back to article Pirate Bay fans: Lay off our neo-Nazi Sugar Daddy

On Friday we learnt the verdict on the Pirate Bay trial in Stockholm. Whilst the Pirate four were hit with jail time and fines, the legal fisticuffs are nowhere near over, with the newly convicted quartet vowing to appeal the decision all the way to the European Court. One of the four defendants, Carl Lundstrom, has more than an …

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godwins law

nuff said

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Stop

You're missing the point.

He's right wing in political bias? Clearly guilty then!

He's [Black/White]? Clearly guilty then!

He's [Atheist/Fundamentalist]? Clearly guilty then!

He's [Gay/into BDSM]? Clearly guilty then!

Opinion SHOULD NOT weight in a court of law, and it should hold even less weight in reporting news. Give us facts and news, not opinion and personal bias.

I am not a right-wing sympathiser; far from it, but I will defend the rights of each and everyone to choose what they believe.

"I may not agree with your point of view, but I will fight to defend your right to hold it."

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Top quality

You must be doing something right judging from the foaming collection of retards you stirred up.

Keep up the good work.

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Oh dear Andrew

Forgot to untick the comments box?!

We don't mind you mentioning Neo-Nazis, perhaps you might want to include some sort of releveancy though, like your last commenter (in the article) did.

I'm sure plenty of people work/ed with KKK members and didn't know, does that make them guilty by association?

Do you know exactly what sort of people pay your wages?

When I read the initial article it did just stink of you bringing in a fact that would clearly displease people just to bolster your obvious anti-freetardism.

To me, it might be case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", but I doubt TPB are trying to overthrow all capitalism and I'm not aware of any racist or what-have-you evident in TPB (but then I'm not a user bar reading the occasional linked news/blog article), so joining forces with the Aryan Brotherhood (or whatever) doesn't seem to makes sense.

Unless you're intent on outing as many other average-profile, software-funding bigots as you can find? Then, please continue, knowledge is power after all.

Without an indication of some hidden agenda.. it's just using our liberalism (in the sense that we likely don't like people who don't like other people based on things they can't change) to make us not like someone that you don't like.

I hope that clears that up :)

Less smear, more news, I say.

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Wow . . .

I love the "Gates and Balmer who have intentionally caused incalculable misery" guy. Not a fraction of the real misery most neo-Nazis would cause. I'm sure, also, that Carl "Unterfuhrer" Lundstorm gives the kind of money to charity that the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has. He sounds like quite the humanitarian, after all. Oh, wait, making sure people can download material and fight DRM is actually much more important than addressing disease, poverty in places around the world. At least it is if you don't have to worry about disease and poverty.

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Pirate

Some TPB users vote labour.

I would say most of the people that use TPB are not trying to bring down any company, simply are calling for an utilising the Libertarian, Freedom of Information angle which is totally opposite to the facist/socialist way.... but these lefties in the BNP and their foreign counterparts also have few morals so will give freedom a chance if it means one up on their enemy.

Libertarians also don't care what people do in their other time so have no problems in using the site.

So yes, it's interesting to note what he does but have to be careful of not coming across as saying "Copyright theft funds Nazis" in the way that we get adverts on telly and our rental DVDs bullying us all the time.

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Logic lessons from Drew

So Lundstrom is a neo-nazi. Neo-nazism sucks. He's associated with the Pirate Bay, so the Pirate Party must be neo-nazi and also suck.

Brilliant reasoning, Drew. You have made a perfect case of why the Pirate Bay deserved the veredict. Damn, the MAFIAA should have hired you as their lawyer.

Down with the neo-nazi Pirate Bay! ... Not.

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Not taking sides,

but I imagine Colin M would collapse in a pile of his own urine if that 'electricity' stuff ever stopped arriving wherever he needed it. Bit short on imagination to be unable to at least envisage a world that didn't revolve around money. Indeed, not so long ago, it used to. Perhaps, this is not what he meant by free and indeed it would seem that our liberties are dwindling by the day.

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A little background

Sweden had decades of it's own brand of Social Democracy, that made Sweden a near Utopia, but young people being naturally rebellious made many inclined to adopt a Nazi posture, almost wilfully ignorant as to what that particular fashion meant.

The murders of Olof Palme and Anna Lindh, as well as mass immigration of Muslims, seemed to end the Swedish dream and Moderaterna (The Conservatives) took power, dismantling much of Palme's legacy whilst sucking up to Big Business.

Hopefully now, with IPRED and TPB verdict, more Swedish youth will recognise their true enemies.

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IT Angle

Does this mean I have to stop drinking Fanta Lemon

Does this mean I have to stop drinking Fanta Lemon because its a Nazi drink.

What about my VW car which used jewish slave labour

Or Siemens which also benefited from free labour during the second world war.

Or just about every other successful Greman company?

Just a thought

Where is the IT Angle here...... Of course Siemens profeteering from Jewish Slave labour

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@AC (Some TPB users vote labour)

"I would say most of the people that use TPB are not trying to bring down any company, simply are calling for an utilising the Libertarian, Freedom of Information angle which is totally opposite to the facist/socialist way...."

And there was me thinking they just used TPB to get free films.

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Flame

Poor Voltaire

Swann, what Voltaire said was more like:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Lesser know is his next sentence:

"But if you're going to *pay* for 100 people to infiltrate this great country's parliament, forcing your agenda through using money rather than words, I shall smear you in the media."

And fair play to him.

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Pirate

Irrelevant to the case

Honestly, the fact that anyone is a Neo-Nazi has no bearing on this case. I did feel slightly sick reading that, especially after having read some of the things neo-Nazis in Germany have been up to lately.

That doesn't mean that if Lundstrom committed some act of terrorism that he should get off scott-free. But he should be punished in court on those terms, not have his co-workers who are along for the ride punished for his youthful (or not so youthful) indiscretions.

I feel that groups such as neo-Nazis and the BNP are abhorrent; however, until they do something breaking a law, they should still have freedom.

I support TPB because if I didn't I would have to pay a large sum for popular music that has more than made back the initial investment, plus a lot. I really think an album by The Beatles should really be cheaper than the new thing to come out on the charts, just because The Beatles have made umpteen billions of pounds (for the record companies, at least, merely millions for themselves).

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oh shit yeah...

now let's see the whole thing in playmobile

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Freudian slit?

Bakunin, at least, never had bukkake on his mind.

(Welcome back, FoTW).

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Dead Vulture

I love me, who do you love?

"So Nazi are cool? noted - I replied. I wondered if there was a synergy here. Leather - Nazis - good for business, no?"

Graham hit the nail on the head and you tried a non too elegant swerve by your leather / Nazi association, and the suggestion of his remarks somehow suggested that Nazis were cool.

Your articles do contain stand up facts, but too often degenerate into opinion, rather than genuine commentary.

Jake

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Stop

You can't ignore who you are doing business with.

Lundstrom is a businessman. He presumably got into business with the Pirates because he saw a way to make money. He uses the money he makes from his businesses to fund neo-nazi activities. So regardless of your own political views, if you used TPB, you gave money to Lundstrom who used it for his own extremist right-wing ends. If you did that unaware of the association with Lundstrom, then thank the Reg for warning you; if you did it knowingly, then you are complicit.

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Pirate

So wait...

Is he REALLY a neo-nazi, or just a bit farther to the right than you? Because over here, liberals like to call anyone who believes in things like self-sufficiency, or not allowing every terrorist that wants to immigrate to do so a nazi. I've been called a "hitler youth" before myself (fairly absurd, in my gun safe I've got both the Mauser my granddad brought home after kicking nazi ass in WW2, and a Mosin-Nagant that was built early enough to probably have sniped a ton of the bastards at Stalingrad). If he actually legitimately is a swastika-carrying nazi, while absurd, and cause for ridicule, he still does have his free speech, just like we have the freedom to make fun of him.

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Distinctions

I think your original article performed a useful service. While I think it's entirely reasonable to want to cut down on foreign immigration to Europe, particularly during difficult economic times, and particularly when security questions are raised by some of the sources of immigration, that is quite different from supporting any kind of discrimination against European citizens of whatever origin. If those behind Pirate Bay see nothing wrong with having a collaborator who has crossed that line (if indeed he has) that's an issue.

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Alert

Re: Wow . . .

Microsoft has done some good, but it has also caused misery. Just ask any web developer who has to code a website for the differences between IE 6, 7, and 8. That time and energy could be put to better use.

One reason Gates is giving away so much money to fight disease, particularly in Africa, is simply to make more money. When disease is minimized, the economy can get better. When that happens, people have money to spend on things they didn't want or need before, such as a shiny new computer running Windows.

Between Gates and Lundstorm, I would say that the latter is the greater humanitarian, because his involvement in TPB helped people communicate with less censorship, something which is on the rise online, and which significantly impedes the pace of human evolution. I note that this group of "people" likely involves all races, not just Whites, which makes Lundstrom's involvement here blind to color, and thus even more remarkable.

Finally, I'd like to point out something which many computer-savvy readers here should know. Digital copyright is a sham. A computer file is just a number, which can be interpreted in more than one way. You cannot copyright a number, at least not in the United States.

My British cat, Mr. Fluffer Wickbidget, III, is playing with his new toy: a bag of bits. Let's see how long before he chews his way through, and I yell: "There be bits on the floor, matey! Arrr."

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@Andrew Orlowski

Thank you for posting some of my comments to you, although I note that you didn't quote the bit where I pointed out that your "So Nazi [sic] are cool?" comment was a Straw Man.

I also added a PS saying "would you object if Max Mosley was a customer of mine...?" but you never replied to that...

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Oh dear

Come on Andrew, surely even you can see that money spent funding TPB is money NOT spent on right-wing thuggery? TPB is actually saving us from the Nazis bit by bit (cough).

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@AC 13:06

Thank you for correcting the Voltaire quotation; I knew I'd got it slightly wrong, but the point still stands.

I expect reactionary, poltically aligned commentary from the tabloids, but I expect better of El Reg!

Thank you for the clarification.

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couldn't

Couldn't give a toss about his politics, he's welcome to his views just like you, ecofags, anti-nuclear tards, nulabridogs and all the rest of the people in the world with their various boring self serving notions of right, wrong and inbetween. As far as I'm concerned you can hate whites, blacks, chinese, christians, athiests, anglicans, catholics, muslims, sunnis, jews, hindus, Americans, British, French, welsh, Scotish, you can hate the left, the right, the media, God, gods, profits, captalism, fascism, and hell just about anything else in the world.

We buy shit from the yanks all the time and their administration funds torture, and some may say terrorism, hell it was sponcering the IRA. We get out gas from Russia and our oil from the Saudis.

As a nation we're happy to give away freedoms for make believe security.

Getting a raging hard on over a neo-nazi supporting copyright infringment is a bit misplaced.

What you support shutting him up becouse you don't agree with him? That's pretty fascist if you ask me.

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Dead Vulture

I love me long time

"Thank you for posting some of my comments to you, although I note that you didn't quote the bit where I pointed out that your "So Nazi [sic] are cool?" comment was a Straw Man.

I also added a PS saying "would you object if Max Mosley was a customer of mine...?" but you never replied to that..."

Well my search function must be wonky in Firefox. I searched for Max and Mosley and neither struck gold in this piece, or the one on the 26th Feb. I used the mark one eyeball and that must be on the blink too (no pun intended).

What you did do is try to discredit the point he made by stating Graham worked for a leather goods company. What a merry and pertinent observation / comment.

The Nazi and cool reference was put in the before his comment ended, so if it wasn't targeted at him, or his point, this was a strange place to put it, completely without contextual reference

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Pirate

Andrew some people don't get it.

Just for what it may be worth Andrew is an editor and not primarily a Reg hack everything you see with his name on it is "commentary" and therefore probably not requiring yet more commentary. Some might question his depth of commitment to copyright law as he produces little requiring such protection but thats a value judgment.

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Anonymous Coward

Will justice be served?

Will these criminals go to prison and pay the fines they owe or skate like in the past?

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Some TPB users vote labour.

@AC:

"I would say most of the people that use TPB are not trying to bring down any company, simply are calling for an utilising the Libertarian, Freedom of Information angle which is totally opposite to the facist/socialist way...."

My pal Andrew would die if you drop a couple of crushed peanuts in his dinner. This is independent of whether you intend him to or not. If you add the peanut simply from the Freedom of Information angle, he will still die.

If I offered you free films for hiding peanuts in his food, I would achieve my goal (of killing him) and you would help me (kill him).

If this Lundstrom chap funded the TPB in order to attack corporate interests, it doesn't matter if the users agree with his principles or not -- the attack still takes place.

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Stop

LEAVE THE NAZIS ALLLLOOOOOOOONE!!!!

AAARGGHAHHAhAHAAAAhhAA!!!

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Are you sure the Neo-Nazi link is irrelevant?

A lot of people are saying "Oh, leave the Pirate Bay alone, who cares if one of the people running and profiting from it is a nazi! Its free speech!"

But the Neo-Nazi link is relevant and is worth bringing up because its a political matter (though not necessarily directly relevant to the trial itself.) The Pirate Bay is tied in with the Pirate Party, a Swedish political party with aspirations to expand beyond Sweden.

So whether or not you visit and implicitly support TPB is your business. Know that they are linked to Neo-Nazi's. Know too that there is an organized political component to TPB.

Thanks to Andrew and the Reg.

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Hmmm

I think a lot of you are missing the point. Andrew isn't smearing TPB or Lundstrom, he's having a pop at freetards. I don't think it's smear to simply point out that the guy is a Neo Nazi when freetards (especially the noisy opinionated banner-waving element) - a group I'd consider leftist to say the very least - don't seem to want to know who's paying as long as they continue to get their free shit.

It's not a question of who you're giving your money to (as in corporate boycotts) but who you're taking it from, no questions asked.

Meanwhile casual users have been left in a situation where they have a choice between either paying for a crocked copy of their digital media because music/video/games/book publishers have totally failed to deal with the new technology, or turning to the likes of TPB where they can get the same stuff (plus some shitty malware "bonus tracks" if they're unlucky) in the space of a few clicks.

Both sides of the argument suck fat ones. All AO has consistently done is to point that fact out in his own inimitable, acerbic, shit-stirring style. Keep it up I say.

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Boffin

Request

I would like to see a frequency distribution curve of ratings for AO articles. I suspect it may look like a pair of well-separated breasts. On this occasion, btw, I'm over on the right (statistically, not politically).

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MnM
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Cheers Andrew

Seemed to me that the Pirate Bay case was cut and dried good vs evil, because the studios are evil, and who could be more loveable than someone fighting evil. Didn't think about it much, better things to do, and I'm sure I wasn't alone in this. So thanks for letting me know that there's more to it, should've said so at the time.

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Justified...?

That this guy is a neo-nazi doesn't actually have any bearing on the case or the rights or wrongs of any particular action. But a great deal of capital has been made out of the pirate bay founders' innocent David vs. evil corporation Goliaths. If this presents us with a slightly more detailed picture of the people involved (one is a very rich fascist), then it might simply be addressing the balance, eh?

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Alert

Shooting the messenger Orlowski. Again.

Is that all you do?

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@ Graham Marsden

"I note that you didn't quote the bit where I pointed out that your "So Nazi [sic] are cool?" comment was a Straw Man."

I read through what he quoted three times trying to figure out how he got from what you wrote to "Nazis are cool". It's traditional to exaggerate your opponent's position rather than just make it up completely.

I think he's getting as deluded as the freetards he likes to rant about.

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Donnie Credici is right

Credici is right when he says "What i see [sic] a guy (Lundstorm) saw a business opportunity and did not try to push a nazi agenda. his personal background is of no importance whatsoever."

It would be relevant if Lundstorm was getting involved in like some immigration-related group, or even something involving human rights in general. He's not. The Pirate Bay is completely orthogonal politically to any kind of anti-immigration views he may have.

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"an old pusher once told me..."

"... watch whose money you pick up"

--William S Burroughs.

Still as sound advice today as it ever was.

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jai
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adblocker

so if we visit TPB but will all the adblocker plug-ins enable and images switched off and so on, so we are sure to avoid being shown any advertising, are we safe to assume we're not support those nazi scum?

it's far easier just to go to usenet i think

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IBM?

Better pack that PC tech away as I believe IBM was "in bed" with Herr Hitler and his rather unpleasant bunch at one point.

Siemens, VW, quite a few other well known German companies got their big break with the Charlie Chaplin lookalike.

Couldn't give a toss personally. but when people pull out the yardstick let's ensure we measure everything the same way eh?

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Paris Hilton

Ouch! Raw nerve alert!

Well done Reg!

It looks as if a raw nerve has been touched there and one that seems to ooze priors of some description?

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Linux

Financial Loss of Hollywood Jews via Pirate Bay

The neo-Nazis believe that Hollywood is controlled by the Jews. The Pirate Bay is a leader in causing untold billions in losses every year for the music and film industries. Beyond the anti-Semitic rhetoric, beyond the genocidal fantasies they might harbor, wouldn't hitting a Jew in the wallet be a way for a vindictive neo-Nazi sympathizer like Carl Lundstrom to fulfill his lust for Jew hatred? Spending pennies to create great financial loss for those Jews in Hollywood would be a supreme pleasure to an anti-Semite.

I've read Lundstrom had three Italians from Latin America attacked because they weren't white enough. The fact that Lundstrom and The Pirate Bay do have a political component to them as another user here pointed out makes their associations totally relevant.

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Ignorant fool...

"Freetards may look like a bunch of hippies from the outside but the root of their ideology looks is closer to Bukaninst anarchy - destroy everything in its current form and then do - um - something else (TBA)."

1. You mean Bakunin, not Bukanin.

2. He wrote extensively about what that 'something else' might be, though if you can't even spell his name right I'm probably on solid ground guessing you haven't actually read anything he wrote (or even the wikipedia article). He also didn't call for the destruction of 'everything', he called specifically for the abolition of inequality through the overthrow of the capitalist class.

3. This view has nothing to do with 'freetards', who are aiming to attack a very specific form of outdated property relation - ie. intellectual property. They're not, for example, calling for a violent insurrectionary movement to physically take control of the means of production.

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