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back to article 'Lunatic' Smith doubles ID card costs for Mancunians

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith today confirmed that Manchester volunteers will be allowed to pay a total of £60 for an ID card from later this year. The price tag on the ID card will remain £30, but the Home Office is now estimating the cost of biometric enrollment, payable to the high street stores it hopes to recruit, as a …

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Anonymous Coward

Checkpoint Jacqui

This is a something that fascists and communists, you know the one's responsible for mass executions on a grand scale, do every time they get into power, they produce an ID system first.

UK liberty has always been finely balanced, it is very much a cultural thing of fair play and stiff upper lip, this Jacqui character (sounds French doesn't she), has done her level worse to ensure the UK becomes a dustbin of racism and authoritarianism, that is the Labour legacy that we will all have to work to undo.

And isn't this Jacqui the one who spends tax money on pornography for her own titillation at our expense, how can anyone take her seriously after that, she is debauched.

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Anonymous Coward

If...

someone assasinates her, can we give them a medal or name a new bank holiday after them or something?

Please?

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Stop

Dear Ms. Smith.

I'm going to aquire some sheets of plastic and cut them into small rectangles suitable for you to turn into ID cards. I promise to be careful with the scissors.

I reckon this'll cost me about a tenner but, being a generous soul, I'm going to "allow" you to pay me a million pounds for them.

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Coat

Smith is beyond lunacy and far out into fantasy

Saw a quote attributed to Wacki Jacqui on the bbc news site claiming "ID cards will deliver real benefits to everyone, including increased protection against criminals, illegal immigrants and terrorists,".

I can only assume they come with some sort of uber hi-tech (and so far secret) personal shielding to stop the criminals, immigrants and terrorists getting at you, possibly explains why they're going to cost so much.

Last to leave please remember to turn out the lights

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Alert

Goodbye to the Lunatic

And, if the Sun is right (which would be something of an event in itself), then please let me wipe a tear from my eye (yeah, right) and say bloody good riddance to the mad two-faced bint. The only trouble is who the mad Gordo will replace her with? Mandelson? Jeeez no!

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final nail in the coffin

With the greatest of respect to my local pharmacist, the idea that she may be the eventual arbiter of which fingerprints get associated with which "real name" is surely the last nail in the coffin of David Blunket's mythical "clean database". If ID cards are to be issued on the strength of showing up with a passport, surely there will be about as many fake ID cards in circulation as there are fake passports. What IS the point?

Given that last thing we heard, the cost of fingerprint *readers* hadn't even been put in a budget - still less their production and deployment put out to tender - the value of getting yours recorded on a card must be ... limited: and the over-all cost savings from cancelling the project will be much higher than these ("£1bn from £5bn") government figures suggest,

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Black Helicopters

Wacky by name....

wacky by nature.

If I was a Mancunian I'd be feeling badly insulted that Wacky thinks me stupid enough to *volunteer* to be placed on an Orwellian biometric database and, further, *pay* £60 for the privilege.

The phrase "Turkeys voting for Christmas" comes to mind.....

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Mancunian's n ID cards

The only mancunians to buy one of these dreadful pieces of plastic will be those entreprenures who will attempt to produce fake ones at half the priceof a real one.

To be fair, the fakes will proberbly work better than the real one's.

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Ash
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*sigh*

What does Jacqui Smith want? What's her agenda? Her motivation?

I'm having a very difficult time not comparing her to some far-fetched supervillain from a Bond movie, or Ming the Merciless.

Totalitarian, oppressive tyrant. I'm Liberal, but I think I may well vote Tory just to get ID cards out of the scene. What a sad affair... A 25 year old voting Conservative.

@AC (assassination): Not the way to do it. The next person in her place will just pick up the flag and keep running, only this time they'll have a martyr to the cause.

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Flame

Burn!

The question is, if she was on fire and you happened to be walking past with a screwdriver in your hand, would you attempt to put her out with it?

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Next step

The next step is predictable: create inconvenience for those without a card.

Posting a package over 100g? Save time on the new Post Office anti-terror checks with a UK ID card! No need for your passport or two recent utility bills. Your friendly postmistress will check the ID card photo and scan your bar code.

Council imposed restrictions on your local pub after trouble? Walk straight in with a UK ID card!

Want a seat on that train at rush hour? Beat the security queues with a UK ID card!

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sig

Descartes' dilemma solved

"Transporto ergo sum"

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Flame

voluntary... my elbow.

Voluntary eh, what - like the scheme for pilots? That is to say, you don't /have/ to get an ID card, but if you don't have one, you can't get an airside security pass. Slight problem if you're a pilot, I'd guess.

So... expect to see indirect compulsion within weeks - police requiring clubs to check ID cards on entry or something. Nothing to do with the Home Office, of course, an unrelated quango / agency / whatever will take an 'independent decision'.

And anyway - who will volunteer to spend £60 on something they don't need? Will it entitle you to 5% off at the supermarket, or impress your friends with MP4 playing abilities, or look good round your neck while dancing? No.

As for protection against terrorism & immigration - what horsefeathers. Unless everyone in the WORLD has to carry a UK.Gov ID card its useless against non-UK-originating activities. Might as well claim a condom protects against computer viruses.

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Sixty quid for something I don't want or need?

I just paid for a passport, wtf do I need an id card for? Is there a checkpoint on the road into Salford now?

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Joke

Smith in Manc id wank

Wacky: Hello Sir, would you like an id card, they're voluntary and only 60 quid?

Manc: What are the benefits to me?

Wacky: Well, you'd be fighting terrorism and organised crime.

Manc: How?

Wacky: We take your finger prints, photo and details, enter it into a database and put the details on a card, when a crime is committed we will check it against the database and bingo.

Manc: I see, how many criminals do you expect to sign up for this voluntary scheme?

Wacky: Oooh, lots and lots I would imagine.

Manc: Can we have a General Election?

Wacky: Erection you say?

Manc: Er...... yes I have an erection, would you like to beat me off? only 60 quid and I can give you a receipt to cover expenses.

Wacky: OK.

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house of cards

So the long knives are out for Ms. Smith. A very British coup. Yes, minister?

Unfortunately a new figurehead will not change anything in the way of policy on spying on the populace or the systematic ongoing efforts at tagging, spindling, mutilating, folding and finally leaving the records on a train somewhere (but not before having a ham-fisted attempt or three at converting the data into actual currency, be it merely political or dot com-style net(work) worth).

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@TeeCee

It'll have to be the right kind of plastic - The Today programme on Radio 4 this morning said that part of the government advice for how to check a card (in the absence of any card readers) is to flick it. They apparantly have a unique sound. I kid you not.

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ID cards? Phwoarrrrrrr

Put me down for a dozen. Do I live in Manchester? If you like, why not.

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I, for one...

will flat out refuse to have an id card.

"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My life is my own."

- The Prisoner

And with that I'd also like to say a great big 'fuck you, you fucking crazy neo-fascist scumbag whore-btich from hell!' to miss Wacky.

Anonymous, because that's what we should be to our so-called `public servants.`

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Black Helicopters

Devious, very devious...

"Even the Home Office concedes that "only a small number of volunteers in Manchester" will be able to enrol for an ID card before the end of the year"

In other words, if it's so difficult to get hold of the darned things that they have to artificially restrict the number of them that are available, then when the hopeless few who actually dowant the cards go and register for them, the HO can claim 'high demand'.

Very devious and also very clever. Surprisingly.

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Missing a few billion?

Deeply depressing and proof this is a con was the statement that dumping ID cards would 'save' only a billion or so. I mean multiply the population by £30 (or the more realistic £600) means a tax of between 2 and 4 billion. Add in the other costs of running this system you are into a magnitude more.

The cancellation charge on an initial contract is a small part of the cost. Jacqui knows that (surely even she can't be that thick?) Deliberately seeking to mislead and cheat the people she took oath to serve should be treason. But then when you think the people are just there to pay for your bath plugs and porn - why should she worry.

Dead meat that even the hungriest hyena will walk away from. Oh and I was a Labour supporter.

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You'd have thought...

...from its history that IBM wouldn't want to get involved in the compulsory registration of citizens all over again.

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Ash
Joke

@AC ("Burn")

No, I'd be a good humanitarian and end her suffering.

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Dead Vulture

@Ash

Yup, the last thing we need is a martyr. The way to do it is to hack her computer (we know it's connected via Virgin Media), email some extreme porn (it's illegal now) to everyone in her address book and then stage her suicide. It's a bit of effort, but it'd be really worth it.

The headlines would be great: "Jackqui wacks self after broadcasting illegal porn fetish", though the Sun would come up with something miles better.

Gravestone? It's the only place for her in my dreams.

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Biometric Enrolment

Does the biometric enrolment still include iris scans? If so, I would be interested to know what, if any, testing has been carried out to see how well the system will cope with Ocular Albinism and acute Nystagmis.

The first of these conditions results in a significant reduction in pigmentation in the retina and iris, along with a reduction in opacity of blood vessels. The second leads to persistent, involuntary motion of the eye which cannot be controlled.

Those of us with these conditions are likely to find this type of enrolment impossible, and if staff are not properly trained to recognise these conditions (and others which may lead to problems) will also likely end up very humiliating.

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Anonymous Coward

Embarrassing

It's getting to the stage where I might actually consider voting Tory.

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Black Helicopters

Protection

I feel protected by this already. I have lost count of the number of times i have been to manchester and wondered whether all those people are actually mancunians.....

Thanks Wacqui Jacqui, now your super dooper system will identify mancs for me without the need for them to wear army surplus anoraks and swagger like they have plopped their pants, Kiddohh!

"Its a craaaazy sit- yew-aashuuuun, when all i want is cigarettes and alcohol.....Ere's my ID card fellohhh!".

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Stop

Oh dear...

Remember how this all started. Clean database, iris scans biometric photo and fingerprints, a national network of IPS enrolment centres, scanners in every port, airport, bank, hospital, doctors surgery, solicitors office and god knows where else, all connected in real time to the NIR (but not by the internet).

What have we got now. A photocard which might have your fingerprints and image encoded on a chip, but no-one will ever know because no readers exist. A card whose authenticity is established by flicking it. I'm not joking, according to official guidance it has a distinctive sound.

If anyone can ever find 2 in the same place maybe they could report back

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Flick It

According to Dr Whitley this morning, because there are no card readers available the way people are advised to check if an ID card is the real thing is to "flick it". Apparently genuine cards will make a particular noise because they are made in a special way. This whole thing gets more bonkers by the day.

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To close for comfort

My not so sleepy market town home is too close to Manchester for comfort.

As a native of Salford, I was born a quick joyride away from the Utd. training ground and although I haven't lived in Salford for many, many years, I am still very familiar with Manchester. And as such I can confidently say that if these cards were free, take up would be less than 30-35%. At a price of £30 I am hoping the take up is less than 10%.

What a silly place to roll out such a liberty infringing service that has the potential to track a persons life. Why did she not choose the town or city with the lowest crime figures in the UK? That's I rhetorical question, the reason she choose Manchester becomes obvious when one examines her political career... She hasn't got a clue.

As Mike:Next Step stated, there will be mission creep with this card.. Want a beer/fags from the off licence? Want to get into the pub? Want to view an 18 movie, Want to enter a nightclub? Need to see a doctor? Need a prescription filled? Need Car Tax/MOT? Want to buy a car? Anywhere there is some form of age restriction in place, eventually, an ID card will be the only accepted ID. The majority of Mancunians are not going to fall for this.

@AC:Burn!

Nope.. I would wait until she is dead then piss on her.

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Coat

@Next Step

...absolutely right, Mike.

I remember a comic strip on the back of a Dead Kennedy's single (ah, those were the days) where someone was shouting to the police, "Stop Him! He's trying to buy vegetables and he hasn't got a number" (I think the numbers were tattooed on forearms or foreheads)

I didn't know why it stuck in my mind, until now...

Anyway, I'll get my coat because with no ID card I soon won't be able to buy a new one.

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It's all a bet...

... by the Freemason Illuminati elite to get a home secretary that is worse than the one before.

Take a look at the recent list of incumbants if you don't believe me:

Kenneth Baker

Ken Clarke

Michael Howard

Jack Straw

David Blunkett

Charles Clarke

John Reid

Jacqui Smith

Next in line for the job is a Hostess Trolley from the John Lewis list

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Flame

Overkill

I have a (paid for) photo driving license and machine readable passport also with photo. Why on earth do I now need another (paid for) form of ID?

Apart from which, it took the government long enough to sort out the passports fiasco - I have zero confidence that they:

a) won't screw up planning, rollout and ongoing support like they do with most Gov. IT projects

b) won't accidentally release everyones confidential data to the world like they did with the CDs

c) won't run massively over budget by making unrealistic assumptions like they do with most Gov. IT projects

d) won't subsequently claim it as an achievement when it's quite clear (and everyone knows) it was a dismal failure like most Gov. IT projects.

Has anyone run the numbers - i.e. is £60 per person for everyone in the UK enough to settle the Brownian debt mountain? There has to be a real reason for this madness.

Please bring on the general election.

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FFS!

£250MM already spent of this pile of steaming shite?

That gravy sounds extra thick....

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Anonymous Coward

Grr

1) We're in a recession - why are the government spending my tax on crap like this? Even if the £30 from the users pays for the scheme, it's still effectively a tax.

2) I don't want to live in a police state, and this is a step towards it

3) Why bother? The government know they have lost the next election, and the other parties who will form the next one are making strong noises about scrapping it anyway. (Actually, Labour could win the next election, but they will need to make serious changes, one of which would be binning id cards...)

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Black Helicopters

Tuttle Buttle

Apparently, according to some bright sparks, the following should apply:

"If your innocent of all wrongdoing, why would you oppose having an ID card, you already have a passport, what difference does it make?"

Here's a few issues:

1. It's going to cost a few billion. We don't have a few billion to spend, we'll be in debt for the next 5000 years

2. We don't need another form of ID - we already have passports, drivers licences, birth certificates, banking details, post code info, CCTV cameras, RFID chips in our trousers - the list goes on

3. There's no conclusive evidence it will be any more effective against crime or terrorism than the current ID checks. Criminals don't always wear black hats and terrorists aren't always dressed in white robes with long black beards.

4. We don't trust the government with our data - they've proven a few times now that they are incompetent in this regard, or in fact, incompetent in every regard. Get them out.

5. Jaqui Smith is, more than likely, a mad evil old witch with a fondness for Stalin/Hitler - this is pure conjecture of course.

6. If you've seen the bad guys in the movie Brazil, you'll get a glimpse into the mind of the afore-mentioned soon-to-be-axed mad old evil witch.

7. Gordon Brown doesn't have a lower jaw

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Oh dear

I have a problem with finger print scanners, apparently this is fairly common in oriental blood as we have shallower prints?

I have a fair bit of difficulty with the fingerprint logon on my laptop if there is even a tiny bit of grease/dust, and my trip to New York was VERY interesting when my finger prints wouldn't scan at all *sigh*

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Black Helicopters

Enforced identifications

If Waqui insists on people having them they will become a mark of shame, associated with criminals, government workers (including bankers) and other untrustworthy types who she can bully. That means you will be discriminated against for holding one.

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Unhappy

Life imitates art

I think it was Alan Coren who wrote a short story called something like "Due To Circumstances Beyond Our Control, 1984 Has Been Indefinitely Delayed". His thesis was that no British government could ever be competent enough to achieve a police state, even if it wanted to. If I remember correctly it ends with Winston Smith in Room 101 but "Sorry Mr O'Brien, we're out of rats. Will these white mice do?"

And now, it seems that he was right. Our super secure, unforgeable "clean" ID cards are actually going to be issued by Boots the Chemist. and you'll be able to tell by the noise they make when you flick them if they're real or fake.

I'd laugh if it wasn't for the stupid amounts of money that they've wasted on this fiasco.

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Flame

Retail Outlets

How long before said data is "sold" to the retail outlets to make the price more attractive?

Pop into you local shop, handover your Award card for a "super duper" discount & help make the UK a safer place. Hell they might even try that one to offset the "voluntary" £60 !!!

OMG i hope i haven't given them even more "wacky" ideas.

Labour go away & slowly die.

Come June you will know just how much the UK populace resent you & the crackpot idea's you keep coming up with.

/Flame coz labour are well & truly burnt.

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(Written by Reg staff)

Re: Oh dear

As I understand it the 'problem' with Asian fingerprints is a myth. One of the most successful ID card systems in the world is the Hong Kong one, which uses fingerprints at high throughput booths at the border with mainland China. The vast majority of users of this being Asian, I think it likely you have a fingerprint issue special to yourself. But yes, they do get very ratty at US border control if your fingers are bust, don't they?

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Happy

Lunatic?

So she's moving up the evolutionary chain then?

@dontsurf & SuperTim

Shame on the both of you. I had to get a new keyboard just to type all this.

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Linux

Goverment idea of "Security"

1. Use a SmartCard/RFID Chip that contains all your personal data unencrypted.

2. Use vulnerable software to store said data on the uber-computer

3. Backup said data onto USB and maybe print off a few for good measure.

4. Take a train ride to (Insert place name here) and leave said USB/paper on seat. For Tom, Dick, Bin Laden to find.

5. Claim that it wasnt your fault. Fire the person standing closest to you at the time.

All this just so they can watch what we are doing

(Waits for the RFID readers in lamposts linked to CCTV to have your database ID floating above your head in CCTV videos)

Oh soo damn fun

That penguin is so cute!

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Black Helicopters

Go n the Mancs

Let's hope that the good people of Manchester deal withthis inthe same way as the recent governemnt blackmail backed road charging scheme, and vote it right out of town.

Waste of money, and a huge step into the Police state land!

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Pirate

And the benefits to a Mancunian are?

1) Early sample of hardware so you can get an early crack at breaking the crypto and physical forgery.

Well that's the only benefit to *me*, the user of this piece of nonsense that I can see. Otherwise £60 right down the drain.

Otherwise what? Help plod get you home once your'e blathered? Collectors item on eBay?

Let's not forget that Greater Manchester Police if famous for being the former force of old James "Jesus" Anderton AKA "Gods Cop." Remebered for such gems as gays "Wallow in a cess pit of their own making." So force, sorry, "Service" promotion policy is likely to leave it well infested with senior plods of similar views. Not that I'm prejudiced against God bothering types. After all their practices are legal as well.

Sign because I think we all know what most will be happening to most to most of these.

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Black Helicopters

Consider more carefully if you will...

As much as I dislike the ugly, baggy mouthpiece that Wacky Jacky is, bear in mind that whoever replaces her will still be doing the bidding of the home office civil servants, not Gordon Brown or even the Labour party.

It's not her motives you need to question, she doesn't have motives beyond feathering her own nest as much as possible before being given the boot. Ask yourselves: "Who will benefit from the control of all this information?" It's the civil service, not the government of the day.

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Happy

@ Ash

What is her motivation? What's she like?

More like Dr Choo en Ginsberg M.A (failed) from Round The Horne.

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Hmmm....

So how is small piece of plastic going to stop some mad nutter with a killing fetish from blowing me sky-high, if they so choose? So when I take my credit card to the local town bar and some git clones it out the back, how will this very expensive piece of crap stop that from happening?

I still maintain we should only allow the winning party to serve 2 years tops, that way they won't have enough time after the victory celebrations to do anything stupid like this!

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Backhanders?

You know, a few years ago the South African government came up with a grand plan to spend billions of Rands on a huge arms deal which included ships, submarines, planes, and who knows what else. Almost everyone thought it was a bad idea, that the money would be better spent elsewhere but government pushed it through regardless. Wasn't long before the allegations of backhanders, corruption and personal enrichment schemes starting ringing out, some of which were proved true by the resulting convictions and many more either still under investigation or involving high-enough politicians that they are unlikely to ever come to trial.

The Tories say they will can ID cards if they get elected, which is an entirely likely possibility. You have to wonder why some people in government are pushing so hard to get as much of the ID card scheme through as possible before the next election when it has so little support. The vendors will still get their billions if the plan is cancelled because of cancellation penalties built into contracts they negotiated with the politicians, so there is a great incentive to ensure the contracts are signed before they get voted out.

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Why would I bother?

I don't have any particular objections to an ID card.....mainly because I carry two forms on me at all times (work and Armed Forces) and have easy access to two others (Driving Licence and Passport, Birth Certificate etc). If i wanted to I could apply for others as well. (Age Verification for example).

My main objection is that an ID card will not replace any of them. I asked a question of each of the organisations and the answer was the same. The Government Issued ID card will not replace any of the forms of ID that I own.

Seeing that the government already owns every piece of information that could be associated with an ID card if they want to use it for terrorism or immigration offences, and i already own all the ID I need to apply for a mortgage/bank account etc, can anyone from the govermnment please explain why i would want to spend another £30?

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