back to article Oracle and HP proposed joint Sun dismemberment deal

Oracle and Hewlett-Packard are believed to have made a joint offer for Sun Microsystems in a deal totaling more than $2bn. Under the deal, database giant Oracle would have taken Sun's software portfolio for $2bn, leaving HP with Sun's vast Solaris, Sparc, and x86 server products, manufacturing and distribution, and user base. A …

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Anonymous Coward

Nice Try HP !

. . . but Sun is worth far far more than that & IBM are skilled and clever people with deep pockets . .

there may well be further similar attempts at competitive and collaborative deals for Sun and if the

IBM deal should fall through unless IBM already have locked in on Sun . . .

Ray

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Stop

Oracle buying MySQL?

*shudder*

Would they call it Oracle 11 Lite?

The freetards would restandardize on Postgres in an instant.

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Unhappy

April 1st already?

This is just silly - Sun has OpenSourced most of its products, why would Oracle be interested in any off it. HP I can understand - they need a competitive RISC chip ASAP - Rock will fit just fine and the Niagra's can, with some competent marketing, be world beaters.

Unfortunately - some of the technology is so intertwined between software of hardware that you can not split that up - see the new Sun Open Storage Platform.

This could never have been an option - but it would be better to have Sun been sliced and diced into usable parts than been assimilated by the deep blue Borg and have limbs chopped off to fit into its dark view of the world :)

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USD2billion *just* for the software?

WTF? The value of Java, OpenSolaris, Solaris, Cluster, Lustre, ... has got to be a few billion more than that!

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Interesting

That it would be ok for Oracle to kill the only free database option? Can you imagine the comments if Microsoft was trying to acquire Firefox..

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Alien

Having Troubles/Problems? Feeling Blue, Ray? **

"Nice Try HP ! .... . . but Sun is worth far far more than. " ....By Anonymous Coward Ray Posted Thursday 26th March 2009 22:31 GMT

AC Ray,

Sun is only worth what someone who can utilise its resources/leverage/IP can deliver. As the article clearly points out, the present chief executive Jonathan Schwartz is long on rhetoric and short on performance and IT Market Delivery...... which in todays Changed Climate is lacking in the Virtualisation Field.

However, there would be nothing to stop Sun forging ahead on its own and claiming that it has a revised and renewed Policy to Lead in the Delivery of Stealthy Covering Cloud Services to Enable Secure High Value Business Creations to Flourish Virtually on the Web, rather than be Earth Bound and Constrained by all those Taxing Rules and Regulations, to Create an Out of this World Beta New Order, Transparently Web Built to Ensure Zero Chaos and Corruption, in the AI EduTainment Environment and Networks InterNetworking JAVA Applications* which will Feed its Births and Evolutions to Mainstream Establishment Media companies as AIR&dD News and Bigger Picture Views.

* Applications which can at Will, MetaDataMorph/Spontaneously Switch into VM Appliances/Binary Engines/AIdDrivers for Advanced IntelAIgent ProgramMING of its Own Applications, too......... for Greater Self Sufficiency/Sustaining Maintenance/Awareness for Total Information Learning.

And all that requires is Sun's Investment Purchase/Asset Acquisition of a Mentor and Monitoring Corporate IDEntity with such AI Portfolio/Virtual Intellectual Property. Although there are always other alternative possibilities such as would IBM, or HP, or Oracle, or whoever doing exactly that, and then buying Sun for fraction of what they are presently supposed to be Offering, for it difficult to see the worth being quoted above bottom dollar, if they cannot perform in the Market Place because they are lacking that Killer Application Potentials that takes Media and Entertainment by Revolutionary Storm/Evolutionary Zeal, for that's where Popular Command and Control and Sublime Programming for Beta Universal Perceptions Management is at. And yes, IT is very MkUltraSensitive Manchurian Candidate Type XXXXistentialism ...... but so what? Such is the SurReal Nature of Virtual Reality Played and Virtualised into Reality.

And then whenever you think about it again, what would they be buying Sun for in the First place if they don't have Future Technology for Popular Command and Control of QuITe Sublimely Stealthy Power Systems?

** NIRobotIQs has Semantic Answers to All Probing ProgramMING Questions.

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Stop

$2BN for a company with a market cap. >$6BN?

Yes the blood's in the water around Sun but reporting a rumor of an offer of less than 1/3rd of it's market cap. that makes no sense at all, what's next, Dell, Cisco and Walmart offer $10 for Sun?

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Happy

I feel sorry for the Sun reps.

Our poor Sun salesgrunt was round the other day to give us an "update" on Sun technology and where it's going, and he did try his hardest to be upbeat and "Sun is the way to go", but when it got round to question time he got deflated straight away by a question from one of the PFYs along the lines of; "Which of these products do you think will survive an IBM purchase?"

I'm pretty certain it's someone with shares, probably in the SAM camp, that have leaked the whole purchase thing from the start in the hope of driving up the share price and prodding more bidders to come of out of the woodwork. Unfortunately, as for our poor rep, it has made the Sun sales bods' positions untenable - how can they be expected to sell product when all the customers are getting this very visible death-dive going on in the background? I suspect the best of them are already lining up jobs with competitors or looking to multi-vendor resellers, probably not much fun in this downturn.

Our own rep was stoicly loyal, though, saying he prefered to wait it out and see what the eventual deal brings. In the words of Sir Alan Sugar - "Schmuck!" Always pays to have a back-up plan ready to go, just in case.

All this story confirms is that Sun has been hawking itself round for quite a while (an Oracle-hp alliance would have taken months to discuss), probably over a year, which just makes the ludicrous Sunshiner posts here over the last year all the more comic! Please note, Sunshiners - hp didn't want the crippled Sun software bizz, just the Sun SPARC installed base. Just goes to show that Hurd isn't that big an idiot.

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Pirate

What the...

And I thought 8 billion USD for Sun was thought cheap by industry observers? What exactly made HP + Oracle think they could get a fast snuff action with little cash there?

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I think its nearly time.....

Enter Fujitsu stage left

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Pirate

The Vultures...

...are circling the carcase !!

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Unhappy

surprise

"MySQL management have been unhappy with the fact Sun's management has not been listening to their advice on strategy and direction."

Sun's management doesn't listen to *anyone's* advice on strategy and direction, even from inside Sun, that's why it's in such deep shit.

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Em
Coat

I'll be the first to suggest it...

But Apple should think about making a play. 'Why?' you scream out (probably only thinking of Apple as a consumer business)? Well, let me explain:

1. Apple has an array of server products Xserve, XSAN, etc.

2. Apple has slowly been improving and extending its offerings to businesses. Traditionally focussed at smaller businesses, the server products are now supporting ever features that will appeal to larger organisations - e.g. better virtualisation support, system management software.

3. Apple is a 'sexy' company with a lot of marketing capital behind it. Compare it with Sun who have a lot of developer mind-share (from Java) and clearly lots of clever brains (ZFS). Sun could benefit from the Apple image and Apple could benefit from inheriting the smart technologies at Sun.

4. Apple and Sun have a good relationship - look at ZFS, commitment to support Java, etc.

5. Sun does have mature experience in mobile systems learnt from JavaME. Their strategy may not have been perfect but there is still some neat lessons Apple could benefit from.

6. We can see that the iPhone is supporting more and more corporate technologies (remote deactivate, central configuration and support for Exchange Push). This, coupled with increased demand of Mac workstations from business users is creating interest from IT departments to consider Macs more fairly in comparison to traditional server technologies (Windows).

Making a play for Sun, Apple would inherit some clever people who can improve the core OS X and add clever new technologies. They could also gain instant credibility in dealing with businesses - a direction they're already slowly moving towards.

Oh, and Apple has over $16bn in the bank and from past executive comments, acquisitions are likely when the right opportunities come up.

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Stop

How to destroy a great company by not paying for it....

FUD, who will buy or use anything Sun have to offer if they think IBM, Oracle, or HP will end of life all their products as soon as they possibly can?

HP why do they need Sparc, they have Itanium, yeah I know. HP's Intel/AMD server's are on a par with Sun's. Lots of commonality in the storage department. So the only reason they would do this is to take out a competitor.

Oracle, still haven't absorbed BEA properly yet, so what would they do with Sun's stack?

IBM ditto, they don't need Sun, so it's all about taking out a competitor, so we get left with Intel & IBM driving processor design, Oracle & Microsoft driving software, sounds like hell to me.

But of course the longer this crap goes on the worse Sun's position, in the Market.

BTW, don't forget Sun Ray, which is unique, I think and gaining a lot of traction in government.

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Dead Vulture

Sun M-Class systems will be the first products to be killed

Fujitsu SPARC chips? End of Life!

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IT Angle

Enter Fuji stage left

I was out on the beers the other night with a Fuji people. Fuji would love to buy Sun but there is no money in the honeypot after NHS pushed them.

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Jobs Halo

RE: I'll be the first to suggest it...

Yeah, maybe Jobs may also save Ponytail and keep him employed, by putting him back to write objective-c applications for NEXTStep.. ooops Cocoa. It seems it is the only thing he has ever shown to be good at. Oracle, IBM, HP would definitely kick him out.

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The most telling statement in the article is

the exodus of smart, talented folks from acquisitions that Sun makes because

management of the company refuses to listen to the talent it just bought.

This has happened again and again over the years. How the management at

Sun hasn't been sued into the ground for fidicuary irresponsibility is beyond me.

If Sun was profitable, and the stock was at $25, I couldn't justify those statements,

but the mismanagement of Sun is the real reason the company is doing poorly.

The current economic situation is just the current excuse-de-jour, because they

expect the public to believe their "press"

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Anonymous Coward

@amanfrommars & Matt

Feel Great Thanks and have been Indigo not blue or yellow all the way through. My view is Indigo is the best solution and also CISCO acquire EMC would be interesting. Don't mind who gets Sun or they get to keep themselves but it'd be nice to think of the Sun people and for some Sun technologies to survive perhaps.

HP and Oracle are fine as they are nice solutions that do work but do wish Oracle were more price realistic than price escalator on Power. Negotiate and bargain.

Matt, yep sure is fun to watch the Sun salesgrunts right now the point is no one knows and we customers know as much as this as they do.

I sold all my Sun Feb 2008 which was late should've sold Nov 2007 with the ridiculous four for one stock split.

The problem with Sun is Sun can't sell.

Fuji sometimes can but @Enter Fuji stage left . . . that's a bit the beer talking, NHS fiasco apart which is an exuse - a thin shell stuffed with a lie -- Fuji have their own broad set of problems running the business and don't have funds to compare with IBM, Cisco and the other major leaguers.

Note only IBM and Fuji have proven mainframe capabilities Z and GS21 some MF RAS spilt into SPARC64 and PRIMPEPOWER & MClass

If Indigo happens, then Fuji likely to be offered SPARC to buy and my guess is Fuji will want to continue it and service SUN SPARC base . . . unless IBM can get past antitrust and keep SPARC in which case will FUJI be compelled to continue to supply -- due diligence needed -- and its likely to fade away leaving POWER as king with Intel.

Are we ready for enterprise server duopoly or would an open competitive market be much better, its very early to converge enterprise innovation.

The out of the blue could be some new idea, waferscale cellular arrays or somesuch?

The uncertainty about Sun won't help this years numbers. Sun EOY = June 30th 2009.

Sun should've learned how to sell and that means gaining and keeping customer's trust and not the awful ego arrogance that appeared with their Y2K market blip success.

Regards

Ray

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IT Angle

HPs Hypocracy knows no bounds

HPs part of the bargain being financed by pay cuts (and extra pay cuts if you're an ex-EDSER).

Good old Mark Hurd.

Hey I know Mark, what about more pay cuts and raiding pension funds to finance...but of course you're already doing that arent you..you lying toe-rag.

HP is a company of lies.

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Coat

I have to just wonder.....

If this is Ponytail's way of forcing the government to hand out some of that bailout $$

to him if the the antitrus.gov guys nix any sale due to competition killing?

This could possibly work!

AC 'cuz I work @ SMI.

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Boffin

RE: @amanfrommars & Matt

Hmmm, not sure if CISCO could buy EMC seeing as they may not be able to deal with the EMC ego factor (old joke, but they've been refered to as Ego Maniacs Corporation), but some kind of partnership between EMC and CISCO would definately make sense.

Whilst Fujitsu may not have enough cash in the pot for an outright buy, if they did something inventive like a share swap and took on some of Sun's costs then it might allow Sun to struggle on, though Fujitsu would probably want them to drop the Galaxy kit and concentrate on the Primergy range instead. Fujitsu would be the best fit for a Sun that doesn't want to change too much, but then not changing fast enough or in the right way has been what has got Sun in trouble in the first place.

The "Indigo" option probably offers the most for Sun employees - burrow into the mass of IBM and hide out the recession, who knows they may even get to like it - as long as they can adapt to the different management style. Being bought by just about anyone else would probably involve a large number of staff cuts.

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Anonymous Coward

@Em

haha ahaha aha aha ahaha aha aha a ahaha aaha a hahahaha ahahah a aha a ahaha aha ah aa aha ah aha aha ha a haa aa ha aha ah aha ha aha aha haah ah ahha ha ha ahah ha haha

(I can only hope from the icon that you were not being serious)

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@Fuji sometimes can but @Enter Fuji stage left . . . that's a bit the beer talking

I think you are a bit misled my friend. Fuji are making more money now out of the NHS contract than they did before they terminated it!

Funny old world!

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Anonymous Coward

IBM Mgmt Needs To Take Over

IBM could improve Sun's profitability by making it an IBM Operating Unit and replacing its upper management. They could then sell off any unwanted parts over time after the economy picks up again.

Sun's sales organization is still too top-heavy for their revenue. But Sun keeps cutting non-mgmt positions like that is going to help.

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No basis for this, but I have a feeling...

So, something about this is just fishy. This whole gig reminds me of when BMW made a bid for Rolls-Royce then strangely stepped back when VW came in with a bid for it. BMW seemed to just roll over, but as we found out later VW ended up only with outdated manufacturing and Bentley (not that it is bad if you want to sell bling cars to footballers), but BMW had quietly stepped back knowing they had rights to the Rolls-Royce name, the really valuable piece, from previous contracts. Is there something going on here that we haven't seen yet?

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Anonymous Coward

an HP deal would be so bad...

HP know nothing about operating systems- just look at how bad PHUX really is. Nobody in the real world uses PHUX.

HP have a huge hole in the product portfolio which really just now consists of PCs and printers - their server offerings are laughable so I can understand which HP have been sniffing around ; they need the lifeline prob more than Sun does.

Still, it looks like IBM will be the ultimate owner thanks for the pony-tailed wonder and his complete lack of clue.

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Unhappy

I feel sorry for

I feel sorry for - Matt Bryant.

In the words of Sir Alan Sugar - "Schmuck!"

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Paris Hilton

Re @Em and I'll be the first to suggest it...

" haha ahaha aha aha ahaha aha aha a ahaha aaha a hahahaha ahahah a aha a ahaha aha ah aa aha ah aha aha ha a haa aa ha aha ah aha ha aha aha haah ah ahha ha ha ahah ha haha

(I can only hope from the icon that you were not being serious)" .... By Anonymous Coward Posted Friday 27th March 2009 17:30 GMT

A Sun Kissed Apple ......as MetaDataMorphed and Considered as Passionate Mutually Agreeable XXXXtra Marital Love Affairs in Open Swinging Circles ..... would surely allow all Parties to Practices and Champion what they are Best at, with Excellence of Delivery and Performance being a Most Satisfying and Satisfactory Driver for Attracting Attractive Satisfying Businesses.

Working together would not cost either of them a red cent in any divisive and costly purchase but would instead deliver new revenue which can be kick started with dumb Cash in the Bank [and both companies are cash rich are they not, but presently Intellectual Property moribund] being Freely Spent/Internally Invested on New Outside the Box Drivers, which can Engage and Energise with their Service/Business Model........ Swing with their Business Model thus to both Energise and Protect and Increase their Currency/Market Penetration/Internetional Prescience.

Hell, Hey Dude, both Sun and Apple are not your usual Vanilla Company and they aint gonna work well for or with any normal business-suit type company. It is probably IBM who are realising that they are the vulnerable, out dated and out moded Operation in a World of Cloud Derivative Layers and Virtually Invisible and Intangible Players in a Great and Powerful Command with Controlling AIMMORPGames.

A Virgin Dynamic Landscape/Virtual Cyber Environment Populating Itself with Viable Business Models and Exotic and Erotic Partners for the Mystery and Mastery of Her Immaculate Controls and Manic Addictive Driving Passions ..... ITs Astutely Designed HyperRadioProActive Desire Neural Core Texts ....... Source Initiating Networks....... Pleasurable Advices.

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Happy

RE: an HP deal would be so bad... & RE: I feel sorry for

Not bitter, then? ROFLMAO!!!

"HP know nothing about operating systems- just look at how bad PHUX really is. Nobody in the real world uses PHUX...." Hey, it's great here in the imaginary world! And by some strange tech, hp seem to have been able to make real PROFITS out of imaginary hp-ux sales! Wow! And Sun can't even make a profit on real sales. Just goes to show how far behind Slowaris still is.

"....HP have a huge hole in the product portfolio which really just now consists of PCs and printers ..." More like you have a big hole in your knowledge of hp's product ranges. Mind you, it must be hard to see anything round that Sunshiner Blindfold™. I wonder if any of the Sunshiners will every have the guts or decency to come back and post admitting they were wrong when Sun has gone the way of the dodo?

"....their server offerings are laughable so I can understand which HP have been sniffing around...." <Sigh> I see you need to be reminded again that hp is the number one server vendor, number one enterprise UNIX server vendor, etc, etc, etc. It's getting boring now - can't you just write on the inside of your blindfold "Sun is a struggling minnow in the server game, hp and IBM are the killerwhales" - it would make it a lot easier whilst the reality of Sun's demise is kicking you in the pants.

"...Still, it looks like IBM will be the ultimate owner thanks for the pony-tailed wonder and his complete lack of clue." Well, I know that I've made fun of ol' Ponytail, but, to be honest, he simply inherited a bad hand from McNeedy. Whilst Schwartz hasn't helped matters, the real architect of Sun's death has been McNealy all along, it's just Schwartz who will be remembered as the Ponytail at the helm when the ship hit the rocks.

RE: I feel sorry for

"I feel sorry for - Matt Bryant....." Ah, thanks, but I think there's a mass of bewildered Sunshiners that will soon be more deserving of your pity. Oh, hold on a sec - you're one! I see the reality hasn't quite seeped through to your deluded little mind just yet. Can't be much longer, even for a loon like yourself....

/still smiling, still pointing!

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Anonymous Coward

@RE: @amanfrommars & Matt

Yes, Yes, Yes, I agree with all your valid and considered point Matt

EMC strength and greatest weakness is their ego. Strength as its got them to market leadership in high end storage and weakness in terms of holding onto the hegemony - also see Chris Mellor's article today of EM's Tucci succession

In terms of Cisco EMC JV I suppose that already exists a bit with the California server project including VMWare

Agree also on Fuji-Sun tie up already a longterm partnership and I've always wondered why it hasn't been closer and its a more obvious move now and would safeguard technology and maybe jobs

In terms of Indigo if this could be made to work in an enlightened way, IBM could ditch SPARC and Solaris but there are good reasons to keep it and that too could be good for jobs and technology longevity

Meanwhile the uncertainty is helping kill Sun and doing IBM no favors either and that's surely an unfortunate thing for both

Also don't understand why bloggers take pot shots at you and amanfromars, I think that you both are best el reg bloggers

have you been or are you off on your hols this week?

Regards

Ray

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Anonymous Coward

Re @Em and I'll be the first to suggest it...

Yes this reminds me of Sun's share campaign and i think that they are onto something with this and maybe are a bit too early to a new collaborative way forward for the IT industry and i see the cloud manifesto attempt even though its partisan as an indicator of newer and better ways forward

Sun-Apple is also an obvious alignment but Apple seem so much to reject Enterprise IT which is a shame as I think even though a lot of IT support people are so pro PCs and poo poo Apple - Apple have a lot to offer Enterprise and with Parallels and VMWare Macs will run windows apps

Sun-Apple-Google? Sun-Apple-Microsoft? Both?

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Anonymous Coward

@Re @Em and I'll be the first to suggest it...

don't forget google !

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Anonymous Coward

Just some silly thoughts, I know.

What would make sense for IBM to keep from a Sun acquisition?

- Java. IBM hates Microsoft. Keeping Java keeps MS out of a serious bunch of business.

- Installed base. Sun has been the shining star in entry-level Unix deployments, Telcos, and,

when it comes to open systems in general, in the financial industry.

Sun has by far the biggest number of applications available on Solaris.

Most likely bigger then the sum of apps on AIX and HP-UX.

More or less as an experiment, Solaris tuns today already on Mainframes (zSeries) and

Unix machines (pSeries).

So why not enable Solaris to run on pSeries within an lpar, next to an AIX lpar, next to an i-OS lpar..?

This could definitely keep some Solaris customers on IBM Hardware.

And the migration from Sparc to Power would be good business for Global Services.

- MySQL? Maybe. just some sort of "DB2-lite" for the OpenSource community.

What IBM would dump:

- Sparc. Design and manufacturing of processors is a quite expensive thing to do,

and not under all circumstances profitable.

- Storage, x86 based Servers, Tape-Libraries, basically all hardware stuff.

The idea of Oracle and HP bidding together for Sun made no sense at all.

Biggest value from Sun is in software. This would have gone to Oracle.

All the hardware: hp would have stopped it immediately, since in most cases,

hp has equal or better offerings.

(Aside from Itanium... Rock would definitely have been a thing to look at..)

So hp would be left with the faith to "own" the installed base. Lol..

And, as usual (Wang, Apollo, Dec/Tru64, just to name a few) they'd throw away or ignore any

software-related technology that fell into their hands.

Including the customer base that bought those products because of the technology..

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Black Helicopters

Did Oracle do any real damage via the InnoDB purchase?

"MySQL developers have since filled the InnoDB gap."

With what?

"given Oracle's ... tried through InnoDB to kill MySQL"

Did it succeed to any degree?

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Laryy! Dear, dear Larry!

Larry is "all mouth and no trousers", as my Gran used to say. He only wants Sun's corpse for bragging rights, he can then stamp "Copyright Oracle Corp 200x" all over MySQL. I don't think he will kill it outright, indeed Oracle has bought other stuff and given it away free'ish, he simply wants to stamp his little red logo over everything Sun has/had. Then you will know "Who's the Daddy!"!

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