North Korea, as expected, launched a large multi-stage rocket at the weekend. Parts of the stack fell on either side of Japan. Pyongyang claims that a satellite was put into orbit: Japanese and US air-defence commanders have stated this is untrue. According to the US Northern Command, the rocket was a "Taepodong-2" long-range …
Urr, supposedly this had the oomph to reach Alaska. Yes, Alaska, the beating heart of America.
I rest my case.
I say !
Completely unacceptable eh ! Cor blimey ! That'll scare them off good !
one rule for them....
and another completely differnt one for us (by us I mean the Grand Old United Staes of Great Britain)
I might have misunderstood, but, We (see above) are alowed to own and build and stockpile weapons of all sorts, and develop and manufacture the needs to put whatever we want, where ever we want, at the push of a couple of buttons. However, if those Godless Commies wanna do the same, even in the name of 'launching satellites' their gonna get pointed and scorned at. Just dont seem right.
But i suppose , whats the point in being able to 'retaliate' in a nuclear war?
How dare you disparage Alaska! It's quite close to Russia you know.
Clear and Present Dangers Hiding in Full Sight?
""North Korea has not been able to demonstrate a reliable system capable of being an ICBM or a space launch vehicle," Joseph Bermudez of Jane's Information Group told AFP.
It has been previously suggested that Pyongyang is seeking to prove such a capability: either as a counter to be bargained away in negotiations with the West and Japan, or alternatively for sale to Iran."
Suggestions which are always touted by self serving rivals in the foreign communications and satellite business and therefore are no more than idle belligerent paronoid speculation when they always pay no attention to what they have been told, which is probably much more an accurate reflection on their own way of doing business in sensitive foreign intelligence matters........with Ye Olde Spin a Yarn and Hide the Truth to Cause an International/Financial/Climate/Strategic Infrastructure Crisis Model.
If you want something dodgy to worry about, here is something much closer to home ....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbjgDERSuiI ..... which you dance around like fairies and studiously ignore .....just like a Toxic Asset Dump of Worthless Debts/Failed Entreprises/Lost Causes.
The Phantom Menace....
Who's REALLY telling the truth?
The merkin's with their "no satellite means no threat and the world will not panic, we've got enough on with Afganistan and Iraq" or the Norko's with the "we shall play revolutionary music from space......See!!!"
The trouble with transliterating from the Korean to Latin alphabet is made all too obvious here. I'm sure that the correct spelling of "Taepodong-2" should be more like "Type'o'dung-2".
More worrying than if it worked as expected...
"The remaining stages along with the payload itself landed in the Pacific Ocean"
I wonder if the test wasnt to put a satellite into orbit but to put a payload in the right place, eg, a target zone. So, while the west is saying theres no threat because the North Koreans cant get their act together, the North Koreans are joining the ICBM club right under their noses!
It's disappointing to see Obama adopting the same old stance of telling other countries that they are not allowed to develop the same technology the americans and their friends have had for years and that the americans themselves have previously used to kill tens of thousands of civilians.
Hipocracy in the extreme.
Threat goes beyond the West Coast of the USA
"The Taepodong-2 design is assessed as potentially being able to deliver a payload as far as the western coast of the USA, or alternatively to put one into low orbit."
If this vehicle can put a payload into orbit, it can deliver that same payload to any point on the Earth.
How much of the US oil and gas reserves would be made radioactive ?
This is quite possibly the only post from you that I have EVER been able to understand.
Does this mean I am having a stroke or something worse?
Doctor there's something wrong with my head, I can understand amanfromMars posts!
@one rule for them & @hypocracy
Maybe irradiating the oil would be a good thing? You could have a nuclear-petrol hybrid.
I bet you'd get about 500mpg (before the engine melted)
Who's the terrorist ?
What gives Brown, Obama or anyone else the right to tell North Korea what they can and cannot do, particularly as it seems to amount to NK never being allowed to do anything because it will always be suspected or alleged to be something else, a potential threat to those countries who already have the technology they refuse to let others have ?
What do they call people who threaten others that if they don't do what is demanded they will face the consequences, suffer for it ?
It's ironic that the UK and US should be telling NK ( or Iran for that matter ) what's what when engaged in two wars - seen as illegal by many - with an ever expanding arena of violence. While the slaughter continues, civilian bodies pile up, missiles are thrown by the US from occupied land into foreign territories, and those who won't comply with our demands are threatened with death and destruction, they have have the audacity to claim we're the Good Guys.
@alain and co.
It's only the same sort of hypocracy as the sort an adult has for a child with regards to knives/guns/booze. The USA, UK and others are mature, stable countries with checks and balances in the running of the country and the military. NK is a dictatorship run by a man who makes Mugabe look sane, who is on poor health, with a dangerous power vacuum when he pegs it. A good example is, on one hand he wants nukes, missiles and a huge army, while on the other hand, the country begs for handouts because it's people are starving.
And you think it's fine for these loonies to have these 'toys'? Wait there while I go give the nearest ten year old a shotgun and a kilo of crack....
Oh My God.......
I didn't realise it was a post from amanfromMars until I saw Paul Young's post
Brown trousers time perhaps...
...for Arec Barrwin!
Listen, I applaud your ideology, but give me the solution...
Either everyone can have thermonuclear devices and Intercontinental delivery systems - I think we can all agree that's not a good idea! or nobody can (which in reality means we unilaterally disarm, and wake up one morning to find other, less well-intentioned nations threatening us with said weapons, with no way to counter). You can maybe open the argument about how well-intentioned any nation is when protecting its own national interests, but the western powers (and to a certain extent China and Russia) have less of a fervant agenda of change as the last of the real commies and an Islamic Republic that I can mention!
That's why the pragmatists tend to support the nuclear deterrant no matter how much we would like to live in a world where they do not exist.
Just my 2p worth...
You owe me a new keyboard ! Type 'o dung. ... classic
I for one
Welcome our new North Korean overlords
Raising the temperature of geo-politics across the far east.
Heh heh... norks!
Nothing to worry about
That took way more than 45 minutes.
Who's telling the truth
I can't decide whether I should believe the US, or the NorK publicity machine.
Which of them has the worst history of being caught out with blatant lies ?
A minor point - hippocracy is rule by horses. You probably wanted hypocrisy - unless you wanted to imply that we are led by asses.
Ermm... coat please?
Rule By Horses is a really good name for an American indie band. Influences: My Morning Jacket, Elliott Smith, Postal Service.
Ugh. History repeats itself.
We did the EXACT same thing in '58 with an Atlas missile with a tape recorder aboard (see Project SCORE) except ours worked, and yes, the purpose was to scare/impress the Russians.
While I have no love for North Korea, I think the US gov't should STFU and mind our own damn business. North Korea followed all the proper international protocols for announcing a launch.
I've talked to some Japanese friends and they seem to have the same "the sky is falling!" attitude America had when Russia orbited Sputnik. The sensationalism in the Japanese press is incredible.
I fail to see the hypocrisy. Kim is a psychopath and you should feel nervous, not appauled. The thought of his having the capability of striking any developed country with nuclear missiles is quite scary to me. You all claiming "hypocirsy" need to look at the character and history of their leader and the country before making such a ridiculous assertion. After writing this, I remembered, you're liberal, mush-for-brain, close-minded fools, and telling you that you need to reconsider is like beating my head against the wall in hopes for a raise at work... it's insanity.
I'd move if my crazy next door neighbor had 4 tons of explosives in his garrage... which is very much how Japan must feel.
@ Paul Young re @ amanfromMars
I agree! ROTFWL!
You may think it funny Chris, but look at a map of Siberia and the Aluetian Islands ( Part of Alaska), you may find that the two are closer than you would want to think.
@Anonymous Coward Posted Monday 6th April 2009 11:15 GMT
sorry, USA a mature country? Out of the two "children" I feel no safer giving a big gun to the Americans rather that NK. Who's "dictating" nearly everything in the world at present?
Let me be the first to welcome our equine overlords.
They can't possibly do any worse.....surely?
Surely if this thing is transmitting from space then plenty of independent (from the US that is) sources would be able to pick it up and verify it's location? So methinks no, it DIDN'T make it into orbit - though I'm sceptical it was ever intended to...
@ Anonymous Coward @ Michael Smith
'Urr, supposedly this had the oomph to reach Alaska. Yes, Alaska, the beating heart of America.'
Sarah Palin country - the missile suddenly seems quite appealing right now doesn't it?
'If this vehicle can put a payload into orbit, it can deliver that same payload to any point on the Earth.'
Not necessarily, to return the payload to Earth you need to include the mass of the retros and the heat shield. Throw those in and you may not have enough useful mass for a warhead.
And on a related note. Thanks to Pakistan, our dear ally in the war on terror, North Korea MAY have the design for a nuclear missile warhead. Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan, the brains behind the Pakistani nuclear programme is known to have met up with North Korean scientists and exchanged information. Pakistan certainly has nuclear tipped missiles as they got their design from the Chinese.
It can't help NK rocket development if they have to engage a new band of scientists every time, to replace those whose failure was suitably rewarded...
@ AC & Brandon
"It's only the same sort of hypocracy as the sort an adult has for a child with regards to knives/guns/booze. The USA, UK and others are mature, stable countries with checks and balances in the running of the country and the military"
IIRC, and I am not a world expert by any means, the US and UK are involved in at least one war that is illegal and (at least in the case of the UK) the majority of the people opposed. Afghanistan is a bit more fuzzy, but is also arguably illegal.
North Korea has not currently invaded any distant oil rich countries in order to remove WMD that do not exist and to prevent a regime that hated Al Qaeda from supporting Al Qaeda.
But, no matter how Kim Il Whattsit is (and he is a fruitloop) it is still hypocrisy to prevent another country fro doing something you do your self.
"I'd move if my crazy next door neighbor had 4 tons of explosives in his garrage"
So would I, but the analogy here should be that you would complain to the police about your neighbour having 4 tons of explosives in his garage whilst vigorously defending your right to retain the 4 tons (or more like 4 million tons in this analogy) of explosives you have in your own garage.
Am I the only one?
What would the itty-bitty, teeny-tiny, hermetically sealed NorK do with a coms-sat, even if they did manage to get it into orbit? I've heard some whoppers in my time (hi, George!), but this is about the most blatent lie I've ever heard from any government.
the fools who keep trying to compare the USA and NK as both being equal are silly. If NK developed thier ICBMs and nukes in the 60's they would be more equal. They didn't. We've reached an equilibrium and stability since then. When something breaks that (9-11 guerrilla warfare), we have wars. We're lucky 9-11 was all that it was. If Pakistan gets crazy, or NK gets reliable nukes we'll probably have a nuclear WWIII. Those of you arguing that we should be fair, and have more nuclear armed countries are exceedingly foolish. All the smart people are working at disarmament (US and Russia etc.)
Imagine a room full of rival gang bangers with drawn guns. Some have single shot guns, some have fully automatics. Finally the most dangerous rivals with the biggest guns, are holstering their weapons, when NK is trying to raise it's measly revolver. So no... it's not fair they're gonna screw up a hard worked for stability.
RE:By Lee 14:08 GMT
North Korea has not currently invaded any distant oil rich countries in order to remove WMD that do not exist and to prevent a regime that hated Al Qaeda from supporting Al Qaeda.
Apart from Kim jong loony's dad tried to re-unite the 2 Koreas by driving several tank armies over the southern bit..... then running away when the yanks turned up... and then the war turned into China vs USA although the north koreans claim they won it.
Also have a delightful read of the DRPK's news website sometime....... particually the bits where they refer to the US and Japan... then compare that to some of the nazi crap published in the 1930's
Every north korean is taught from birth that the ills and misfortunes of their country are down to the US and Japan, while the dear leader and his deceased dad(+ mother+ grandparents) are praised to the heavens as being the greates world leaders ever.
However I suspect it was a dummy 3rd stage fitted so they could test how the first 2 stages would fire... and the US+ media kindly supplied all the landing points for them......
Rule by horses you say? Humm, oh well let me just say: I for one welcome our new Equine overlords and bid them mind which fields they graze in. We've made rather a mess of several of them while using some nasty chemicals.
Knock-Knock South, West Nervously Smokes Aside
There are HAARP site @ Alaska and some Pacific Command and Base as targets for the PRK's rocket, if the military aspect is addressed, but one might find these ones absolutely virtual.
Well, the Starting kit and Escorting service were good, as reported. Reliable lifting, comsat and surveillance is what the investors may be sure to think about when plan to deal with Kims, along with food and oil products supply. South and Japan (mainly, population is targeted) really have to find that the ends meet each other enough well, as the North show they also can work the thing out and have some important stuff to share.
Does anybody want to find some heavy flying shit with separated XC-geared warheads testing in Pacific waters? No, because it makes unpleasant sounds which order The Finances pay the average + $10000 p/a to the Navy' contract wages. Also, thousands of healthy people are willing to march on feet to the Moon, Mars or wherever the Party order, does it feed the needs of Space Boffinry?
Type'o dung (-:
Norks at war?
IIRC, the Norks are still at war (the Korean War is only on hold). The truce is in force for now, but can easily be abrogated by either side (the Norks or the UNO). That being the case, the Typodung-2 is a potential casus belli.
The US needs Kim, and Kim needs the US.
Kim Jong Il would not be able to retain the iron grip on his populace without maintaining high levels and ongoing fear of the Evil Imperialist Empire with all the self righteous, nationalistic flag waving patriotism that goes with it.
Most of these stunts are purely intended to provoke a response from the west to which Kim can then point at to show his starving and suffering proletariat how all the ills they endure are due to the US and their allies constant attempts to hold them down.
Ironically, the West needs Kim for precisely the same reasons.
Well I can see why Japan should be concerned
They shot a missile, that failed its 1st test and crashed 40 seconds off the launch pad, right over their country. What would have happened if the booster would have cut off like in the 1st test and it would have hit a populated town. So I can understand their concern about the sky possibly falling.
Another great victory
For the Great Leader (the eternal one who ascended to the heavens, not the midget) and the wisdom of the philosophy of Juche. The enlightened free people of North Korea can celebrate this great day for years to come.
BTW, I was pissed off that they got "angry bloke" to read out the North Korean news announcement. I much prefer "angry babe".
I had to think about that one for a bit.
Well "mature", "stable" or not, one has to ask oneself reasonable questions like "on past and current form, which countries are most likely to launch unprovoked attacks on other countries?" For example a country that loses 3000 people at the hands of 15 Saudi Arabians and in retaliation kills half a million people from an entirely different country altogether is right up there in the trustworthy stakes, innit?
Don't suppose you give a fuck as long as it's "darkies" being incinerated though.
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