back to article Europe won't pay more for Windows 7. Really!

A senior Microsoft executive has denied the company will increase prices for Windows 7 upgrades in Europe because of the ongoing investigation into Internet Explorer. Microsoft will not offer an upgrade version of Windows 7 to users in Europe. Instead they will be offered the full version for the price of an upgrade. This is …

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Linux

Just shows....

If they're offering a less competitive version over here, then clearly Linux becomes a more viable alternative than it was before.

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64-bit is 30p more?

Why?

And if you're going to have a price difference, why isn't it 32p more? ;-)

And where's the 64-bit edition of Ultimate?

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Linux

I'd be more likely to pre-order

What the title says.

£50 for Home Premium or £100 for Pro.

Someone ought to tell Microsoft though that the Pre-order site doesn't work too well on Firefox when it's running on Linux, funny that as I thought they'd be targeting Linux users with this offer (I must admit I am tempted to upgrade one of my machines).

Rob

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Anonymous Coward

Thanks a lot

So, thanks to the European Commission, who really ought to have the consumer's interests at heart, I won't be able to upgrade my existing PC, I'll have to reformat it and rebuild it all with a fresh install of IE-less W7, when pretty much the first thing I'll want to do is install IE.. before having to reinstall all the software I already have. Thanks a f*cking bunch.

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Gates Halo

30p more

for the 64bit version. Hmmm. Which one shall i choose. If the price difference is that negligible why not just charge the higher rate for both, or stop selling the 32bit version.

Oh, yeah it's Microsoft. What was i doing thinking logically.

32bit fanbois et al please start flame throwers now.

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Big Brother

I'm confused...

So when they say that Win7 will be a 'full pack for the price of an upgrade' do they actually mean a _full_ retail box edition of the software (sans an easily getable internet browser) for the normal price of an upgrade retail box? So if I've already got an XP license then I can dual boot Win7 and XP because I've got two licenses if I buy the "EU upgrade"?

Or is there some Redmond flim-flam going on and it'll be a restricted license in some way?

Got to say that if it _is_ a full box (complete with licence) then Microsoft and the EU get a thumbs up for me. And I'll probably order 3 kits if I can (just as long as it's proper Windows 7, none of this "buy VIsta and we'll ship Win 7 to you when it's ready" b.s.)

Damn, I actually get to feel positive about Microsoft for once... I'm going to have to lie down.

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Prices

Those "upgrade" prices eBuyer let slip are what full version operating systems should cost in the first place.

The *only* operating system I've ever bought separate to a new PC was Windows 95 (~£60 IIRC), and if the prices are low enough, then I might do it again.

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Boffin

Can anybody confirm...

... if the 64-bit version of this - er - um - thing is able to run 16-bit software (DOS or Windows)? Certainly the 64-bit XP beta that I played with many moons ago could not do this.

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FAIL

A slight oversight perhaps

How do they expect people to download an alternative browser without a browser to download it with in the first place...

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UK loses out again?

Quote from Ed Bott:s article: "Do you need more than Windows 7 Home Premium?", page 2, http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1128

"All editions of Windows 7 will be available in x86 and x64 versions and will ship with dual media."

Not apparently over here...

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@eBuyer price differences

I doubt that MS is charging eBuyer a different price for 32 vs 64 bit editions. More likely, it's just eBuyer messing about.

I've seen similar minor price differences from them (and other retailers) on things like ink cartridges, where you'll see things like: yellow, £5.99, cyan, £6.30, magenta, £6.07, black £4.23 all for the same printer.

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Thumb Up

Micro2003 and MicroXP

I have been playing with Micro2003 a cut down slip stream versions of Windows Server 2003. Some points to note;

1. Very much lighter on both CPU usage and Memory, ideal for servers with a specific task in mind, Go1984 for instance was 99% CPU and 600MB RAM now 70% CPU and 270MB RAM.

2. No Internet Explorer and lots of other things missing hehehe

3. No Windows updates so what you get when you set it up is how it stays.

I find it amazing that Microsoft can't leave out Internet Explorer when some hackers with nLite can do so much more. I expect there will be a Micro7 soon.

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Pirate

I aint paying jack.

I'm learning Ubuntu! I've had enough with Microsoft. if I need to, I will be pirating 7.

I paid full price for vista ultimate. what a mistake..

..which microsoft refuse to fix (they will be releasing 7)

..which microsoft admit is crap (they brought forward 7)

..which microsoft think I should pay twice for! (both vista and 7)

I am no longer a paytard.

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@CareTaker "..or stop selling the 32bit version"

Because not everybody has a 64-bit processor...My parents use an Old 3.2ghz P4 system w/ 2GB Ram and an old GeForce 6600GT, currently running Win7 32-bit and it runs perfectly. They don't need anything newer as they literally use it for casual web browsing and sending emails...no need to upgrade to a newer system.

Win7 is better than XP though, so it's better to give people still using 32-bit HW the choice of running the latest (and best so far, imo) Windows available. If only 64-bit was available they would need to upgrade their PC if they wanted to buy Win7 when it is released and the beta expires.

Personally I will be going for the 64-bit version all the way!

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FAIL

Obligatory Title

www.microsoft.com Main Article: Get Windows 7

www.microsoft.co.uk Main Article: Introducing Windows Vista

I'm with anon above. Not Paying Twice!

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Megaphone

good.

i hope we do get charged more and then maybe the EU will get the message that they are a bunch of cocks.

was that a flying pig selling rocking horse shit going passed my window ?!

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System Requirements

Nice to see that Amazon are clued up on what you need for Windows 7:-

Windows 7 Home Premium E (PC)

by Microsoft

Platform: Windows XP / Vista

No customer reviews yet. Be the first.

System Requirements

* Platform: Windows XP / Vista

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Re: I'm confused

>> So when they say that Win7 will be a 'full pack for the price of an upgrade' do they actually mean

>> a _full_ retail box edition of the software (sans an easily getable internet browser) for the

>> normal price of an upgrade retail box? So if I've already got an XP license then I can dual boot

>> Win7 and XP because I've got two licenses if I buy the "EU upgrade"?

>>

>> Or is there some Redmond flim-flam going on and it'll be a restricted license in some way?

Exactly they biggest difference between an 'Upgrade' and 'Full Retail' is the licence. I suspect this will be an upgrade licensed version, which can only be installed from scratch. Not that it makes much difference, I don't think anyone in their right mind would attempt to upgrade an installed Windows system - surely better to do a fresh install.

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Anonymous Coward

Reduced pre-order prices???

So those in America can order W7 for $50....not a bad price if it works as well as they claim.

However in the UK the pre-order bargain price will be £80. Hmmm...isn't $50 about £30 ?

Perhaps the extra £50 is for shipping and handling - is that reasonable for a download?

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Please charge more in Europe

.. then the monopoly might end and people will start developing PC games and app versions for Linux. EVERYONE will be happy!

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Stop

Re: Thanks a lot

Actually the decision to ship Win7 without IE was taken unilaterally by Microsoft. The EU Commission have said they are not happy with MS just going off and doing what they have done.

So don't blame the EU, this is entirely MS's own doing - I'm sure they've done it on purpose so they can say "Look what the evil EU made us do".

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Silver badge
FAIL

@XVar

If your too dumb or lazy to find out how to get a browser by another method, you shouldn't be allowed on the web!

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Badgers

What's the problem again?

What's the problem with MS shipping Windows with IE again? Every now-and-then you need IE anyway, may as well save yourself the hassle of installing it.

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Pirate

@ Thanks A Lot

Surely there's no problem. Get an upgrade version compatible with the key given for the full version then snag an alternate installation disc or make your own. Not quite rocket science though it's rather redundant taking an existing Vista PC and "upgrading" it to Win7, as if it'll really matter much. You're better off just leaving the OS on it that it started out with, with one past exception being the late adopters of WinME after Win2k or XP had arrived.

As for having IE non-integral consider it the blessing we've always wanted. If all they wanted was to prevent IE from running they'd simply get rid of the executable and disassociate the otherwise associated file extensions, but if it takes this long to do it we can hope the entire HTML engine is gone so also the large mountain of vulnerabilities that result from it are gone as well.

Now that the EU has things sorted out, how about a full version at upgrade price for the rest of the world MS? Seems only the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

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FAIL

@Red Bren

hang on a min let me just research that on the web.. ermm..

if you are refering to getting a cd on the cover of a magazine thats all a bit 1990's isn't it? mind you it seemed to work for netscape..

command line FTP is a ok if you know the addressess.. i'll look that up.. ermm..

newsgroups could provide links for ftp but thats a lot of searching sans google...

what do you propose? for the average EU user?? (yes the average one!)

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Any more than $29 is too expensive

OS X Leopard v2: $29

Windows Vista v2: $50 - $319

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@AC "Thanks a lot"

Why would you want to upgrade your existing OS with a new one? Surely anyone would do a complete wipe before installing a new OS and have a zippy fresh system.

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Anonymous Coward

"Average user"

"what do you propose? for the average EU user?? (yes the average one!)"

Who is this average user that can clean-install Windows knowing it doesn't come with a web browser but doesn't know how to put a Firefox installer on a USB stick?

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Linux

@ Daniel Harris 1

"...currently running Win7 32-bit and it runs perfectly. They don't need anything newer as they literally use it for casual web browsing and sending emails..."

Install Ubuntu on their computer. Save money & time maintaining.

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Anonymous Coward

"Average user"

yeah pretty much anyone who clean installs will more than likley be OK have USB drive, other PC, mobile phone etc..

the inlaws won't have a clue but they wouldn't clean install either...

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I don't get this...

...strange propeller head love of Linux and the misguided idea that it's easier to live with than windows. Contrary to popular belief Linux is not the savior of all home computing and it sure as hell is not the savior of Enterprise computing. It's just not polished enough.

As much as the Linux crew might like the idea, the rest of the world is not going to give up and stop using Windows...

Sorry...

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Boffin

@what do you propose? for the average EU user??

> command line FTP is a ok if you know the addressess.. i'll look that up.. ermm..

1. Start -> Run

2. Type "cmd" and press [ENTER]

3. Type "ftp releases.mozilla.org" and press [ENTER]

4. Log in as "anonymous" and press [ENTER]

5. Enter your email address as your password.

6. Type "cd pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/3.5/win32/en-US" and press [ENTER]

7. Type "lcd c:\" and press [ENTER]

8. Type "get "Firefox Setup 3.5.exe"" (note double quotes) and press [ENTER]

9. Open "My Computer" on your machine and go to "C:" drive.

10. Run "Firefox Setup 3.5.exe"... Enjoy!

Note because of client firewall, I am unable to test this, but have used similar procedure to get my little foxy before on other client sites.

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Gates Horns

I thought this site was for tech professionals?

Why is everyone so miserable that Windows 7, which from what I've heard still doesn't have any major advantage over Vista - or even XP*, won't be shipping with IE in Europe?

*oh it has touch screen support now? Who has a touch screen? That's right, nobody. Poor show.

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Silver badge

How get browser without browser?

For those users who are used to a point and click everything, who need a wizard to do anything and have no real idea of how to use a PC, MS could simply provide scripts to download a choice of browsers via ftp. Alternatively their telephone based support could walk users through a ftp download of the users' browser of choice. They should provide this service for free, but that would entail altruism on Microsoft's part, and to be honest I have seen more rocking horse shit than MS altruism.

And no I will not be buying windoze 7. MS have made billions off the backs of unsuspecting beta testers, oh sorry consumers. They should give the OS away for free as a thank you to all those who have suffered during the years of transition and development from Windows 2.0 to Windows 7.

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Anonymous Coward

VAT?

I'm not sure if VAT covers the entire price difference, but what people often forget is the prices quoted for computer goods in the UK and the rest of Europe include VAT, whereas no such national tax exists in the US.

Therefore their prices do not include local and state sales taxes, which will be added whether you buy the product online or not. Some places have none (like Anchorage) others have multiple sales taxes that exceed the 17.5% you will soon be returning to.

If you see a difference beyond this in the price, then fair enough, Europe is being price gouged.

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FAIL

@Daniel Harris 1

"Win7 is better than XP though"

Exactly how is Windows 7 better than XP? I've played with Windows 7 and apart from the fancy graphics and DX10 for games, I don't see any benefit in switching. It still doesn't like some of my legacy apps that Vista baulked at (and they're not very old apps).

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WTF?

@what do you propose? for the average EU user??

Would that be the average user who buys a PC with Windows Whatever on it, then uses that same PC and Windows version unchanged until the next time they decide they need a newer PC?

The nearest those users ever get to performing a fresh install of Windows is when their PC craps itself under the weight of accumulated malware, dodgy device drivers and general random cruft and the tech on the helpdesk tells them to nuke everything and reinstall from the recovery CD that came with the box.

It all seems like "look what the EU made us do! It's THEIR fault!" grandstanding by Murkysoft anyway. Wonder what they intend to do with new PCs? Ship them with IE missing, but available on a separate install media? Ship them without any browser and then blame the EU? Or let the OEMs deal with it?

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Stop

You get both

The reason Ebuyer is showing a 32bit and a 64bit version is they are not selling Windows 7 but they are instead selling Windows Vista with an option to get Windows 7 when it comes out. With Windows 7 you get both the 32bit and the 64bit version in the same box.

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Thumb Up

Excellent!

Pre-order prices...

£50 for Windows 7 - Home Premium (full version without IE) (including tax)

vs

$50 for Windows 7 - Home Premium (upgrade) (excluding tax)

...I'd take the UK pricing any day! I plan on buying 2 copies as soon as the pre-order is available.

Incidentally the x86 & x64 versions ship together on the same dvd, MS don't sell them separately any longer.

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Headmaster

@Red Bren

Maybe people who do not know the difference between the posessive "your" and the contraction "you're" should not be allowed to contribute to comments boards?

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Terminator

Simple Solution

Provide a separate browser install CD as part of the pack. There is guaranteed to be nearly 3 cubic ft space in that glossy m$ box that will contain a CD/DVD install media, a comic manual of about 3 pages (the more detailed version), and an EULA that dwarfs the comic. The browser install CD should be possible to squeeze into that cramped space. It should include all the latest stable versions of the more popular browsers, perhaps some of the more obscure ones too. At least you have a choice, and you don't have bling forced on you. The key thing is that you have a choice.

What I don't understand is why an OEM install of windo$e can't have IE removed without breaking the system. It must be heavily embedded and intertwined into the o/s. OK I can see the point of using common libraries, but I bet your IE free w7 box is nearly as vulnerable as one with it because most of the supporting libraries are still there, and heavily embedded. So much as I'd love the EU to get one up on m$ I don't see this as progress. In fact, will windo$e update still work if you use Opera or Firefox to access it ?

@Steve ten Have : I love my Linux systems ! However, I have to use a lot of commercial software that is m$ only for work. As long as I don't lose work due to m$ instability (that often :-) ) I can live with this as the alternative is uneconomic, much as I'd love to see these apps ported. More important is having a job and being able to feed my family, so m$ use is a fact of life. However, thank heaven for all the GNU software that IS available to use on any platform, so my m$ workstation is much more flexible :-).

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Silver badge
Linux

@Andy Gibson

"Why would you want to upgrade your existing WINDOWS OS with a new one? Surely anyone would do a complete wipe before installing a new WINDOWS OS and have a zippy fresh system"

There, fixed that for you.

Everyone else who uses a proper OS that does not behave like an industrial strength kruft magnet can continue on doing regular upgrades as usual.

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Silver badge

MS could simply provide scripts to download a choice of browsers via ftp.

I expect there will be such a script, and an icon to run it but only for IE. I think the whole reason for for the no-IE version is an attempt to avoid having to ship windows with installers for other browsers. I'm sure it will be very easy to install IE. The first time your run win7 and it downloads patches it might even ask if you want IE.

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Paris Hilton

Priceless

MS PR lady: you cannot compare EU prices with US prices due to VAT in EU. But you cannot compare pre-VAT prices either as VAT is always paid.

Paris b/c it makes sense to her.

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