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back to article Cartoon lion urges Lancs kids to dob in terrorist classmates

Primary schoolchildren in Lancashire are to be shown a police-produced film warning about the danger from terrorists, and urging them to report anyone with "extremist views" to the authorities. The message is illustrated using the story of Catholic extremist Guy Fawkes, whose views apparently "began forming" while he was at …

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Good old Guido....

The man to ever enter parliament with honest and straightforward intent.

Here in the UK the state seems to think too much of itself. I'm not for a second advocating the blowing up of parliament, but getting children to watch out for extreme views is a little bit Stasi for my liking.

I have extreme views - I think there's a hell of a lot wrong with our model of government and the people that execute it - but that doesn't make me a terrorist.

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're-telling'

Not sure if you meant to imply they were spinning/lying about Guy Fawkes getting some of his religious views whilst at school. It was thought that he did indeed cement his views on Catholicism place in England whilst at York and that some of the people he conspired with attended with him.

But then it's kind of stupid him being a figure head for anarchists like he has recently. He wasn't an anarchist, he wanted to forcibly install a government that shared his religious views.

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wtf

i would go nuts if the police subjected my kids to this !!!

brainwash em while they're young !!!

funny how they used a white terrorist cause there are so many examples of them ....

anyway guy fawkes probably had the right idea

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Unhappy

Damn

Now my kids will shop me to the thought police if I don't buy them all the shit advertised on the telly.

Please stop the world I want to get off.

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Anonymous Coward

hmm

Wonder if there are wonderful prizes to be one.

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Disgusting

Why don't we make the children afraid of adults, each other, hell, the entire world. Get them used to doing whatever the police say in order to thwart teh ev1l t3rr0rists.

And Guy Fawkes was not a terrorist.

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Stop

Child abuse

Firstly, what kids at school are not violent? We used to play army and pretend we were blowing stuff up at school... now that makes you a suspected terrorist?! christ!

Secondly, it's not right to be using kids as spies... this is real Orwellian stuff happening yet again! Program kids at an early age to pry and spy... they become used to living under constant surveillance and such things as spreading rumours about people they dont like to get them framed as terrorists. The hitler youth were similar... you know, the very kind of society that millions of men died for fighting against...

Kids don't need to know about terrorism, it's wrong to push bogeymen on them, it will affect their whole lives. Let kids be kids while they can, don't turn them into a weapon as they cease to be kids.

Does anyone else think that 'initiatives' like this are more likely to create successful 'Guy Fawkses'? Am i wrong to hope?

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Extreme views?

Like the fact that innocent bystanders should be clubbed, or that people running from the police should be shot dead? Or do they mean extreme view like people ought to be held for up to 90 days with no evidence because they own more than one mobile phone?

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Guy Fawkes? Terrorist??

Rolemodel more like!!

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Where...

...are the pictures? How am I supposed to hang this additional nonsense in my cube without pictures??

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Anonymous Coward

hmmmm

is it me or is Guy Fawkes looking more and more like a hero to us?

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This is a dangerous thing

OK, so now we're being taught to fear our friends and school mates as terrrorists? then if we suspect anyone, we're to snitch on them? Indoctrination of this kind was something I thought we had managed to leave in America with McCarthyism. This kind of teaching does not breed trust and good relationships, and it's a difficult message to teach even handedly.

The part about drowning, and how to cross the road are part of a kids education, but the above makes me wary

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'Streetwise'

So they're showing a cartoon like this to 10 and 11 year olds, they'll not even think twice about it, you need to treat them with respect at that age, it isn't like they're four years old ffs.

Why not just make a computer game about stopping terrorists, oh wait, we have 1000s of those already.

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First steps...

Well... it's fine as far is goes but really anti-terror awareness and countermeasure training should be introduced at kindergarten level and children of all ages should be encouraged to report anyone - friends, teachers, siblings, parents - whose views (whether couched in terms of denial to stay up late, let another child play with a certain toy, etc. etc.) may suggest latent terror tendencies in later years.

It is well known that children are acute judges of character as well as being fair-minded and tolerant, and the benefit of increased security these measures will bring will vastly outweigh the any theoretical disadvantages. The likelihood of juvenile ethnic profiling in the playground, the chanting of "Jihad! Jihad!" or "Terrorist!" etc. and subsequent psychological trauma from "terror bullying"; the malicious invention, misattribution or misinterpretation of remarks, opinions etc. simply to get someone else in trouble, etc. should not be overestimated - or exaggerated by those obviously unconcerned with public safety. Given the seriousness of the situation, which is readily apparent even to children, we can be confident that they will behave appropriately in recommending others for re-education.

Careful consideration should also be given to the compulsory playing of "Onward Christian Soldiers" to unborn babies so that they are adequately prepared for the terrorist doom they will inevitably encounter...

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Anonymous Coward

Kids, here's a fun mask

http://order-order.com/2008/11/04/cut-out-and-keep-masks-for-tomorrow/

The statistical probability is that children will never ever meet a terrorist, all their information is therefore a false positive and a nasty slur, a libel or slander, against an innocent person. Worse that slur can get people imprisoned without trial for 28 days. The rozzers are indoctrinating them to believe that terrorists are all around them, when they are not.

Why are teachers letting policemen scare the bejeezus out of small children?

As I said, order an NE555 these days and the Terror Police will put you under surveillance, instead of encouraging your love of electronics. It is not safe to grow up in the UK right now and people need to keep their heads down till we can eject this unelected idiot. and bring the police back within civilized norms.

This: "The terrorism message is also illustrated with a re-telling of the story of Guy Fawkes, saying that his strong views began forming when he was at school in York."

Guy Fawkes was not a terrorist, he was an attempted murderer. He didn't seek to achieve political change by inducing terror in politicians, he sought to achieve it by inducing *death* in politicians.

Did they choose that for more modern political reasons? (See blog above).

As I said, the unelected leader needs to be ejected and the police need to be brought back to reality. It is not right that they seek to induce fear in small children in order to justify their inflated budget and unmoderated powers. It is not right that they arrest people for photography or equate bottles in bins with terrorists.

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Be afraid be very afraid, very very afraid

I remember this when I was a school (a few years ago now)

Growing up in Belfast the climate of fear which was breed into children was intolerable and inhumane. Fear everybody and everyone you don't know thinks the same as you.

I met my first Protestants when I was 14. I can still remember the way my skin curled before it happened and wishing I had something to defend myself. I was speechless when this kid just like me walked in. When the 'contact worker' asked me what did I expect? All I could think to say was somebody that I didn't like and could not trust and that wanted to kill me. Nice to see the lessons of Norn Iron have crossed the water and are now being used to influence a whole new generation.

Using Children in this way is unacceptable and is just storing problems for the future. Oh and for those that think it's to report their friends, its not. It so the kids will tell stories about their parents and what the adults they come into contact with are talking about.

Build up the mistrust between factions in the community. That will cure the problems

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Paris Hilton

Good write-up...

...but bad content, as in, this is a bad thing, but does that mean the story should be rated good or bad?

Confused of Tunbridge Wells

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But what of the parents?

Did they mention informing on one's parents for having ungood views, as well?

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Black Helicopters

Get them while they´re young

15 years from now: an entire generation conditioned to solve their personal squables by reporting their enemies "suspicious behaviour" to the authorithies.

Now where did I heard about this before...? Oh right, it was in nazi germ.... *THUD*

*&@$%¨%¨""^....

No Carrier.

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Yes but who's day is it?

It's GUY FAWKES DAY ! Not ' those-blokes-who-stopped-Guy-Fawkes's day'. Not thought that one through, I reckon.

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Coat

in view ...

Voila! In view a humble Vaudevillian veteran cast vicariously as both victim and villian by Lenny the Lion.

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Erm...

Doesn't Guy Fawkes count more as a freedom fighter than a terrorist? :D

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@ Lionel Baden 1

"funny how they used a white terrorist cause there are so many examples of them ..."

Yeah cos the IRA were.....

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Extreme views, eh?

So, the 8-year-olds will be turning in their schoolmates because they think that chocolate milk is yucky, and the 13-year-olds will be turning in their schoolmates because they think that the PS3 is better than the 360. This will be incredibly useful!

Yeah, and the actual serious comments the other people posted. Yikes. Scary stuff this...

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Boffin

Good grief

Who'd have thought all these years later that Trev & Simon's Saturday morning "Stay In Your Homes!" sketches featuring government agents thinking nigh on everything was dangerous would become so close to the truth?

You've got to be so phenomenally careful when simplifying things for kids. It's still a family joke about my being convinced that smoking turned people's lungs into jam jars due to an illustrative model where said containers held cotton woolinto which fag smoke was drawn by a vacuum pump. And that an 80's iteration of the stranger danger campaign had me paranoid in crowds for several months.

Of course the thing that's never mentioned with the stranger danger campaigns is that the VAST majority of people involved in doing nasty things to kids are not strangers.

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Nest stop, Hitler youth

and after that, recruitment as PCSOs

Really, this is indoctrination. I would not be surprised to be told that some of these children discover that they can use this technique to "get back" at other kids, or teachers [1] they dislike - just by reporting them for thought-crimes.

The obvious next step comes when they leave school. Now they have no need for third parties, they can become the accuser, judge, jury and executioner all in one - just join the cops and become revenge incarnate - with absolute impunity for making people's lives a misery on the flimsiest of evidence.

[1] Although getting revenge on teachers is much easier, and career-killing. Just make an unsubstantiated (and maybe even anonymous) accusation of sexual misconduct or physical abuse. It won't have be investigated, the teachers won't have the chance to refute it, yet it will appear on extended searches forever. No wonder men don't become teachers any more.

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Opt-Out

And of course if you were to decide that you don't want your child watching such propaganda, you'd instantly become a viable target for "closer scrutiny". It's lose/lose.

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We don't...

...live in a police state.

Unfortunately, the police think we do

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Black Helicopters

Obligatory 1984 reference

From "1984":

'By the way, old boy,' he said. 'I hear that little beggar of mine let fly at you with his catapult yesterday. I gave him a good dressing-down for it. In fact I told him I'd take the catapult away if he does it again.

'I think he was a little upset at not going to the execution,' said Winston.

' Ah, well -- what I mean to say, shows the right spirit, doesn't it? Mischievous little beggars they are, both of them, but talk about keenness! All they think about is the Spies, and the war, of course. D'you know what that little girl of mine did last Saturday, when her troop was on a hike out Berkhamsted way? She got two other girls to go with her, slipped off from the hike, and spent the whole afternoon following a strange man. They kept on his tail for two hours, right through the woods, and then, when they got into Amersham, handed him over to the patrols.'

'What did they do that for?' said Winston, somewhat taken aback. Parsons went on triumphantly:

'My kid made sure he was some kind of enemy agent -- might have been dropped by parachute, for instance. But here's the point, old boy. What do you think put her on to him in the first place? She spotted he was wearing a funny kind of shoes -- said she'd never seen anyone wearing shoes like that before. So the chances were he was a foreigner. Pretty smart for a nipper of seven, eh?'

'What happened to the man?' said Winston.

'Ah, that I couldn't say, of course. But I wouldn't be altogether surprised if-' Parsons made the motion of aiming a rifle, and clicked his tongue for the explosion.

'Good,' said Syme abstractedly, without looking up from his strip of paper.

'Of course we can't afford to take chances,' agreed Winston dutifully.

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Black Helicopters

Children as spies? Gobsmacked.

I think this is probably well intentioned, but by God, there are some dumb f*cks running this country. This is the kind of sh*t that was poured int he ears of my Russian ex whilst she was still at school. You know, before the Iron Curtain came down. You know, when Stalin was in power. She still calls him The Devil.

When we start fearing our own children and neighbours, we will surrender the last vestiges of freedom we currently possess.

Resist these idiots. Spend the money on some f*cking history lessons instead, please.

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Black Helicopters

Toads, Lions?

Judging by the amount of road kill I see, I certainly wouldn't take advice on crossing a road from a toad.

I'm also not likely to take advice on terrorism from a fecking lion.

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Anonymous Coward

guy fawkes

how is he not a terrorist?

he planed to kill King James I, his family, and most of the aristocracy.

if someone done this today they would be called a terrorist.

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Stasi 2.0?

'nuff said.

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Linux

Bonfire Night

Anybody just think this a very longwinded way to get rid of BonFire night

We know the Gov dont like BonFire night because:

- Ability to obtain various explosives

- Celebrates the attempted murder of the Gov

- He was white

- Firecrews decide they want to put out every bloody bonfire these days

Is this just a really strange way to get Children to think Guy Fawkes was a really bad man and complain to the police about it.

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Anonymous Coward

A Lion warning kids about Guy Fawkes?

Tinfoil hat here;

Is it just coincidence that people are protesting Scientology dressed up as Guy Fawkes? Scientology which uses a lion as one of it's devices? If coincidence it could prove God has a sense of humor.

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Anonymous Coward

Be vigilant!

Remember, kids: anyone who knows a heretic - er, terrorist, I mean anyone who knows someone who might be a terrorist is also guilty of terrorism. So be sure to report at least one person just to be on the safe side.

As a way of scaring everyone shitless I could see this being highly effective in the long run, but as a means of gathering intelligence it will just generate a lot of noise.

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Anonymous Coward

@ac 15:03

He was not a terrorist he was a freedom fighter

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Black Helicopters

re: Obligatory 1984 reference

When will the government learn that 1984 was a *warning* and NOT a handbook!

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Black Helicopters

All about intent

If I were to kill 10 people because I wanted them dead, I would be a murder. If I were to kill any 10 people because I wanted everyone to live in fear of being killed I would be a terrorist.

Clear Guy Fawkes wanted a named set of people dead, so he is a murder.

Actually I suppose I could even use threats rather then actual killing to make people afraid then I would also be a terrorist.

Maybe I could get everyone to be suspicious of each other an so they would live in fear. That would also make me a terrorist.

So, pretty much anyone that tells you that you are at risk of being death is a terrorist. Reductio ad absurdum. (Special merit for Dr Gillian McKeith)

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Lancastrians - what do you expect?

Traitorous bunch the lot of em. Give em a chance and they will join up with some welsh bloke, kill the rightfull king and take over the country - they've done it before.

They need keeping an eye on, especially if you see a bunch of em marching toward Leicestershire.

ps. Guy Fawkes wasn't behind the Gunpowder plot, he was the explosives expert. The plot was by a bunch of southerners, but when you need something technical doing right you need a Yorkshireman.

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Unhappy

A couple of years ago, when Waqui was first in power...

I commented on here somewhere that 'we will come to realise that we live in a golden age of democracy that is coming to a close' or some such high sounding bollocks.

Little did I realise that it was going to end so quickly.

We have perhaps another 5 years to reverse the trend, and then the fascists will have enough power to treat libertarians as terrorists, and that will be that until the cycle turns.

Which is a bit of a shame really.

Best get my kids to report me when the time comes, so they aren't tainted when I'm dragged off.

Christ I wish I was joking

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It was probably stuff like this

that Guy Fawkes was subjected to in when he was in school, or at least some other form of blatant lies, hypocrisy, propaganda or attempts at brainwashing "appropriate" to the times. I wonder will the plods be releasing a video warning of the perils of giving the government and their agents too much power, or of collecting too much information on peoples' private lives, or of exchanging freedoms for promises of security? I think not.

One other thing... taking advice about crossing the road from a toad? Round here frogs and toads are among the most common bits of roadkill...

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Anonymous Coward

If I remember correctly from school

Wasn't Guy Fawkes guilt based largely on his signed confession. The signed confession obtained after torturing him so much he could barely sign the thing.

Not much has changed really has it?

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Now this gives me an idea

SInce we seem to be going down to using children to spy on adults, its given me a a great idea and business oppottunity

So roll up roll up to the great sale.

1. Rats in cages £5

2. Leather whips £10

3. Hidden camera £25

4. Sneaky prole informants £100

5. Doublethinking agents £1000

All available now from the Ministry of Justi-- oops love

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Instead of a lion...

...they should have used a boar named Napoleon. That would fit nicely.

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Lion

Naturally, what other animal could represent the Crusader?

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Anonymous Coward

Fantastic

I hope the message sinks in and they report their RE teacher for holding extremist views relating to sky fairies, and the history teacher for their potrayals of violent crimes. Theye're everywhere, these terrorists.

I'm glad I don't have kids. I would despair and resent their constant manipulation and use as pawns in social control.

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Anonymous Coward

I think...

I think people are getting confused between Guy Fawkes from history, the character in V for Vendetta and the self important blogger.

1) Catholic who wanted to overturn a democratic government to install his own

2) Fictional Character (who admittedly was the good guy in the movie/comic)

3) Twat

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1984 not quite the litterary ref here...

It's plenty of shades of John Ringo's "Road to Damascus," given the article.

(Not to mention the best possible BOLO book out there, IMO.)

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Just a Mo....

Isn't Lancashire where that race riot shit happened in a place called Burnley a while back? I remumble going for a job interview there once upon a time when shit was going on. Wet, harsh, windy and totally miserable, on the day.

Go figure.. if you care.

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