In February of 2007, Albert Hofmann - the discoverer of LSD who died last year at an alert 102 - sent a letter to Steve Jobs, asking for the Apple CEO's help in funding research into psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. This revelation comes from a book excerpt published today by The Huffington Post, which also includes a …
re: Summary: Gates is beter
I don't know where to start...
Gate's "philanthropy" always comes with strings attached. He's trying to buy karma and little ego-boosting trinkets and cause confusion.
When you're skint then you might buy yourself a coffee cup with your name on it and you have to pay for the whole thing and the sales clerk ignores you.
When you've got billions, then giving $20 million to CMU and they pitch in the rest ($30m+) to buy yourself naming rights on "Gates Center". Every time you go to CMU they roll out the red carpet and generally lick your balls.
Not totally tight.
Well, back when Larry Brilliant was trying to get The Seva Foundation off the ground, Steve donated a million dollars. That was back when a million dollars was still worth something. Still, I'm sorry to hear that he didn't help Albert.
Correlation is not cause and effect but..
Let's see. Bill gates never did Acid, Steve Jobs did. Bill Gates is worth five times what Steve Jobs is. Bill Gates is willing to give away part of his fortune to help others, Steve Jobs is not. Microsoft Windows is used on ten times the computers that Mac OS X is. Bill Gates health is good, Steve Jobs is not.
And I am a hard core Mac owner.
Coke Head, LSD Tripper and Liver Killing Boozer Jobs ....
.... snubs the very guy he owes his young tripping life that fostered Jobsy's bastardly act of also snubbing his own out-of-wedlock flesh and blood daughter.
Why am I not surprised of this Arrogant Bastard who only loves MONEY MONEY MONEY supplied by all you Apple Kool Aid Drinkers???
Missed you Webster
Another reason for the rebuff?
Psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy doesn't actually work.
Jobs is still alive? That's what wikipedia says!
Mr Jobs needs new Liver.
Livers are in very short supply.
Mr Jobs has lots of money.
Mr. Jobs gets new liver , very quickly.
Doctor said he was an urgent case.
Mr. Jobs has said recently that he didn't really have a health problem , just a hormonal imbalance.
In America the rich get anything they want.
@Charles Manning & Hud Dunlap & Webster Phreaky
@Charles Manning - WTF?? Heres a simple math problem for you *coughmoroncough*:
If Bill gates give 30+ million to a charity that previously had no funds or was about to close, and Steve Jobs gave nothing, regardless of how much he is worth, then who is the better man? (Understand I am not saying that Jobs hasnt given *ANYTHING* but fact of the matter is, is that he gave a smaller percentage of his net worth.
@Hud Dunlap - Evil Gates icon with how you praised him? Wrong icon I think? Maybe?
@Webster Phreaky - Holy shit bro I missed your usual rants for the last month. What happened? I was nominating people to take your place seeing as you dropped off the face of the earth. Glad to have your anti-mac rants back. I missed them :)
biggest problem I have ...
.. with alot of acid use in the late 60s and 70s is being told I'd have flashbacks ...
.. and dammit .. haven't had any ! ..
.. what was the topic ? ... oh .. Jobs vs Gates charity ..
.. neither is obligated to give away fortunes .. Gates ( with Murdock ) are financing great work on reducing Malaria and other common tropical diseases .. more with less than UN-WHO does, good for them .. *why* isn't relavant ..
.. and now for a refeshing aside ..
"Think for yourself. Question authority.
Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening,
terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we're
going in this ocean of chaos.
It has been the authorities:
the political, the religious, the educational authorities,
who have attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rule,
regulations. Informing, forming in our minds an inner view of reality.
To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to
immerse yourself in a state of vulnerable open-mindedness--
chaotic, confused vulnerability to which you owe yourself.
Think for yourself. Question authority."
-amanfrommars err .. wait .. umm .. -Timothy Leary
The Phreak is back!
Long live the Phreak
Long live the Phreak
Long live the Phreak
(sick twisted sociopath that he is.. life is still far more interesting with fucktards like him around)
((happily typed on a Mac))
(((which I love. And paid for with my OWN money. Money taken from my KOOLAID savings piggy bank)))
Like the affable guy from marketing he's relaxed and trendy with all the hippy credentials and a stone cold drive for personal wealth.
Is right. This simple fact was recognised way back by Biblical writers, if you have 30 sheckels then giving a pebble to the Temple was no big thing. If all you have is a pebble then giving that pebble gains you instant access to Heaven.
As has been seen, Jobs was almost a lot closer to God than Gates.
Whoah whoah whoah! Do you have a license to use that word?
Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained and you can't take Anything with you when you Go ... so do a VIV*
The Hofmann request was for a Third Party "unknown" and who would fault Steve Jobs for realising its worth and acting accordingly.
And I would imagine that Acid opens Portals to whatever you can Imagine and it's True. The Trick though is in Managing the Universally Available Power with Micro-Circuited NeuReal Control and that Ability may be Directly Proportional to Relative Learning Capability and Inate Higher Intelligence Levels, which are all ReMapping Functions in the Brain/the Opening and Closing of Switches in the Pathways of the Mind, with the Brain being the Physical StoreRoom of Minds and ITs Virtual Powerhouse.
I Think I am a Collection of Thoughts....... and in a Coherent String they Phorm a Thread and Create a Reality, Virtually, for Present Viewing and FutureBuilders? Hmmm?
Does anyone have Steve Jobs email address .....
Dear Mr. Steve Jobs,
Hello from amfM. I understand from media accounts that you feel LSD helped you creatively in your development of Apple computers and your personal spiritual quest. I'm interested in teaching more learning about how Long String Developments are useful to everybody.
And one could even cc that to Bill and Melinda, for the premise is surely also valid there too.
And for something outrageously simple and speculatively creative to do, I shall exercise my free will and simply copy and send this thread on a hyperlink to email@example.com and firstname.lastname@example.org :-) Hey, it's Friday. It is what IT's Invented for.
* Virtually IntelAIgent Venture ....... Spend, Spend, Spend, a la Viv Nicholson..... but with Discretion in Valour.
Could it be ...
Could it be that Jobs simply didn't want to throw good money at a half-baked hippy charity?
(Mine's the one with the pipe and bag of gear in the pocket ...)
@ Charles Manning
"Gate's "philanthropy" always comes with strings attached. He's trying to buy karma and little ego-boosting trinkets and cause confusion."
Citation needed. Seriously, what's the deal with posting completely unfounded nonsense?
Bill Gates has given more money to the fight against Malaria than all governments of the world combined. But y'know fuck him, becuase he clearly doesn't really care about people, not really.
He's giving pretty much all of his money to charity when he dies, leaving his kids "enough to do anything, but not enough to do nothing". But, y'know fuck him, because he's clearly in it to just preserve his name and doesn't really care about anyone else except himself.
The world needs people like Bill Gates, and it's a sad day when people like him get slagged off for donating billions to charity, generally worthy charities as well, by people like you.
And, while I'm at it: @Webster and all the other people who bang on about Kool aid drinking - Almost a thousand people died at Jonestown, likening the use of a company's products to the mass murder of a thousand people is really not very nice. Maybe you'd all like to up the ante and make this a comment about the Omagh bomming, the Twin Towers, or similar.
That is all. It turns out I'm in a really bad mood today...
@Webster Phreaky re. Coke Head...etc
Welcome back Webster, we all missed you. Where have you been? I heard you went for a sabbatical in an ashram. What was it like?
A few million?
"To maintain its status as a charitable foundation, it must donate at least 5% of its assets each year.Thus the donations from the foundation each year would amount to over US$1.5 billion at a minimum."
The foundation gave The Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization a donation of US$750 million on 25 January 2005.
.....US$10 million to support .... work on a drug for visceral leishmaniasis (VL).
The Children's Vaccine Program, run by the Program for Appropriate Technology in Health (PATH), received a donation of US$27 million to help vaccinate against Japanese encephalitis on 9 December 2003.
.....a grand total of US$287 million to various HIV/AIDS researchers....
.... Aeras Global TB Vaccine Foundation more than US$280 million to develop and license an improved vaccine against tuberculosis for use in high burden countries.
And on and on and on.....
The foundation does more for heath and poverty than most Goverments!
Imagine he had made a donation and the Daily Mail got a sniff of it. Middle England would be an Apple-free zone...
Nobody likes Gates...
but he does put shed loads of money where it is REALLY needed.
Nobody likes Jobs,
but, but, er,...
I go from being revolted by him, to wanting to do perverse sexual things with him.
Is this normal do you think?
SJ is not your usual rich egotist
There's quite a lot of misunderstanding of Steve Jobs around. If Steve Jobs had donated $1M in response to this letter, there would instead be a muckraking piece about Steve Jobs funding research into illegal psychedelic drugs. The media love to reinforce the egotistical hippy nutcase caricature.
Both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are unimaginably wealthy by normal standards. They both got their wealth by printing stock certificates and selling them, principally to our pension funds on the basis that when we retire we can sell these certificates to another mug and live on the proceeds. This is sometimes called a Ponzi scheme, but it's the way the world works.
Steve Jobs had a personal objective to change the world, which he is not yet done with, whereas Bill Gates wanted to put a PC on every desk and become extremely wealthy, which he achieved some time ago (breaking many laws along the way - Microsoft pays billions every year in legal settlements). He's found something ego boosting to do in his remaining years (and why not), but he's still unimaginably wealthy even after giving half (?) the dollars away, so where was the sacrifice in that? There wasn't one, even if it was good thing to do.
Flaunting his wealth via the Gates Foundation is a burden Bill Gates has to bear (including creating Gates Centers, Gates Buildings and Gates Scholarships, of course). But the 5% of assets it has to disburse each year to retain charitable status are the tip of a 95% iceberg of "investments" which may arguably have a greater effect than the charitable 5%.
Returning to Steve Jobs, I don't believe he is particularly interested in being a wealthy political mover and shaker as Bill Gates obviously is, or in accumulating further dollars except in so far as he likes recognition for his business successes. Most of all, he wants to change the world, period. And he is single minded in that objective to the point of being a social misfit.
"Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained ....so do a VIV* " ..... Update
"Hi. This is the qmail-send program at yahoo.com.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
126.96.36.199 does not like recipient.
Remote host said: 550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable Giving up on 188.8.131.52."
You'd think that they could run next door with it, wouldn't you .....Bill won't mind. He's a pretty straight kinda guy.
Search ARIN WHOIS for: 184.108.40.206
OrgName: Microsoft Corp
Address: One Microsoft Way
No news from Steve, which might be good news for Steve. :-)
hi im just setting up a foundation to help working brits who still dont have enough bloody money !
Jobs May Have No Interest In Quack Study
That Jobs took LSD does not in itself make him apt to pay for research into psychotherapeutic uses if he does not believe that is an appropriate use of LSD.
LSD is considered mind-expanding, and recreational, but it is also known that those who are in a fragile state of mind should not take LSD (even if it's arguable that anyone else might have the choice to do so ethically or not).
Merely having in common the fact that he and someone else advocated use of LSD for a different purpose, this doesn't create a life-long brotherhood of obligation when it's felt the money could be better spent on something else.
Suggesting it's of benefit in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy would be a bit like suggesting that alcohol is of benefit to your toddler when s/he is trying to learn to walk.
I dunno, I think this is one that they may stay quiet about, all those Macs that they use to make the paper and that nice fat NUJ apple discount...
Bill Gates and LSD
The Playboy interview:
LSD is one of the very few compounds that seem to show promise in helping to treat some forms of severe depression.
Try having severe depression - it's a whole lot of no fun, and you will try to kill yourself to make it stop. Surely anything to help reduce that is worthwhile.
I think most people are missing the overall point
Time and time again I keep seeing the same knee-jerk reactions in the comments to any negative comments about apple.
It's no different to the climate debate. Everytime there is an article bringing into question the validity of Steve Jobs' sainthood, these pages get flooded with trolls claiming "Oh, you're so biased".
Actually, it's quite the opposite. Just as with the climate debate, the apple/MS/linux debate is mired in urban myths, and based on "facts" long since disproven or invalidated by time, yet still held as gospel by the faithful.
This is a problem, as any rational debate then appears on the surface to be weighted in favour of the faithfuls argument.
This causes a newtonian reaction, forcing the rational to pull harder in their direction to balance the argument, sometimes even leading them to put forward extremist points of view to counter those of the already extreme.
I often jokingly express a draconian hatred of all things apple, simply to counter the sappy evangalism I encounter. In truth, I don't mind most of apples kit, and I'm sure that for some home users it's absolutely ideal, but the stuff has no place on my network.
Apple are venturing ever deeper into monopolistic territory, whereas Microsoft are heading in the opposite direction.
MS aren't the back-stabbing 1981 globomegacorp omnipotent being they once were. They're a mature and well established software company, and the EUs antitrust attitutdes towards browser bundling are laughably out of date.
In the meantime, Apples tying of their OS to hardware that they've assembled gets overlooked. It's not even their hardware. The only three differences between an apple computer and any other PC are the SLIGHTLY modified bios, the apple logo on the case, and the vastly over inflated price tag.
So, if you want OSX, you have to pay way over the odds for mediocre hardware that's available everywhere else for a fraction of the price? Sorry, but do not pass go, do not collect £200!
If I was explaining this to a rational person with an open mind, a civilised debate would ensue. If I have to deal with a fanboi then, as I've had to with some of our users, a bigger stick needs to be deployed.
We don't really believe Jobs is Satan, but until the fanbois stop sacrificing chickens to their Ipods we will have to keep hammering the point home harder until rationality prevails.
"In America the rich get anything they want."
And this makes America different ... how?
While I have no idea whether Mr Gates' motivations are altruistic or not, I would of course give him the benefit of the doubt and presume he has good intentions. After all, though I view Microsoft as 'teh evil' in their business practices they have also done some good work in so called 'progressive employment practices' notably by including sexuality in its discimination policies.
Having said that, every pound or dollar in Microsofts or the Gates foundation's pocket is a pound not in someone elses pocket. However good their intentions, what reasoning leads anyone to believe that they are more capable of making use of that money than anyone else in the world. Most governments have good intentions, considering the harm they are prone to do why would anyone be so ready to trust someone with far less accountability. To sum up my point, to pursue huge amounts of money and then split it up between what you think are good causes, is at best an authoritarian 'I know better than you because I am more powerful than you' attitude and far less worthy of praise than spending all that time making money in actually helping people.
You ask Charles for citations, while I suspect those most effected by the foundations work aren't in a great position to be publicising the experience.. some journalists have tried to look beyond the aims of the foundation to the actual effects they have. Just focusing on the effects of the fund:
Also note, the article in the seattle times is followed by a decision of the foundation to cancel the review in its investment policy.
None of these articles explore the wider impact of how the money was gained in the first place and whether any good work done can wash away the stain of Microsoft's name, as seen by those who don't view making money at any cost as a benign goal.
Lastly, in case anyone misunderstands me, no I am not an Apple fanboy and have no more faith in Steve Jobs than I do in Bill Gates.
So, Jobs has helped to make the world a better place with easy to use, reliable computers etc.
Gates feels the need to buy his way into heaven, and Jobs doesn't.
I think they are both correct.
Not too surprising
a) Apple is well known for donating less money than most silicon valley firms, rather to global or local causes (not percentage-wise, but even by absolute dollar amounts.) I think this reflects Jobs' policy too -- he just isn't into donations.
b) Probably PR (or perception at any rate) reasons. I've seen one particularly old photo of Jobs, he was riding a harley and looked the part -- he didn't quite look like a Hell's Angel but pretty close. Like a year later, suits all the time. Even his quote about Gates, he seems to view LSD to be something to be done once or twice sometime in the distant past.
@Gates doubters,, Gates is giving away A LOT of money, as the previous big monopolist (Carnegie, head of standard oil) did. Charity is charity, he's put in billions of dollars to good causes. I mean, the foundation's named "Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation" so there's a legacy there (like Carnegie's legacy of having so many libraries named after him, and Rockefeller's), but if it was just for ego he could have paid far less to just have some stuff named after him. It's not, he's putting his wealth towards good causes to do good work.
@Hud Dunlap... Gates etc. (when Microsoft was small) played dirty to outmaneuver his competitors, then took full advantage of the monopoly position they got from this. I don't think dropping acid makes people more or less monopolistic. Gates is worth more *because* Windows sold so much more.. and I don't think karma (from donating money or not) works to give people cancer... LSD doesn't cause cancer, and LSD won't turn someone from a philantrhopist to not. Basically, I don't see any of this as related.
Don't drop LSD unless you can handle and enjoy Psychotic Episodes and SurReal Statehoods.
Regarding paper wealthy individuals, they are live failures if they die still wealthy for it proves that they lack the imagination to create greater wealth with the sharing of personal fortune. Andrew Carnegie hit the nail squarely on the head when he said ... "The man who dies thus rich dies disgraced."
What you can be sure of is that the bankers love such fools as rest their fortunes in their care, for they get to play with it for free, just as if it were theirs.
Ok, now to ponder on the differences between normal and unusual and the mutual pleasures available to participants in perverse sexual things. I might be a while. :-) Some things are best never ever rushed.
LSD is clearly involved with amanfromMars. I'm not sure if his postings are the result of someone on a really groovy trip, if dropping acid is required to make sense of them, or both.
Mines the one that looks like it's made of liquid fire... can't you see it? It's hanging by the big purple dragon making love to the pink unicorn in the magical field over there!
@AC 15:33 re. amfM
"....by the big purple dragon making love to the pink unicorn ...."
You have just created an obscene image of inter-species sex in my mind. I now have to give myself up to the police. I'll tell them it was your fault !
Watch your blood pressure, all that anger can't be good for it.
Pint icon, coz he clearly likes some bitter.
I chose the Evil Bill Gates Icon on purpose. While he has done some very worthwhile things with his money. And to my understanding more than Jobs. The fact of the matter is he has destroyed a lot of people getting it. He used his money and political acumen to make a mockery of the anti-trust laws and home computers are poorer for it.
He reminds me of Andrew Carnegie who used to be the most hated man in America until he hired a publicist.
... is doing good unto others with *no* expectation of thanks or even recognition. If Bill Gates wants to be seen as altruistic, perhaps a little less self-aggrandisement is called for. Sure, he's giving away 5% of his mammoth wealth every year, but -- by Codd! -- does he want you to know about it.
Quite a bit of money given to charity is swallowed up in administration costs. Spending lots of money on something doesn't make that something inherently better, any more than throwing money at a problem always makes it go away more quickly. Money isn't always the answer.
As any decent programmer will tell you, if your basic design is buggered, no amount of code optimisation is going to make it noticeably better. Spending money wisely is far better than just pissing it up the wall on random charities in the vain hope that one of them actually pulls it off.
The very first Live Aid concert took place almost exactly 24 years ago, in July 1985, yet Ethiopia is still much as it was. Lots of money was given away... but what good has it done? Many of the water wells dug during the '80s have long-since dried up and been left to rot away through lack of ongoing maintenance and follow-through. This reliance on empty, short-term gestures is far worse than doing nothing at all: it creates a culture of dependance.
I'm with Jobs on this: most charities are literally a waste of good money. (Charities suffer just as much from internal politicking as any other organisation, profit-making or otherwise. Just look at the controversies surrounding groups like Greenpeace.)
I'm willing to give money to genuine, measurable research, but vague, hand-wavy "gesture" charities can get stuffed.
Re @james obrien .... Posted Friday 10th July 2009 20:54 GMT
This new tale is a PR disaster for Billy boy Gates...... http://cryptogon.com/?p=9810 .... and would reinforce your suggestive that he hires a publicist.
With the Capitalist Markets in Meltdown, the Panic Reality Attacks of the SubPrime Movers are getting ever More Desperate and Unreal rather than Radical and SurReal. Paying for a massive seagoing fleet by selling insurance policies in hurricane-prone areas is much closer to a work of madness than genius though. And when that is the case, a good Shrinking Publicist would be money well spent.
And there is something distinctly fishy and rotten about the Goldman Sachs stolen proprietary trading code story now, with its attacks on Russian entrepreneurs playing them at their own game and winning.
Welcome to the Great Game and Advanced Intellectual Property Arbitrage ..... Virtual ZerodDay Trading Programs ........ AIdDisciplined Development for the Quantum Communication of Virtual TelePortation into Inventive Reality Areas and Broad Band Caste Zones ..... SMARTer XSSXXXX Underground Networks for Global Operating Devices.
And their AIMission? ...... well, you tell me and I'll tell you if you are not wrong. That way we'll all get to know what everyone is thinking and y'all get to know what amfM HyperRadioProActive IT is doing..... and can do for you, with or without you.
this isn't a bloody race
What's with the amateur psychology? Bill Gates is reallocating pretty much all of his resources (over the long-term) to ameliorating diseases in the 3rd world (not pissing it away like those Live Aid idiots). The people whose lives (hopefully and probably) will be improved by this couldn't care less about whether he gets a warm and fuzzy feeling out of it. Steve Jobs so far has chosen not to - perhaps he will, perhaps he won't. That's his perogative.
Everyone everywhere should do acid at least once. Otherwise how can you know what you don't know? Such a subjective experience would require a lifetime's objective research, or just 8-12 hours on a sunny day.
A single Psychadelic experience can show you how to spot the historical, cultural, societal evidence of humanity's perpetual lusting for tangible spiriual experiences. What's not to like?
So Bill Gates apparently gives away 5% of his wealth to good causes. Forgive the financial naivety but surely that's far less than the interest he earns on investments and high interest accounts anyway? Just his dividends from Microsoft shares alone earn him over $100m a year, how would giving away $1m be even slightly noticeable to him?
All very well praising Gates for his philanthropy but it's easy to be generous when you're disgustingly rich.
Simply more complex truths
"Such a subjective experience would require a lifetime's objective research, or just 8-12 hours on a sunny day." .... By Anonymous Coward Posted Saturday 11th July 2009 14:27 GMT
AC, It is engaging to ponder and wonder that tripping experiences are much more objective too and thus would they be quantum episodes with both perceptions served in another which is completely different and false enough to be imagined real .... to only disappear because the visions are not shared to be reinforced and energised with Conscious Energy via Intellectual Property Dumping.
e=mc2 created from Nothing but Thought a whole New Scientic Industry which Generated Business and Fear .... and the Boom and Bust Control that Routinely Cynically Destroys them with Both for the Selfish Cycle of Regenerative ReBuild.
The Real'm of Heaven on Earth...
...is within each and every last blinkered nobbled limpin' one of us. Consciousness is continuous; Life is everlasting. This is so for you yourself, Gentle Reader, because because you contain within yourself the entirety of all Creation. (Nothing less, nothing more, nothing else is either necessary nor indeed worthy.)
Item: You and I and all our siblings and neighbors are all without exception from Heaven, that being our origin from the beginning, just for start-point. "Christ in you, the Hope of Glory" expresses a Greater Truth than many Born to the Cross might at first realize in the universal Human Experience at the core of all our individual beings.
Skull it out from there with Best Quality Sacrament aforethought, Gentle Reader; the ever-emerging Forbidden Truth'll dance a big ol' happy John 8:32 Dance with ya' sooner or later, every time. Plenty Cosmic Giggles up for grabs along the Way Home, too. Just keep the Faith fulltime (don't ever false out) and keep on/busy knowing/remembering who you *really* are - and how free we all still always are, no matter what. And Not Dead Yet, as well!
And live accordingly. Don't fight your own best blood and/or Spirit. Go with 'em and *live*.
Always a Saving Remnant; always Genuine Sacrament on Earth - some good way or another at all times for those who will take up with Efffective Prayer while living well on Earth. Leary and Owsley inter alia planted very good seed in some fine fertile ground, here and there Back in the Day imvho. (
'Twas legal then. The paney dose,
doth spark and spinkle on the tip
o'Tonguey, then with Inner Nose,
the Meta-Fnords... Decrypt.
The Clear Point was *always* to Bring It Back Alive. Some of us did. Too many to mess with. Best Example Ever. Not Dead yet. Hope o' Glory Good Morning! Trippin' Hyppeez Won. GrayFace zilch nada longtime now.
Warning: Ones' advanced degrees in this historically ancient line of study in Human Development don't come cheap. Being proved by History agaian and again to have been right about things thirty years into the "future" just does not pay the rent all by itself; I ain't up for a crucifyin' today either.
So hunger and thirst after it and trust Heaven for the longterm result over a lifetime or don't bother dabblin', but there's never any other time like the present moment, is all I can tellya'. One CAN get There from pretty much No Matter Where. ;)
@ walking turtle
That's easier said than done.
In the (probably misquoted) words of Pratchett, 'There was nothing - then it exploded.'
We are all made of star stuff.
Bill Gates is good and Steve Jobs is bad - no, SJ is cool and BG is a nerd - no, ah screw it, they're both just these guys, y'know...
I grew up with DOS and PCs, I prefer Windows and hate iTunes; maybe, if I'd grown up with macs, I'd have me an iPhone and Mac air. Strange thing is I did acid a long time ago, and I don't give to charities (on any sort of regular basis). I'm confused.
From a great scifi film with cute James Spader, 'Stars die so that we may live, and we die so that stars may live.'
A pint for everyone!