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back to article Gov figures show IT jobs crisis

IT and telecoms jobs are starting to feel the pinch of the recession. Although the total number of people working in IT and telecoms is the highest for seven years and demand is up compared to last quarter, there has been a big fall in advertised positions. Permanent job adverts are down 24 per cent and ads for contractor jobs …

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IT Angle

..and bears defecate in the woods...

I guess some people pay for this sort of research... amazing! UK and IT and telecoms jobs have been in steady decline since this government opened our borders to non EU workers. Off shoring is the final nail in the coffin.

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doesn't tally with my experience

.. rates are up in contracting as companies want to get more skills in one person.

My current contract requires Perl, Php, windows, OSX, Linux, MS SQL, Oracle, MySql and then a whole bunch of front end web stuff.

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Black Helicopters

polar bears don't

Well the first two key findings of the report are:

- Continued growth in the number of ICT staff in employment, with the number now at its highest level for over seven years.

- Quarter on quarter, the unemployment rate for ICT staff has fallen.

so I guess some people pay for this sort of research because they'd rather have facts than conspiracy theories about johnny foreigner. You just shoo off back to the Daily Mail now.

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WAP, Active X and COM?

Sweet lord! Welcome to the 21st Century... Please form an orderly iine. (Mind you, only a market researcher would list Active X and COM as different skillsets!)

However, this does tally with what I'm seeing, myself. My suspicion is, that although the amount of work that needs to be done in IT remains the same (and that there is a certain limit on how few people you can have, and still get that work done), there appears to be a retreat towards maintaining legacy applications. I suppose when companies are all concentrating on being able to continue paying their staff, the fact that the payroll application is written in COBOL is less of a worry. In the long run, it's probably a good thing for IT as a whole. A few years propping up the walls on legacy code tends to cure even the most hopeless optimists of the idea that porting everything to Ruby or .NET will solve the world's ills; while a certain amount of each day, spent trying to think how to write queries without using sub-selects, or following the 'logic' of someone who didn't think GOTOs were a bad idea, tends to quell your urge to complain about modern software.

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al
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Paris Hilton

@Trevor Woolnough : probably it's useless for you...

This research is important for big corporations and govt. Mainly for formulating policies. eg: A govt. with severe shortage on core computer skills may ask universities to increase Computer Engineering seats, or, an undersupply of some emerging tech skills may change some immigration policy.

Companies benefit from this information by being picky or slutty while recruiting a particular skill. Or, decide on how much to spend on various corporate training programs.

Individuals can decide whether to hang on to their skills (java) or learn new ones (sage).

So I wouldn't call this a waste of money.

Paris, coz she keeps here skills updated by practising regularly.

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Unhappy

I refuse to call them "consultants"

Those recruitment people are to blame and no they're not "recruitment consultants" any more than bookies are "turf accountants". They are employment agents. I seriously regret ever having put my career in the hands of these fly-by-night shysters.

And just because a job is advertised, doesn't mean the job exists.

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Unhappy

Hmmm

If employers weren't so stupid this wouldn't happen. To save themselves money and time, they get agencies to screen candidates. The agencies they employ to hire workers are in my experience, compeltely ignorant about what various skills are and what they mean.

Example, I sent my CV to an agency for a VB programming job. My CV quite clearly stated that I had 4 years experience in all Visual Studio languages including VB.

When I didn't hear back from them, I called to ask why. They didn't know VB stood for Visual Basic and they didn't realise that it was part of Visual Studio.

My friend had the same problem with J2EE. He had J2EE, JavaScript and applet design down on his CV. The agency didn't seem to realise that this meant he could code in Java.

Idiots. A lot of people I know have had similar problems from a variety of agencies. Often this reaches the point of sending in a tailor made CV for each job with a note saying "Please delete the CV from your records if I am not successful". The CV of course is in language a baby can understand. Even this doesn't always get them to open their eyes..!

It's the only way forward with many agencies and a shocking state of affairs.

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Anonymous Coward

WAP?

I don't think the figures from the government are quite correct....

WAP jobs are up? Seriously? Active X jobs are up? COM?

The adverts you see are mostly not real jobs. They're agencies phishing for CVs and info on whose recruiting, often nothing more than a bloke in his box room at home trying to be an agent, seeing whose recruiting and trying to ring them up and sign them on as customers. They use the same old job description again and again.

Those skills reflect the ones that get the maximum number of CVs not the maximum number of jobs based on previous trawls.

To see the real jobs, you need to be a 'known' developer and those receive the offers from the big agencies directly by email or phone. Those jobs fill are never advertised.

So those numbers are just random garbage.

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"And just because a job is advertised, doesn't mean the job exists"

Too true!

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Paris Hilton

Average wages over £30000?

I remember seeing a CompuTeach advert saying the average earnings in IT is over £30k is that still true?

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Anonymous Coward

@I refuse to call them "consultants"

Agreed but you can use a word beginning with 'c' that uses some of the same letters and has the efficiency benefit of a single syllable ...

In my experience, recruitment people are parasitic slime who are usually too moronic to understand who they are recruiting and for what. Instead. they devote their limited mental resources to conniving as much reward for themselves as possible.

Vacancies advertised by agencies are often duplicated and sometimes fictitious so they are a poor indicator of real demand.

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Anonymous Coward

Those aren't...

Those aren't the ten skills most often requested by employers, they're the 10 skills always requested by employers. As 5 minutes spent flicking through job ads will verify.

Managers know nothing about IT, so they ask that their techies know every possible language the company might at some point use. And to add insult to injury, it'll be a trainee contract and they'll fire you if you ask for more than minimum wage.

Pfft.

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Anonymous Coward

Won't...

....somebody please think of the Cobol programmers

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Great!

I can do ActiveX *and* COM, not to mention SQL *and* SQL SVR! Something about these results suggests a survey composed without much input from techies...

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IT employment is a mess

"The ten skills most often requested by employers are SQL, C, C#, .NET, SQL SVR, Java, Oracle, ASP, C++ and Unix"

Yes and they want them all from the same person for one job. At a low wage. 2 years experience minimum.

The IT industry is a horrible place to break into, especially with regards to programming. The range of skills needed are obscene and no one is willing to train people. When I was job hunting and narrowing searches down to junior or trainee positions. You'd almost never see real trainee jobs. You'd see jobs asking for experienced people but they don't want to pay decent wages for it.

Offer on the job training, focus on getting specialised people (someone who can do beautiful HTML and CSS may produce horrible PHP) rather than expecting job applicants to be all round gurus and pay wages that reflect the level of skill. Someone who can code well in 10 languages shouldn't have the same entry level wage as someone who has standard MS Office skills.

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IT Angle

Saving money using IT

Not everyone is looking backwards. Where I am the shake-up of the company being caused by the recession is actually a driver for junking all the old legacy apps and using IT to improve their processes and save money. I guess they're planning the downturn to last longer than a few months.

Though whether they actually save money is another matter. :-)

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Gates Halo

re IT employment

All this will come to bite the UK IT sector in arse in years to come as no one will have the relevant skills to do the job due all the entry level jobs been sent to countries like India.

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Happy

SQL, C, C++ and UNIX

I always knew there was a benefit to being "old skool".

Vive la UNIX! Vive le C!

We're not going anywhere...

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Anonymous Coward

@hey_may

Computeach now state averages salary is 33k...... Tho I'm sure I saw another firm saying it was 38k....

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Coat

C# and .NET

Don't they realise ...

I spent ages telling someone in detail about my C# experience and they asked "yes, but what about .NET?" Where to these people COME from?

I felt like I'd spent fifteen minutes talking to a bucket of rice pudding.

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Joke

... and my point is

that people who work in IT know whats it like. To say that the UK IT unemployment rate has fallen is total rubbish. Now that Alaister Darling, he knows what hes talking about...

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Happy

well

I know SFA and I'm on above average earnings. Sod programming and all that bollocks.

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Anonymous Coward

CompuTeach

Don't even get me started!

I still get young gents and ladies asking if they can really get 30k after 6 months. i bring them down to earth and say "No, it's bullshit". Yes, it's good to teach new IT recruits, but for the sake of fuck, stop fishing them a line about getting rid of all your debt, worries, bad car, old wife, old house all for just 6 months "Yes, 6 months!". This was like another such company that decided to target Finance workers. Remember those days? Being joined by a bean-counter just because the world was going to end 1999-style? As soon as the millenium went, they all left and went back to being bean counters (I know I know, there are a few that did stay, but full credit to them as they were better at IT than counting..)

Grrr!! Bloody, BLOODY CompuTeach!

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Coat

No Crisis here, much like no Mountains!, just lots of pot holes

the problem with Agnecys and cv;'s is you have to effectivly write x2 cv's in one document.

1st is written with management speak gobboldygook catchy wording

2nd is written as a keyword catcher for the agency software to pick up and post your cv into the relavent vacancys.

the problem with this is that your cv suddenly becomes exceedingly long.

Some companys get put out by the fact your cv is over 8 pages long.

Some others are impressed by the depth of information and how well presented it is.

So its hit and miss on the job application front.

also, 90% of the UK IT workforce is made of Non UK born workers, which trashes anychance of UK nationals getting or staying in IT, as we are all undercut by all the foreign workers offering to work here for peanuts or curry and chips.

the immigration office needs seriously to be upgraded and boosted in staff to deal effectivly with all the surplus non UK nationals stealing the british jobs.

Mines the one with the pocketfull of Euros and ferry tickets....

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Flame

Not another rant about jobs being stollen by the mafia

I'm one of the 90% non UK born IT workers and I haven't undercut by price anyone so far. I started with one of the highest salaries in my company and I managed to constantly get higher than average raises.

Don't worry the moment I will find out that one of my colleagues with the same skill set level earns a lot more than me I will immediately apply for another job.

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Please to be repeating

All of your job is belonging to us! Your manager is being too stupid to care!

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AC 17.06

I bet the non-UK nationals can at least spell properly. Cheers for that Alf Garnett.

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