The real news is....
The real news is that there are still Microsoft Fans out there.
Windows enthusiast site JCXP.net is asking fellow fans to delete the Opera web browser from PCs and devices in an act of solidarity against European antitrust action. "Today we are proposing a complete boycott of all Opera software," David Taraso, editor of the JCXP group, wrote in a blog post late on Friday. Taraso blames Opera …
The real news is that there are still Microsoft Fans out there.
uninstalled it from my computer and smart phone. Who the hell do the EU think they are telling companies what they can and cannot put on their own products
All sides in this pissing contest are wrong. Yes, everyone. Possibly even me.
Bundled tools aren't bad - not being able to adequately remove and substitute them is bad.
The EC chose the management method out by imposing one restriction and not thinking about their wording - and Microsoft complied to the letter of the ruling, while spreading shitloads of FUD to cover their arses. This website's imbecilic kneejerk reaction doesn't help either.
An adequate solution would have been for the EU to force MS to make available the system hooks for their bundle tools so that others can code replacements - and rather than suppress the bundle tool, give users an option to remove it entirely.
The fact that a lot of game launchers (or other 3rd party tools) auto-invoke MSIE through themselves to get a web connection for anything makes an IE-less Windows basically impossible - had MS been forced to publish the hooks would have made integrated replacements much more viable.
So instead, MS gets to maintain their market share (pacifying the managers), everyone gets to suffer IE a generation longer, blackhatters get to rejoice, and arseholes on webforums get to geek out with another "delete <competing browser X day>" action. Nobody scores - awesome!
I guess they would have no problem if IE were completely removed from the OS (unlike just lying about it), including Opera and requiring Microsoft to charge $35 for any distribution no matter how?
Of course they would because they are Microsoft employees, Microsoft ISVs or just Microsoft promoters.
That much is obvious.
And consumer oriented group would insist upon a real choice. Not buying IE first and having to go through hell to get other browsers. But, that was obvious too.
"Spread the word that you're out there, the world should know, but not by taking down your competitors - that's just silly"
Hello pot! Meet Kettle.
All together now, children - if the biggest boy in class is always picking on the little kids, it's the one with the guts to stand up and tell an adult that gets his head kicked in.
Microsoft, just buy Opera for an outrageous sum and summarily can the entire project, staff and hardware. Kill it with fire. THAT will shut them the hell up.
Oh, and EU Commission... grow a fucking brain.
I hope they will also stop using Google's search engine as a protest against that company's role in this despicable anti-Microsoft action.
"One Bing to bring them all and in the darkness bind them"
Vista did it for me - now I'm happy with Opera on Ubuntu.
What a bunch of butthurt sissies. Let's boycott a browser almost nobody fucking uses anyway. You'll overturn the EU's decision by Christmas!
"but not by taking down your competitors - that's just silly"
Pot, meet kettle.
Clearly this individual has no idea of the sheer scale of market abuses which have been carried out by the particular company they seem to be so in love with.
Greetings and Salutations.
1) I use Opera for about 95% of my web browsing. The ONLY problems I have run into are on websites that are so badly programmed that they will ONLY work with IE or Firefox, or, since I also run Linux, require some M$-Centric thing like running an Active-X control. It is a great piece of software, in that it is small, fast, and, very solid.
2) M$ will have to work very hard and very long to reach a point where they have the moral high ground in the software world. They have such a striking history of underanded and overbearing dealings to push bad software that they already start from a losing position. Their
FanBoys are nothing more than the annoying imps, scurrying around one's feet and poking at one's ankles with their little pitchforks, attempting to be significant.
Not that I have a bad attitude about Microsoft and its software, of course. I just seem to run right on the verge of ulcers from the stresses of having to keep the blasted systems running well and virus/malware free. The Linux systems I administer just keep ticking along...it is great.
You are right.
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Opera is more like the mouse turd that tooted....insignificant.
As for Microshi-, they can sit on my thumb and spin, in fact both Opera and Microsoft can!
Lessee .. Opera Software is a small piss-ant of a company that puts out a browser that's not very popular outside of the smartphone universe. Microsoft is a heavy-handed monopolist that likes to bear down on the OEMs who bundle its products with their computers, and has been convicted of such by at least two different governments. Oh, I see it now. Microsoft's plight is SO OBVIOUSLY Opera's fault.
<<Today we are proposing a complete boycott of all Opera software>>
Yeah. Who'd notice?
(No jokes on "Opera Win-free", please!)
What percentage of the 0.01% of the internet that uses Opera is also pro-Microsoft and would favour them over Opera?
I would say that probably 0.00001% of internet users will heed this particular call for action...
/Opera user on Ubuntu
Microsoft shouldn't be force to bundle and support opposing products. That is the exact opposite of free markets and monopoly power abuse. Then you get legal issues that sprout up over bundled browsers copyrights and implementations. This is one reason why a lot of linux distrobutions don't bundle free but closed license products.
The only solution that I find workable is to not bundle IE with oem versions of windows. That way the manufacturer can choose the best browser to fit the systems they put together. No OEM would even consider selling a machine without a browser. The retail versions should have a browser because without one they won't be able to download an alternative.
I use and enJoy opera(since version 3.72), but their idea of a boot up choice of browsers is taking one companies evil market share grab as an excuse to pull one themselves.
I highly doubt a bunch of microsoft fanboys would even use opera in the first place. With current market share, most web developers won't even support it.
Which division of Microsoft do you work for again?
Much better than allowing the competition to score isn't?... Pure MS style after all.
'Taraso compares the browser ballot idea with General Motors being forced to hang an air freshener in their cars suggesting, "Perhaps you would prefer a Toyota?"'
No! It is more like saying 'you have a GM vehicle, now, would you like to use GM maps on your satnav or some other mapping system?'
No one is suggesting that the user should be offered a different OS as Taraso seems to imply.
So much fuss over such a silly thing - ultimately MS is producing and marketing a product. Use it or don't. Regulating them to hell and back so they have to offer countless versions seems plain daft. And suggesting they should bundle the other major browsers with Windows as well is just wrong - my is Microsoft obliged to market and distribute someone elses software?
I agree with Jeroen regarding the system hooks, and it should be easier to remove IE entirely and replace it. Simple as.
Perhaps a similar case will arise next regarding the calculator tool?
I mean for heavens sake, Microsoft are no angels, but expecting them to be a pack mule for other companies software is just pathetic. if people want to use Opera, Chrome, or whatever browser floats their boat, it should be made relatively easy for them to do so - but MS sole obligation is this matetr should be to make IE replaceable without having to jump through hoops. they certainly shouldn't have to strip IE from their releases.
Ultimately if people hate Microsoft that much they'd resort to petty cajoling, they should just switch to Linux and be done with it.
Quoted: Taraso compares the browser ballot idea with General Motors being forced to hang an air freshener in their cars suggesting, "Perhaps you would prefer a Toyota?"
Poor analogy. Actually, it is more like "We've included a broken radio in this car, perhaps you would prefer standard's compliant radio that works?"
Wrong - EU is telling your employers that they should not abuse their virtual monopoly.
"Spread the word that you're out there, the world should know, but not by taking down your competitors.."
Ya, Microsoft hates it when you emulate it's business practices.
I'll make you a deal... You make me a nice, fast, un-bloated browser that works on my N95, and I'll consider trying that instead of Opera Mini.
As for my desktop... Firefox baby :-p
has Opera got that with a 1% share of the userbase Microshills are afraid of it?
It's reliable, quick in operation, excellent for managing downloads, has a speed dial function, uses tabs, works well on many different platforms. Obviously it's pathetic that a tiny little company appeals to law to restrain Microsoft from using its' corporate leverage to squash competition. Netscape, anyone?
Jesus Christ, stop it already ... any excuse to bash Microsoft. Don't you have anything better to do? Oh... I forgot. Trim the ponytail and goatee and you *might* get a job. Geeks!
"Opera's demands that Windows 7 include a "ballot screen" for users to select their choice of at least five preloaded browsers."
Microsoft should actually do this, but just not include Opera as one of the browsers. Petty, but funny too.
Microsoft have been asking for trouble..
Has no-one else noticed the change in IEs title bar - it used to be Microsoft internet explorer, it's now Windows internet explorer..
They get the hassle they deserve.
The BIG problem with excluding IE from Windows is - - - How does an average Joe User get online on their new PC to download a web browser - without a web browser.......
* For specific values of nobody.
Open your eyes defiant. Microsoft have stifled competition for years by bundling. Putting IE on a level playing field is good for us as consumers as competition results in better products.
Using your position as a monopoly (Windows) to gain an advantage in another field (Browsers) is illegal for just this reason, and I support the EU's decision.
that wouldnt; work eithe.r
if it's up to the oem , what will they install ? 9 to 1 that it'll be IE. simply because most people will not buy a computer if it doesn;t come with IE.
how many people that own a windows based computer have ever heard about opera ? how about firefox ? how about chrome ? how about ie ? ( note : i am not saying :using. i'm asking the question how many people have heard about... so you coudl place a cehckmark on multiple browsers.
if you then take the total number of computer owners and compare with the number of checkmarks for each browser i think it will look like this
IE : 100%
Firefox : 10%
Opera : 0.5%
Chrome 0.01 %
Safara 0.000001 %
anything else : approaches the reciproke of infinite
I'm usually the first to jump on the anti-M$ bandwagon, but I can't say I agree with Opera in this case.
Forcing Microsoft to bundle or advertise competitors' products in Windows is just ridiculous, and M$ dispatching an OS with no browser is equally stupid. Unless they have an Opera installer lying around (which your average idiot...sorry, user is not likely to have), then their only option to get on the internet to download an alternative browser will be to get IE through Windows Update, at which point, unless they are already familiar with alternative browsers, they will just be happy with IE and stick with it.
I agree with Taraso that Opera should be doing some real marketing to get their browser better known. Opera has been responsible for alot of the browser innovations that have come out in recent years (tabbed browsing, speed dial, smart history) but they are still barely known because they never shout about it.
They need to make an effort to make themselves better known, preferrably by some route other than throwing their dummy out the pram and whining that IE has an unfair advantage. Firefox is in the exact same situation they are in, and they have carved out a decent market share because they make themselves known. It's certainly not because they have a superior browser.
Flames; because the Firefox fanbois are going to make me regret that last comment!
someone actually paying for a browser - even when that was what was expected?
I can't see Opera actually making much money when there are free alternatives that work well
Who the hell uses Opera anyway these days? I tried it once on my Desktop a year ago and hated it. It had couple unique features but is a big yawner overall. Uninstalled it after 1 day. Heard the phone version gives the full HTML look so I tried that also on my Blackberry Curve. It was slow as hell. Dumped it for Bolt right away. Bolt is faster and easier to navigate.
Opera can't make a product worth my time so they cried uncle to EC. Losers. There's no need to boycott. Just leave them alone and they will fade away in no time.
Erm... Opera is payware...
Operatards, like MSTards, are just looking to "cash in" on this whole "unfair competition" hullabaloo.
2/3 of the users I talk to use Firefox. The other third just got their login credentials for their bank/credit card/WOW account/whatever stolen through an unpatched MSIE vulnerability, but claim there's "no way they'll use anything but Microshaft's browser."
Personally, I question the whole "antitrust" thing - just because IE is "there" right out of the box, doesn't mean that you MUST be fool enough to use it. Same with WMP.
.... how cute. All we need now is a "leave Microsoft alone, hasn't it suffered enough?" video on Youtube
While I think the ruling is a bit silly, it's no worse than the treatment everyone else gets from MS so I have no sympathy. Someone once explained what's wrong with MS more succinctly than I could: " ... taking down your competitors - that's just silly."
How many friends can Microsoft fans have anyway ?
Said it before, will say it again and again and.......don't care which browser comes with which OS, just as long as I can TOTALLY remove it and install a browser of my choice
That is all
damn the EU for stopping a already huge company from becoming a monopoly eh?
Same folks who complain about mobile providers locking data tethering etc support MS who do the same
Exhorting people to delete a piece of software that they most probably do not have and per definition would not have if they followed the exhortation must be the most bizarre pastime I have encountered in the recent past.
Burning time by posting crayon-drawn pictures of antropomorphic furry animals in various states of sexual activity is positively enriching and productive in comparison.
"Hello!!! Do I really need to explain to you how ridiculous that is?"
No sir. Indeed not.
Well that's clever, let's remove all programs of a company who is based OUTSIDE the EU to have a complain at the EU's directive.
Oh there's another stupid American who can't work out that Norway seceded from the EU decades ago, so thinks it'll make an impact.
"Norrrr way? Is that like just outside of Dallas?"
That's really going to make the regulators change their minds, isn't it?
Also consider this: If you're a Windows user it probably came with your PC, doesn't necessarilly make you a Windows fan does it? If you bothered to download and install Opera then you are probably an Opera fan. So the majority of Opera users with Windows are probably more likely to be fans of Opera than Microsoft. So this could well be something of an own goal. How many Opera fans are likely to scour their machines of all traces of Microsoft as a result of this?
@Defiant: You clearly thought it was good once otherwise you wouldn't have it on there would you? Are you that stupid that you install software that you don't even like? Actually, don't answer that, it's pretty clear how stupid you are.
News just in... apparently David Taraso has been found murdered. Police have recovered a sharpened Peek-A-Boo hack from the scene!
On a serious note: I read David T's more recent post and I can't believe how weak his arguement was. For example, apparently the fact that MS have pursued Google over antitrust issues and Google likewise versus MS, these things are all completely fine. Somehow it's *only* this issue that is a problem. Oh, and David also states that he doesn't really know anything about European antitrust laws. Great work there David... well done!
As far as I'm aware, no decision has been taken as to what needs to be done, but the reason why the EU (and oddly enough, Opera) are somewhat less than enthused at MS's remove-IE solution is because that's likely to have a net result similar to Windows-N.... e.g., it won't change anything! But the EU have stated that they are taking previous remedies, including Windows-N into account whilst deciding what to do here.
Yep, MS having to ship competitors products would be a bit weird for sure. But the reason for this proposed solution is because MS have a near monopoly position in the OS market place and have a history of abusing their position to move into other markets.
I'm interested in why any MS fanbois care. First up, Opera are not competing with MS as regards Operating Systems. So if Windows ships with IE or Windows ships with Opera, MS still get paid the same and users will continue to use Windows. And leading on from that, why do the fanbois think that MS cares?
The answer is: MS want to have IE available as a tool to extend their platform, so it is likely to be used to extend Silverlight market share for example. Opera conversely would favour standards compliance because that provides them with a level playing field. So would Mozilla, Google, etc.
Whilst IE8 is almost as good as anything else as regards standards compliance, MS only produced this after years and years of punting IE6 and telling us that that festering pile was as good as it gets and that they wouldn't be developing it any further. The only thing that forced them to produce IE7 and then IE8 was erroding market share and possibly the threat of EU action.
If the EU does nothing, everyone suffers. Even if you're an MS fanboi, why would you want IE to have market share?
I'd get rid of Opera and replace it with IE. If I could.
Firstly, for some reason Adobe CS3 insists on installing a crippled version of Opera somewhere in the bowels of my system, purely for the support documents...
Secondly, the horror that was Vista made me try a Mac when my venerable Vaio Z1 with XP died. I couldn't believe what I'd been missing. So no chance of installing IE on OS X!
So, no dice Bill. I like what I have, and I'm staying with it.
I love opera. Even though im currently on Chrome.
My list is
Something | --- REPEAT * Infinity
I can imagine. Install Windows 7 and have a popup
*Which web broswer would you like to install?*
Microsoft Internet Explorer 1 (With Latest Updater)
Microsoft Internet Explorer 2 (With Latest Updater)
Microsoft Internet Explorer 3 (With Latest Updater)
Microsoft Internet Explorer 4 (With Latest Updater)
Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 (With Latest Updater)
Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 (With Latest Updater)
Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 (With Latest Updater)
Microsoft Internet Explorer 8
And a scroller bar that doesnt seem to work. If you get to another browser. It will magically (Crash)
Honestly, if you're a "fan" of a software company you need to get a fucking life and perhaps try to have sex once in a while.
Also, Microsoft have been treated like any company that has used unfair and unlawful business practices, so stop your fucking bleating.