UK operation patents DVD lockdown
Charles
So how does it protect... #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 19:59 GMT

...against players and play software able to jump directly to a particular title set? From what I understand, since standard DVD player hardware can use this system, it implies that the "premium" content is not encrypted on the fly beyond the DVD-standard CSS system. Which means it wouldn't be difficult to extract the premium content with tools already available to the adventurous. I have to ask if these people took the ease of DVD piracy into consideration.
Anonymous Coward
I was given a disk with this 'protection' on it #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 19:59 GMT

Or maybe it was something similar. It was a freebie in a shop somewhere anyway.
Imagine my surprise when VLC played it without any hassle, apparently it only protects the content if you play it on a DVD player and not if your player application plays the tracks directly.
Harry the Bastard
hmm #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 19:59 GMT

stolen credit card + stolen mobile (or payg sim) + disk copier = pwned
Steve Evans
Hmmm... #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 19:59 GMT
I hope that in the USA they still get the phone number to link to the card number, otherwise you could use a prepaid credit card to get the unlock codes, and then bin the card and share the codes with all your friends.
Plus, CLI is all well and good, but at the moment calls breaking out from VOIP can have some very strange numbers, and of course be faked to contain any number you like.
Anonymous Coward
Easily bypassed #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 23:03 GMT

I've seen such a system in use and although it secures the content on a dvd player you can easily bypass that secuity on a pc without anything fancy.
Anonymous Coward
But the important thing is #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 23:03 GMT

can Jacqui Smith claim it on her MP's expenses
Charles
@Harry, Steve #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 23:03 GMT

Why bother with the fake numbers and prepaid cards? Existing software can get the premium content out without any need for that (and this is provable because of the DVD Video standard--no additional encryption allowed).
If you wish for a demonstration, just look for the coat with an Eee in one pocket and a USB DVD drive in the other.
Rich
That is very clever #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 23:03 GMT

One of the few patents that actually deserve to be granted.
It might not actually work in the real world, but it's a really elegant solution.
EdwardP
Oh dear. #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 23:03 GMT

This runs on regular hardware? There's a reason this hasn't been done before: It'll be cracked within about five minutes of release.
So they've managed to code some license system that runs within the standard DVD VTS (how, I do not know), this will be very easy to reverse engineer (if it's even possible) so you'll see keygens popping up online quite quickly.
As another commenter also mentioned, there's no way they've been able to encrypt the content, so you can just watch it on a computer anyway.
There's a reason a lot of time and money has been spent on developing hardware DRM, you just can't secure the standard setup in the way the distributors want.
In the end though, most non-techie people will purchase these things legitimately, and it is a great idea, so bring it on.
Anonymous Coward
And the Titanic was unsinkable #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 23:03 GMT

Bye bye, next useless DRM please.
Mike Richards
It's DIVX all over again #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 23:03 GMT
When are they going to realise it won't bloody well work? It'll last just long enough for someone to rip the content:
Either by breaking the encryption (which must be compromised as it's clear what sort of structure the key will have - if it has a phone number and a credit card number in it then we can exclude other characters), or;
By intercepting the content as it streams from the player to the display. HDCP isn't mandatory yet and most pirated content users would be perfectly happy with a slightly degraded copy.
Haku
Anyone remember DIVX? #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 23:03 GMT

Not DivX, DIVX - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX_(Digital_Video_Express)
A pay-per-view DVD system that required special players whereby you paid to 'unlock' the disc for 48 hours.
Why would someone want to resurrect a 10 year old system/idea that failed miserably?
Anonymous Coward
Temporary lockdown only #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 23:08 GMT

This type of lock will only last until someone gets too annoyed with shelling out extra cash to pay for the "premium" content. Then you will see the emergence of work-arounds to bypass the lock. When someone builds a better lock, it just takes a better lockpick to open it. "All this has happened before and will happen again..."
Martin Owens
Or #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 23:08 GMT
You could run the disk in VLC and run which ever section of the disk you wanted?
Or perhaps your box is a MythTV box where it just throws away the rule book on DVD access.
Cute idea though, depends too much on the DVD protection crap though.
Dave
VoIP? #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 23:08 GMT
So I wonder what happens if I call them using VoIP with a spoofed caller ID - what number do they get displayed? Not that I'd bother making the phone call anyway, but it could be a big hole in the system. Credit card numbers are harder to fake, although for the dodgy types that steal such numbers, using one of them and then putting the unlock codes on the net would somewhat defeat the system.
Anonymous Coward
Stolen Cards? #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 23:09 GMT

This may work fine until someone passes around unlock codes created/purchased using stolen credit card numbers.
Dazed and Confused
pre-pa yed credit cards #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 23:09 GMT

"In the US they will use credit card numbers..."
Have any of these guys ever been to the US?
You go in to any grocery store and for $10 you can buy a credit card.
You then use this to pay for the unlock code and put the two values on the web - job done.
Phone numbers are that easy too.
Haven't these people got a single brain cell between them?
Ben Tasker
An the Algorithm? #
Posted Thursday 2nd April 2009 23:09 GMT
If I know my Phone number is 123456 and the unlock code I get is 9, surely if I know enough people we can work out the algorithm?
The bit in the middle is the only bit we don't know, so if X=123456 and Z=9 it shouldn't be too hard to work out Y, especially once you have a few unlock codes. Either that or someone will stick the disk into their PC and find a way to uncover the algorithm that way.
Sounds like the algorithm may well change between DVD's though, so perhaps it will be more effective than I first assumed, but if someone wants to copy it/watch it for free, they will find a way.
Anonymous Coward
0_o They have "caller ID"? #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 09:35 GMT

How does it know who's using the phone?
Paris - because. Just because.
Mark S
Why?? #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 09:35 GMT

I have seen one of these dvd's before, and by selecting the correct track number from the remote, you can jump straight to the content without entering the password?
dont see the point in it personally!!!
Anonymous Coward
Waste of time and money #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 09:35 GMT

All the evils of DVD protection go away if you rip it with one of the many free rippers and burn a copy.
Anonymous Coward
Won't work #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 09:35 GMT

because these companies touting this new 'protection' racket don't seem to realise that the user has access to the physical content, i.e. the disc.
As others have said anyone with slightly more understanding than the average pc user will be able to copy the disc and extract chapters and so forth.
Another copy protection system pwned methinks!
Anonymous Coward
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeey #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 09:35 GMT
It's old DIVX again! Incidentally, how come everyone thinks this is a great system when it's called "iTunes movie rental" but a bad one now this company is doing it?
Ru
@Ben Tasker, Re: "An the Algorithm?" #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 09:35 GMT

Trying to crack a good cryptographic hash function is so far beyond an exercise in futility I wouldn't know where to start pointing out what a hopeless idea this would be.
But as everyone else has pointed out, if the system doesn't need special hardware then it is inherently useless anyway.
Anonymous Coward
Security by obscurity #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 09:35 GMT

I assume this will use the DVD VM command set to process the unlock code and allow access to the content via the menu. The content itself can only be CSS protected and will be easily ripped.
This is just security by obscurity, similar to that used by a certain Freeview based soft pr0n channel. If you known the correct PIDs and your STB / application allows you to enter them manually, then its free to view.
Not that its worth watching anyway, let alone paying for.
Anonymous Coward
Waste of time #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 09:35 GMT
My brother used to get DVDs attached to catalogues for questionable material sent in the mail which had a PIN protection and it was piss easy to bypass it.
Anonymous Coward
Wasnt Circuit City in on DIVX? #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 09:35 GMT

Didnt they recently die a horrible death?
Heres hoping lightning strikes twice!
Michelle Knight
Tooo easily pawned #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 09:35 GMT
One time credit card number = code pawned.
Calling from a phone box = code pawned.
A good example of innovative thinking, but too easily pawned.
dave
Good enough and simple - I approve #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 09:35 GMT
No protection actually works - anyone who can be bothered will get a cracked version from the web.
More secure safedisc type stuff makes copies attractive, because they've not got this rubbish infecting it and are thus easier to use.
This though - it's barely protected, good enough to stop your mum who got it on her copy of womans own, but isn't complicated enough to actually cause any problems.
Who cares if you can get around the system - they're just after the low hanging fruit.
Greg
It went down well in porn? #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 09:35 GMT
Was that because it made the disc cheaper? You know - you buy a cheap disk full of previews, that you have to pay to unlock the full versions of. Except that you bung it in your PC's DVD drive and the lockdown goes all to shit. So you've basically just bought a really cheap DVD.
Duh. Of course it was popular! If you start giving away discs with full versions of shit under "lockdown," everyone's gonna get them!
Vladimir Plouzhnikov
@Charles #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 09:58 GMT
I completely agree. If there is no new hardware/firmware involved any lock-down must be based on virtual machine coding and PUOPs. There are plenty of free and paid-for software tools available which will extract video and audio streams from VOBs and strip PUOPs (which cannot be preserved if you demux the streams).
Anonymous Coward
Pure BS #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 10:42 GMT
There is no way to lockdown a DVD beyond the current (now utterly useless) technology already employed... which has long been cracked wide open.
Cortland Richmond
Eschew content #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 10:42 GMT
I've no problem with DVD lockdowns: I refuse to watch 'em!
Ponder Stebbins
To answer two of your questions.. #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 11:56 GMT

"The real question is if punters actually want DVDs with additional, premium, content on them."
No, never, never, not ever.
"Technically the solution is one of the more elegant attempts to improve the DVD business."
Bollocks, its an attempt to wring more money out of Joe Public
And a Freudian slip....
"purveyors of porn titles where the access to premium content has apparently gone down well"
Paris, she goes down well
Paul Gooderham
Lets applaud real commitment & innovation #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 12:02 GMT

Being in the DVD replication business I can vouch that this technology actually works and does indeed generate additional revenues – several of my customers use this already. It is true that that there are other locking pin mechanisms out their although it seems to us that DVDPay is the best currently available. Frankly the time and sheer technical effort it would take to get around the DVDPay system doesn’t warrant it as I’m sure you could download the content from a bit torrent site and the fact that this has been proven within the piracy prone niche DVD arena speaks volumes. I know that as this is scaled out across more mainstream DVD applications it will bring real benefits to both the employing content providers and us consumers. For a couple of pounds to watch some good film content is it worth trying to get round it?
Surely we should applaud real commitment and innovation during these economic times, especially as they’re a UK company and this looks like it could be used globally.
Anonymous Coward
Um... free porn with sunday papers... #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 15:05 GMT

Er, "give away with sunday papers"... "went down well with the porn industry".
So we can 'look forward' to porn DVDs dropping out of the sunday supplement, carefully locked down so that the "call now" banner flashes up just as she's undoing his trousers or something?
And its completely unlikely that teenagers will be more than happy to "share" their parents' phone numbers so they can 'enjoy the premium content' as the actress said to the bishop?
Riiiiight.... I can already see my teenage sons hanging around in the hall waiting for the paper to arrive....
Enrico Vanni
@ readers of Paul Gooderham's comment #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 15:05 GMT
Spot the shill!
(Not exactly 'Where's Wally' complexity).
ShaggyDoggy
Globally ? #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 15:05 GMT
Oh you mean a US corp realises that they didn't invent the tech, buys out the UK company, directors make a packet, closes down UK operation, all tech moved to US, redbranded as their own invention.
Anonymous Coward
Yes, lets all applaud #
Posted Friday 3rd April 2009 15:05 GMT
Because if this becomes widespread, people using VLC to watch movies will get all their DVDs for almost free. A great idea, if you ask me.