back to article The Pirate Bay loads cannon with official appeal

The Pirate Bay four, who were convicted of being accessories to breaching copyright laws on Friday, have fired off an official appeal against the $3.6m fine and one-year jail terms they were handed by a Swedish court last week. The BitTorrent tracker site’s co-founders Peter Sunde, Carl Lundström, Frederik Neij and Gottfrid …

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Paris Hilton

bus tickets

Paul McCartney said "If you get on a bus you've got to pay. And I think it's fair you should pay your ticket."

But if you then walk or ride a bike to the same place, the bus company don't come chasing after you demanding payment. Also, there is nothing to stop other bus companies offering cheaper fares to the same destination, if they can afford it.

The Rules Have Changed. Forever.

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Nice lyric from Mitch Benn...

...in his song "Steal This Song"...

"Home taping isn't killing music

Music's dying of natural causes..."

Genius.

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Anonymous Coward

(untitled)

"If you get on a bus you've got to pay. And I think it's fair you should pay your ticket."

And if you stand by the bus pointing out to folk that there's an open back door where you could sneak on, you don't owe any money for any ticket.

Did Macca understand the situation he commented on, or did he just want to generate support for more money for him? I appreciate that some bad relationship decision in the past may have taken him down to his last eight hundred million or so, so maybe he can be forgiven then. I really do sympathise.

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Anonymous Coward

Tosser

"If you get on a bus you've got to pay"

McCartney thinks if you get on a free bus, you should have to pay a fare on the bus you didn't take.

He also thinks that if he drives the bus once, he should get paid for every trip it makes thereafter.

Yes, the analogy is as broken as it was before I borrowed it. McCartney is a greedy tosser.

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Alert

Bus???

"If you get on a bus you've got to pay. And I think it's fair you should pay your ticket."

Even if that bus is 45 years old, 5 years late, costs £8 a ticket and the driver whinges that he's not charging you enough?

Do me a favor Macca.......

When the price model comes down in line with what can realisticly be charged then you can start using whatever analogy your ugly scouse brain can concoct.

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Anonymous Coward

No surprise here

These criminals should be in prison pending their appeal.

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good old macca

"If you get on a bus you've got to pay. And I think it's fair you should pay your ticket."

although if you buy the bus its a little unfair to be expected to buy a bloody ticket for every journey you make

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Stop

So there you have it:

"accessories to breaching copyright laws" is what they were found guilty of and, from a simplistic point of view is exactly what they were doing.

They set up a site which allowed the user to find (almost exclusivley) copies of copyright protected material.

This is pretty much exactly what being an accessory to a crime is.

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Cartoon Bay Verdict Cartoon

Watch my Cartoon and take on the pirate verdict

http://www.pcdisorder.com/2009/04/pirate-bay-walks-plank.html

David Miron

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Joke

Paul McCartney and bus fares

He paid £24.3 million for a few rides, so he should know.

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Anonymous Coward

Macca must be very relieved.

He won't starve to death now that those evil men have been sent to prison.

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Joke

Closet?

Elsewhere, Paul McCartney has come out, unsurprisingly...???

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Boffin

Bus pass?

Hasn't Macca (aged 66) picked up his pensioner's bus pass then? Then he wouldn't have to pay.

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Pirate

When I'm 64

I don't particularly want to defend the pirates, I'm just wondering when Paul McCartney last got on a bus and paid for a ticket - surely he is old enough to qualify for a free pass anyway...

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Want free music? Just buy a radio freetards!

I can't believe the number of idiots who honestly think that they should get something for nothing. If you want free music, listen to a radio station and put up with the damn ad's that pay for the music.

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"If you get on a bus you've got to pay. And I think it's fair you should pay your ticket."

Doesn't Paul McCartney qualify for a free bus pass?

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Happy

...I forgot to mention...

That Mitch Benn lyric I quoted earlier? It was in a song I was listening to, quite legally, for free.

When it comes to music, I'd say Spotify is more of a threat to album sales than TPB. But I'd say it extremely sotto voce, in case someone heard me and took it away.

Sweet, sweet Spotify...

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Anonymous Coward

The entitled generation?

There are a lot of people who belong to the delusional generation, aka the entitled generation, aka, the out-of-touch-with-reality generation. These folks falsely believe they are some how entitled to steal whatever they want. Go to jail and get an education.

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Tom
Alert

Sunde and other projects.

I like the bit where, Sunde is taking time out to Brazil and is working on other internet projects. I do hope there will be move marvels for us to explore in the not too distant future.

Who is this fella Paul McCartney that people are commenting on and what has he go to do with the 21st Century?

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Gates Horns

@AC

"These criminals should be in prison pending their appeal." Perhaps you're talking about the executives of the music companies, who committed acts far more likely to get you jailed for hard time than anything PB did.

Swedish prisons are full - the lads will have to queue to serve their sentences. Violent offenders jump the queue, pushing all the non-violent offenders down.

And when they get there, the one-year sentence will turn out to be a couple of months - they'll be paroled quickly, to make room for people who actually are criminals.

On top of which, Swedish prisons are rather nice by our standards - individual rooms better furnished than your university dorm.

All of which assumes they won't get clear on appeal - after all, their trial was a complete travesty - many Swedes are not convinced the trial actually proved that they did anything that counts as a jailable offence in Sweden.

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The bus ticket analogy...

...isn't a bad one, but not in the way Macca intended it to be. As many of us - but not Mr McC apparently - are well aware, if you're a regular bus user you can buy weekly, monthly or annual bus passes, which not only save you money on all the trips you were going to make anyway, but also then lets you use the bus for other trips which are then essentially freebies. Hmm, sounds like the sort of all you can eat idea many people have been suggesting is the way forward for music licencing, but which the music industry has been rather reluctant to adopt. But now that the idea has been given the blessing of his royal holiness, perhaps they'll take it more seriously...

...yeah OK, you can all stop laughing now!

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Anonymous Coward

Want a free ride? Just be a musician freetards!

I can't believe the number of idiots who honestly think that they should get something for nothing. If you want to get paid, stop pretending that your fans don't care and give them better ways to support you.

Alternatively, piss off and do something else productive. No one owes you a living any more than you owe them free music.

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Joke

@Paul

"I can't believe the number of idiots who honestly think that they should get something for nothing."

It's probably about the same proportion of idiots who think they can charge an arbitrary price for a "product" with a marginal cost of zero and have the public tolerate it indefinitely.

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Re: Which court is next

Actually this'll go to a Court of Appeal (hovrätt) before it possibly makes it to the Supreme Court (which is not guaranteed to take up every case that's appealed from the appeal court level). I believe the defendants have also declared that they'll appeal to the European Court of Human Rights if they'd lose on all levels in Sweden.

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The piratebay haven't broken any laws

The people who are breaking the law are the people uploading the copyrighted material not the pirate bay

If i stood outside a music shop with a sign saying "find your music here" and someone decides to steal a CD, am i the one who should be held responsible for their actions?

The music industry isn't loosing any money, in fact their proberbly making more money since free downloads have spawned shops like itunes, the music industry have turned into thugs, their the scum of the earth.

.

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Boffin

Sir Paul's 2 rechoirmens

"Who is this fella Paul McCartney that people are commenting on and what has he go to do with the 21st Century?"

He is a songsmith who was so badly duped by the Music Mafia that he didn't want to work for the SOBs anymore. This put the Beatles out of business. And so ladies and gents, you can blame the greedy Bs in the Mafia for the demise of a great little rock and roll band.

Had there been an internet at the time I like to think John Lenon would still be part of the band and playing live gigs online. Still, we don't know who else would have hopped it from the maestro's multiverses, legit or not.

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Happy

@GreyWolf

I heard the same thing about the queue for jail at Sweden. You are tried given a sentance than told to go home and wait till they get back to you for jail time

Pictures of a Swedish jail....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUgrYU5xF_s

That place looks better than where most law abiding people I know live at...

and seeing they have computer labs in the jails they could keep working on the pirate bay while serving time or even host the server out of their room ;)

There's also a jail I saw once on a documentary that looks like a country club with kayaking, skiing, fishing, horseback riding, and the guards were there to keep people from breaking into the place not out...

I vote every country should have jails designed like Sweden.

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Boffin

Paytards and Freetards are both equally good at missing the point.

When the bin man who arguably does a far more crucial role for the public good is paid the same as Lily Allen then I'll actually think about buying music again, for now it's Last FM for me until their sued for some reason or another :/ .

I mean think about it, Lily Allen's most recent album has already sold 815,000 copies worldwide and will go on to at least double that in the next two years. In the UK it sold 355,000 copies(1).

If we estimate that the average price in the UK is £8.99 then the sum total of money before deductions is £3,191,450, If we then take the worldwide sales to average around £3.99 per CD then that is another £1,835,400 (£5,026,850 in total).

Now we must consider the current industry cost of production. So what is that we must consider, well there are production fees, media fees and of course the percentage cut take by managers and record labels. If the artist is a cash cow like Madonna then they will receive a bigger cut than usual. Overall costing the rent of a sound studio, a producer, DJ and 4 backing musicians over the period of a 100 hours@£1000 x 6 staff & rent the cost is £100,000 As the industry does not make it's invoices public this is just a poor estimate even so even if you were paying 10000 per hour it's still only £1,000,000.

Obviously the cost of server space and CD imprinting will be minimal if they have made 1,000,000 physical copies @ 50p per CD and case then we're looking at £2,500,000 which sounds a lot, but I am probably over pricing the manufacturing costs (anyone know better?).

So whats left ? A media campaign, managers' fees and the Record Company cut.... factor that in at around £1,500,000 and your looking at an overall cost of £5,000,000 leaving about £26,850 for the artist, and that to be fair is more than the majority of people in the UK get paid for doing arguably more vital jobs. The even funnier pat about this is that the Record Company actually "loan" money to the artists in the first place to cover the costs of the work and then the artists pays it back with interest. Of course we are only looking at the first 8 Weeks of sales as well, so think of all the lovely dosh that's wending it's way to her (at least an extra £3,000,000 by the end of the year).

This is the current system, a system that relies on fleecing the average person to turn a profit. It is a centralized system in which the profits garnered are used to promote already profitable artists or to promote new artists that are deemed fit for profit by company executives. In this system competition, creativity and a fair chance are simulated for media affect.

Shows like Pop Idol/X-Factor in turn are media constructions that perpetuate the myth of a democratized music industry that prides itself on inclusivity and and real creative freedom for musicians. The majority of musicians who win rarely make it big, not because they can't sing but because they don't conform to industry fads/norms. The truth is that the system is a fad generating self fulfilling revenue stream that excludes the majority of bonafide musicians and exploits the majority of the few who it does promote.

Because the system is inherently corrupt people are not bound to agree to it's stipulations. The music industry is a monopolized system that doesn't offer true choice. Many people cite the fact that file sharing is theft, It is true that in Law in many countries it is illegal.

Was the Stamp Act of the 1860's not a legal mandate ? was it not a law ? Of course it was and considering that the average American at the time was taxed at 1/25th the amount the of the average Englishman there was little reason one would feel to transgress such a law. Never the less enough Americans felt the Stamp Act was impinging on their freedom to do basic things like write invoices, take writs or make copies of books. The act and other legal mandates led to the democratic revolution that was mother to our own system of government. In short a Law is only a law if the majority of people believe it to be moral, acceptable, or reasonable (also see the folly of prohibition in America).

Thus the system is wrong and the laws that protect the system are not respected. So a change must be made. I would put forward that artists should club together into local communities receive lottery funding and other grants to build community studio's, produce their own music host it on a government backed but not controlled independent music servers, they are then paid through live shows and a national subscription fee, all artists are paid according to a basic wage of no more than £30,000 pounds increasing with inflation. They make extra money from how many times their music is downloaded from the server.

Any comments ?

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Not_Me,_It%27s_You

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Pirate

Pfft

The legal outcomes of this trial will have no impact at all anywhere else in the world.

Though I did read in awe of how completely spineless the president IFPI was. Backpeddling on the issue of prosecuting the large search engines (google, MSn,Yahoo!) and all of the other usual suspects justr confirmed what a toothless tiger these organisations are now.

There is no way that they will even touch the big guys. Not for fear of protracted court proceedings but because taking on these guys will mean attempting to argue (whine) at the highest levels in the International and US courts. The said whining would then be decided as such, and thrown out. It is this scenario they fear as these courts decisions in many circumstances become the basis of legal precedant worldwide.

Prosecuting a group in the local courts of sweden, IFPI, you deserve to be bitchslapped

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Go

does it even matter?

hhmm, how far from the path must one go to get things 'for free'?

it comes as no surprise that someone accused of software piracy (a video or music file is still software) is linked to a group considered morally corrupt.. yet this individual has not made any political agenda through his actions. unlike many of the so called "good guys" who put down this kind of activity on a regular basis.

file sharing in not something that is restricted to pocket of communities, the Boston Irish do not trade files only with other Boston Irish, the Melbourne Greeks do not profile their file receivers to make sure they are also Melbourne Greeks..

while I am no fan of Anti Jew, or Al Quieda, or Neo Nazi's, nor am I a fan of any other order or group who seek to better themselves or confine others through means of oppression and or violence or even capitalistic greed.. the fact remains that online no one knows you and it is possible that the copy of the Original version of the Princess Bride that you just downloaded for your neice/daughter because you cannot buy it anymore unless you want the modified/enhanced remastered directors cut (ie not the one you want to buy) has been uploaded by a neo-nazi like minded person.... does it even matter who made the site??? and what his personal opinions are?

all this does to me is show the world that we are more the same as each other than ever before.

it's interesting to note that sales are not down, and profits are still strong..

Paul Mcartney is right though, we should buy a ticket... but I am not about to let him make that choice for me

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Boffin

Historical Correction !

I meant 1760's :D, Thomas Paine would kill me but he's dead so phew :d

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Joke

No: Ticket to ride?

No: Magical mystery tour?

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@Paytards and Freetards are both equally good at missing the point.

"I would put forward that artists should club together into local communities receive lottery funding and other grants to build community studio's, produce their own music host it on a government backed but not controlled independent music servers, they are then paid through live shows and a national subscription fee, all artists are paid according to a basic wage of no more than £30,000 pounds increasing with inflation. They make extra money from how many times their music is downloaded from the server."

Wooo, Rock 'n Roll.... State sponsored entertainment. Sounds awful. And your Lily Allen numbers are wrong and also entirely miss the point.

The biggest problem with all this is that it suits the freetard defence to use music as a media example; low marginal cost, relatively low cost of production (or would be if we used the communist model described above), but what about movies? Games? They DO have a high creative cost, but strangely the argument becomes weaker with these media; usually some bullshit about "try before I buy". Liars.

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Anonymous Coward

hum

"They set up a site which allowed the user to find (almost exclusivley) copies of copyright protected material."

Google do the same, before you say they are just a search engine, heres a hint, so it pirate bay! Pirate bays difference is that the USERS upload the LINKS to the files whereas google just crawl for them.

Remember file sharing IS NOT illegal, file sharing of copyrighted content IS illegal. the pirate bay lets you upload LINKS to anything you want be it legal or not, the people commiting the crime here are the users.

And to all the "good , they are aiding a crime", how far do you take that? Are the isp's also aiding the crime as they admit that a high percentage of there BW goes to filesharing. So do you get the ISP's as they are allowing the user to alomost exclusive get copyrighted content? How about the shops for that matter, they allow you to get copyrighted content, befor eyou pay for it you can see it and pick it up etc! How about any page that links to thepirate bay, because remember this case states that LINKING to the material is bad, how far back do you take that, 3 links, 4 links?

Basically reguarddless of the legalaility of everything, technically, this is a bad call as it does break the internet.

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PG

Cost of physical CDs

"Obviously the cost of server space and CD imprinting will be minimal if they have made 1,000,000 physical copies @ 50p per CD and case then we're looking at £2,500,000 which sounds a lot, but I am probably over pricing the manufacturing costs (anyone know better?)."

This is so far out of the ballpark it isn't funny.

Way back when Freeserve happened, I had 25,000 CDs (Internet explorer / ISP sign up CDs) produced for a different free ISP. Net cost per CD was 5p per CD including 2 colour surface printing. 3p/CD was available when manufacturing more than 100,000 units.

Throw in paper booklet and plastic case for another 3-5p and you have a maximal cost of 10p per unit.

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Bronze badge

Re: Paytards and Freetards are both equally good at missing the point.

"Obviously the cost of server space and CD imprinting will be minimal if they have made 1,000,000 physical copies @ 50p per CD and case then we're looking at £2,500,000 which sounds a lot, but I am probably over pricing the manufacturing costs (anyone know better?)."

I think if you're manufacturing 1,000,000+ CDs you're probably looking at a couple of pence per disc. Which brings those costs down to well under 50,000 notes.

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@David S.

"When it comes to music, I'd say Spotify is more of a threat to album sales than TPB. But I'd say it extremely sotto voce, in case someone heard me and took it away.

Sweet, sweet Spotify..."

Don't worry - Spotify's not going anywhere. It has the backing of the Majors and the Indies. Now if only Fab Mac could persuade them to get the Beatles back catalogue (and the Floyd's) onto the system, everything in the garden would be rosy (Macca's solo albums and The Fireman are already there).

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Anonymous Coward

lol @ Macca

Paul McCartney said "If you get on a bus you've got to pay. And I think it's fair you should pay your ticket."

Yes Paul, and as you're aware, if you want to get paid you have to do work.

Oh wait, you're not aware, you're a lazy bum who thinks he should keep getting paid for a few years work he did 60 years ago, I see now why Paul, you're such an idiot.

Why the fuck does he think anyone would want to work a 40hr week to pay to listen to his music when he can't be arsed to even do any work to provide it?

Musicians used to actually have to perform if they wanted to get paid. I see little reason why this should change. The rest of us also have to work if we want to get paid too. Effectively what's changed is the ability to record that performance and the music industry decided we should all pay for copies even though no work is done to create or provide them. Well, sorry music industry, but now we're deciding the opposite, that we don't have to pay for copies. Sucks when people make decisions for you without compromise or debate doesn't it?

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Joke

I think I'm gonna be sad, I think its today....

Ahh, Macca...

He's got a ticket to ride, and he don't care....

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Silver badge
Pirate

Three words...

Mull of Kintyre.

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Pirate

“judicial murder”.

FWIW, "Judicial murder" is the generally accepted term for miscarriage of justice in several scandinavian countries. It does not imply actual loss of life.

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fair do's

It will be fair for the entertainment industry to limit how consumers copy and distribute their purchases when the consumers can place restrictions on how their money can be spent by the entertainment industry.

I can't make a copy of my bluray disk because i am only paying for the ability to watch the content? Okay, but when the disk gets scratched, I can retrieve my money back to my bank account.

I can't distribute copies of a song because people would be getting something for nothing? Okay, but all the purchase price goes to the artist, none up the noses of the layers of management.

Your online music store has DRM? Fine, but when i terminate my account and i can no longer play the music held on my hardware I get a full refund of all my purchases.

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Coat

Ha Ha

Well done the MAFIAA,

"As a result, the case will be referred to the Swedish Supreme Court, which could take several years to reach a final verdict."

In the mean time any cases regarding TPB will be sub-justice, just remember that EIRCOM, when you try to cut off any customer who has paid for broadband and the MAFFIA wants cut off from the interweb.

Regarding Macca’s comment about the bus, the only comparison I can think of is that buying music (and before any MAFIAtards want to argue that, it’s a sale with restrictions) is like buying a lifelong bus ticket, but the bus company wants you to pay again on every different bus you get on (change of hardware player), every time there a change of driver

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070507/131704.shtml

or even if you want to buy your own bus and want to use it.

(http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/tm_objectid=16513231&method=full&siteid=50003&headline=-you-need-a-licence-to-strum-stairway-to-heaven--name_page.html

Whooosssshhhhh, what was that? Was it a bird? Was it an aeroplane? Was it the fat cat MAFIAA trying to suck every penny (or cent) out of the general public, No; it’s the rest of the world passing the MAFIAA by

The MAFIAA should get their coats and leave

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Jobs Halo

Macca ensured "piracy" was to only option to listen to the Beatles on an ipod until recently

It was about a year ago both Apple and Apple Corp agreed to the deal to put the beatles on ITunes.

Until then it was not legal (in the UK) to listen to the Beatles on an ipod, as we do not have the right to fair use or transfer between media types.

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Anonymous Coward

..on another note

(just to side track)

why choose a name like PB when they are tryin to say they aint there to infrange copyright etc?

im off to setup walmart-bay.com, but honestly i aint gunna sell knock off tv's or anything, honest

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Pirate

Bus

""If you get on a bus you've got to pay. And I think it's fair you should pay your ticket.""

If you are as old as he is, you don't have to pay a penny.

And no, I don't think that is fair. Especially when that then means that I cannot get on the bus at all, when I want to go to work, because it is already full of OAPs that are only going window-shopping.

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Boffin

@ By Anonymous Coward Posted Tuesday 21st April 2009 08:08 GMT

How would it be in anyway communist ? The artists would be free to do whatever they wished and the state would only trump up the costs and have no control over how things are run.

How would a system that allows *ALL* professional musicians access to production studios, producers and equipment stifle creativity ?

And finally as for Lily Allen I agree I don;t know the numbers, as they are not available, same way I don't know about Vista source code but I know that a lot of it must be fairly rubbish from the end product! As others have said I've actually probably skewed the costs the other way, though I now think that the record companies take a lot more than £1,500,000 for their cut probably at least treble that in the first two years ? How knows it's all hidden knowledge!

Tell me why is it communist to cut out record companies and let artists get on with what they do best, there is still plenty of competition to be had in the system I've put forward and the entire thing would be independent of government control, It's just be financed and maintained by taxation.

Perhaps your right though I see art and culture as a fundamental and crucial part of life for everyone... it enriches our existence, I do not believe it should be monetized or commercialized to the point where people are made to pay through the nose.

Artists deserve to be paid, but only as fairly as everyone else who puts something into society.

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Justice for All

I just love the way you all bang on about evil music companies. Yeah right, you all break copyright laws because you are concerned about the welfare of the artists who get sold down the river by industry fat cats.

Maybe because I care about chicken welfare I should just start stealing chickens from Tesco, or because RBS's chairman got too much pension I should go do an armed robbery on one of their branches...

Its all just a bandwagon for freetards to jump on. Get a spine, just say you steal it because you can and its easy and doesn't cost you anything.

If the music industry want to recoup their losses from TPB, I'd pay for streamed video of the smug gits from TPB breaking rocks for a year...

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Shut It Macca

Didn't the Beatles get a huge promotional leg-up from the 60's pirate radio stations that used to anchor off the British coast (Radio Caroline etc.)?

Anyway, I'd be suprised if Sir Macca had any understanding of what's actually going on and probably just follows what the misinformed press says. His comment seems as generic as it gets. Clueless old fart!

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Go

@ Justice for all

Perhaps the reason why people don't string up bankers and march on Tesco's is because they'd be imprisoned with impunity, I for one would think its entirely fair to protest about chickens or bankers, All thats happening here is that the protest can go a step beyond because they can't be policed. It's not as if the freetards have no right to steal the music, it's that it is unlawful but it can't be enforced... In truth in an unequal society there will always be feeling that people have a right to steal from the rich.

If you want a fair and just world it needs to be equal.

End of story.

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