.
na, i'm afraid it wasn't actually a question, so apple make a phone, and as part of that phone performing its intended functionality, some operator end stuff needs to be implemented, no problem there, apple are in bed with o2, they can do what they like, so they set their stuff up, everythings fine, now 'customer' comes along, gets an iphone off ebay, modified the software on the phone to work on a different op, and then complains it wont work, what are you complaining about, why should, say, t mobile implement hardware they don't offer?! why would they? why would apple bother communicating to t mobile to make a handset they know they don't do, work?! it makes no sense, it's like buying a car thinking, great, i can make this car drive on water, except that was never the intention, the iphone (car) works on o2s network (road) , because the phone and the hardware at the network are made to work with each other (like a car is made to drive on roads) it is not made to run on t mobiles network, nor is t mobiles network designed to work with it (we're talking 100%) obviously some functionality works, because the ops share technologies in that respect, i dont see why they would be obliged to make any phone that exists work 100%, if you mod it and then it doesnt work, big fking surprise, who do you expect to care?!?
You have NO clue dude. I work in the mobile industry, and I can tell you that Apple is in bed with NO one operator. Originally, Apple senior execs had an in with Vodaphone execs (went to uni together or something similar), and they were both VERY near a worldwide deal for global Voda rollout of the iPhone in all Voda countries.
Voda then demanded too much compensation and terms in their favour, and as a result Apple put the iPhone deal up for bid in each seperate country. In the UK, O2 simply offered more to Apple - probably because they were flush with Telephonica cash and backing, or because they saw the long-term potential better than Voda. In other countries other operators offered more, and hence the iPhone is on other carriers, or unlocked where law demanded it.
If anyone is at "fault", it is Voda, who blew a great opportunity with a whole lot of greed. Oh, you probably need someone to blame, and you are probably a Voda customer...sorry.
I have no problems with people who like Apple's products. Everyone knows that if you buy Apple, you don't own it - it owns you. Fine - it's a condition of sale and they've never made any secret of it. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But if you buy it, don't fucking whine
>> If you don't like it, don't buy it. But if you buy it, don't fucking whine
The number of jail broken iPhones shows there are plenty of people who don't like it but buy it. Myself being one. I can see where you are coming from with the don't whine sentiment - but then again moaning is the national pastime here in the UK - so if you (we) don't like it ...
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