Microsoft has announced 27 more changes to its upcoming Windows 7 operating system. The software giant, which seems to be increasingly in a rush to shove its next OS out the door, said today it had applied yet another set of tweaks to the release candidate of Windows 7 following gripes suggestions from beta testers. The RC is …
Yes...tweaks, that's what they are.
Is this the bit where they cram in all the bloat and DRM?
... so ....
... once again, you're not buying a finished product but a public beta. And being charged through the nose for it.
Even -if- I'm forced to switch to yet another non-compatible version of Windows (happy XP user here), I'm going to wait until at least SP1, let them get the -critical- bugs out of the way ...
Why do I feel underwhelmed
Wow 27 changes whole, I got that last time I typed "yum update". And why pray does it take 0.4seconds to load a wav file. Heard of multi threading?
That's implying it'll be "Ready" soon?
The same way VISTA was "ready?", and didn't need to download a whopping 100mb of patches on first reboot, never mind the 500mb of SP1 stuff?
The same way Home server was "ready", but still managed to fundamentally bugger up it's File system handling until SP1, permanently wiping user data? Ie the sort of things you'd expect servers *not* to do, out the box?
That Office 2007 was "ready", but was already downloading patches, barely a month after purchase?
I could go on...but if my currently-cooking pizza was made by microsoft, I'd take it out on schedule, and have to put it straight back in again for another 10 minutes until it was properly "ready".
Sorry MS - I've left, and not coming back.
I for one am glad
that they have dropped the logoff/logon WAVs, not for the speed difference in boot time, just purely because they are annoying and always the first thing I turn off in any fresh Windows installation.
I just hope that not testing their tweaks by releasing another Beta doesn't bite them in the ass, as I am really liking the look of Windows 7
Even if it doesn't like my Nvidia cards or my DVD drives, I'll definitely consider upgrading when SP1 comes out as I never jump onto a Windows OS until at least that point.
Mine's the one with the Windows 7 Beta DVD in the pocket.
purely for the sake of pedantry, they've trimmed the WAV files in question, i.e. sliced off a bit of silence from the start or ends of the files, rather than deleted them. Hence the 400ms saving.
Great as this is, I guess the poor chumps (I mean beta testers, myself included) won't be able to actually test these changes until it's released?
I did give Windows 7 a try and being a hardcore Linux user I was plesantly surprised. I have Vista and Ubuntu on my notebook (I'm typing this on Firefox on Vista) and it runs like a dog, Windows 7 was really snappy though on the same hardware (Core 2 Duo 2Ghz, 4GB Ram). The only reason I went back to Vista was because Windows 7 kept crashing (hardly surprising being a Beta). I'd love the opportunity to see if they have made any of the changes I mentioned in the feedback I gave.
for Microsoft to announce that Windows 7 is available as a free upgrade to those who bought Vista or had it foisted on them with a new PC/laptop.
XP SP3 in vmware(Ubuntu 8.04 host) on a 1.83Ghz Core2Duo 1Gb ram laptop appears to run quicker than Windows 7 running natively on the same laptop. I guess if I ran some demanding(memory intensive) apps the situation would reverse given that XP on vmware has only 512Mb allocated.
Another Roll Eyes Moment
God damn it, im sick of microsoft haters.
If it wasnt for them we could very well be stuck in CLI days with a very basic GUI,
But we dont know that.
Everything is linked in one way or another. So while Vista was a dog, just think of it this way, we all use computers in a different way, and half of the code was rewritten, so while they may try and use it in as many ways as possible they still wont get all the ways down.
Its a never ending circle.
So why dont you got back to your lil corners with your linux laptops while i sit back, listen to some music on Mac OS X 10.5.6, and write this up and look at your whinish tantrums on IE8 on Windows 7, so yeah, not EVERYONE has a bad experience, so if I were you, get your head out your ass and see that the world isnt about you.
...here we go again!
I have tried Windows 7 build 7048 and was not at all surprised by the results. It does consume less resources than Vista (any incarnation), but still needs far more than XP. Indeed on a machine that Vista installs and finds all the updates and drivers (an old Athlon 1400 with 512mb of ram), it actually performs worse, not really an eye opener in the context of a beta. But since Microsoft deems beta quality software fit for the general public then build 7048 will not be far wide of the mark with regards an RTM release.
The aforementioned system has similar all round capabilities as modern entry level netbooks. I've always wondered why they earmarked Windows 7 Starter ,the one with the three application limit, for this market. I guess we now know, and its probably just as well.
The Redmond posse will explain to the rest of us how we misunderstood Vista, and that Microsoft in their infinite wisdom and generosity have given unto us another chance with Windows 7. We also have the honour of becoming official beta testers to an unfinished product, is there no end to their munificence?
Microsofties the world over will herald Windows 7 as the saviour of mankind in these dark and troubled times. Meanwhile the rest of us shall view this as nothing more than business as usual.
And to those that camp outside your local software emporium on the night before release, enjoy Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Special Edition Remix Directors Cut Bonus Feature Everything Including the Kitchen Sink...Windows 7. Chances are you paid for it twice after all.
Looks like Microsoft are totally
closing in on what really matters - they turned off the log out sound. Radical stuff. I must pay a hundred quid for it. I knew there had been something crap about Windows. And the time it took to play the log out sound was it. Now it's brilliant!
Will it still take -how long? to boot? and use half a gig to just sit there? Cos that's what I like best about windows
Been running Windows 7 (build 7000) since it became available on MSDN six or seven weeks ago.
It has been faultless. I'm running it on a Dell D830 laptop and using Visual Studio 2008, SQL Server Express, Office 2007, Adobe CS4 and not had any problems.
It runs a fair bit quicker than Vista too. As an MSDN subscriber I'll get it free anyway, but I would be more than happy to pay for it.
The only minor fault is the perofrmance of media player it seems to take a few seconds to open certain file types and the when skipping around using the scroller sometimes gets lost, but this could just be down to FFDShow.
People are obviously going to point out Linux is marginally quicker and OSX is slightly prettier, but as Windows goes it a huge improvement over Vista.
@AC 16:33 re. WAV files
You mean that while it's playing a .wav file, it can't do anything else?
63 changes huh?
And yet it still takes 63 clicks to change your freaking IP address. (Microsoft, its lovely that you think we should be able to store our most commonly used IPs. However, the danm thing never works and you just end up haning to clear out all the 0.0.0.0s you assign). Asking a user to look for the tiny little local area connection link when they cant even find a regualr XP sized icon is rediculous. And forget asking an end user to use the run command becsue it takes you another 15 minutes to explain to them how to add it to their start menu.
I've been using 7 for a while now and while I do admit it is much faster than vista, there are still definite advantages to XP as far as support goes.
I imagine shutting down the audio device would be postponed until *after* the shutdown jingle has played ..
Paris, because multithreading means getting both eyebrows done at once
Been There, Done That, Been Burned
As a software developer I can appreciate the pressures that cause a product to be released with untested last-minute changes. But I can tell you that *every single time* I have done this, I have been burned. Badly! Rules and recommendations exist for a reason, and you ignore them at your peril. Unfortunately, release schedules aren't made by developers or Q&A, they're made by the PHB who believes that an extra round of testing is a waste of time and money. Their motto: "Quality is job 1.1" (or, "We'll fix it when enough people complain").
Sure glad Microsoft does not make condoms
With testing like that I'd end up with more kids than a circus tent could hold and a nasty infection or two along the way.
Paris -- She knows an itchy infection or three.
...deja vu, again. Yo Jake!
Cue scene from South Park or Beavis and Butthead:
"Bill Gates invented the computer, single handedly...you know on his own dude, like nobody else was involved...ever."
"Without Gates and his vision, we would be without Windows and it's absolute superiority to anything that exist now, or will ever exist...ever. Dude, are you getting me? Does my haircut look bogus, not that I know what bogus means, it just sounds cool, ya know."
"I keep being prodded and poked to read these cue-cards, all they had to do was to contact my elocution teacher and arrange a photo-shoot. This mobile phone, is it rotary? Does it matter if it's not rotary?"
"Windows 7...sounds...cool...sort of. So 7 is better than 6? What do you mean there was no 6? 6 was Vista...sorry you lost me. "
"It's not fair, it's just not fair. People keep dissing Windows 7. LIKE IT HAS NOT EVEN BEEN RELEASED YET, OFFICIALLY LIKE. Damn, Windows 7 killed Kenny...cool!"
"Redmond execs will doubtless be crossing their fingers"
Best. Software. Release. Policy. Ever.
You didn't use a GUI before windows came along in '95? That's your fault not the rest of us, MS have slowed computer advancement not helped it.
Adding new features and tweaks.. Why does that sound to me like they sent out the good version as a beta to get a bit of positive press, and the release version will be stuffed to the brim with new "value" that nobody wants.
Cheer up Windows users.. They have plenty of time to muck it up between now and release date. The marketing department will surely find something to add that will make it a must have.
WTF are you trying to say?
Oh wait I understand - is the beer at least cold?
Your hash pipe must be in one of your coat pockets...
>> You didn't use a GUI before windows came along in '95?
He quite possibly used the various versions of windows which included a GUI in the decade before windows 95? Or did you not realise that win95 wasnt, in fact, ms's first OS release?
here's the irony
Our local garage asked me to have a look at one of their PCs as it was taking a little longer than normal to pull files over the network. reason = failing NIC. dropped in a new one, drivers etc and restarted.
Took less time to get to the desktop than vista, opened the network quite quickly and generally felt snappier than my dual core vista ultimate box of crap.
The PC I was working on was a Pentuim II 233 with a 4Gb hard drive and 128Mb ram running W98 first edition.
It was a trip down memory lane, ISA slots, SD ram and the mobo was older that my 14 year old son!!
So how come 14+ years later with CPUs and bus speeds 20 times faster, this little 233 could run rings around Vista. Somethings not right!!
Bitchy lot the FOSS crowd...
Read the article tux huggers...
"The RC is widely expected to land next month."
At which point feel free to test. There could very well be multiple release candidates as XP and Vista both had.
Microsoft have also listed the exact changes here: http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/03/13/a-few-more-changes-from-beta-to-rc.aspx
See screenshots and a summary list here: http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/03/13/windows-7-few-more-changes-from-beta-to-rc
Re: Another Roll Eyes Moment
"If it wasnt for them we could very well be stuck in CLI days with a very basic GUI,"
WTF? Have you just digested a copy of "the world according to Bill Gates" or something?
Without fail, every, Microsoft operating system (no, don't get pedantic about the use of "operating system") has been lagging behind whatever else is available. This isn't to say that MS haven't done some things better than the original or that having a more ubiquitous user interface isn't a good thing from the end user point of view, but claiming that without MS we'd be stuck in the days of CLI is just amusingly fanbois-ish.
When MS were still peddling versions of DOS, various other operating systems had graphical interfaces - AmigaOS, GEM (Atari ST), Apple, AcornRiscThingy and doubtless a few others. At the time, all of these OSes were significantly superior to DOS and the early versions of windows in almost every way. A lot of innovative features in these early OSes and graphical shells have subsequently made it into the Windows and Apple user interfaces.
Yeah you tell 'em Nick (Ryan) 20:00 GMT
M$ didn't invent the GUI they ripped it off Apple who in turn ripped it from Xerox.
They, M$, haven't been leaders in innovation at all they just buy up anyone who has a good idea and let the marketing boys hide the feature in the bloat they sell.
Just out of interest what exactly is wrong with CLI, it is still used by the real professionals, only "users" need a GUI as on the whole they don't understand or care about what the computer is actually doing.
This is where M$ did very well, in convincing companies that ten monkeys who can use a GUI are equivalent to an Engineer. The monkeys may eventually get it right by clicking them buttons at random but when it really matters you need someone who knows what they are doing and CLI is very good at separating the monkeys from the men.
Lets be honest here
In addition to what Nick Ryan has stated:
Microsoft operating systems are to running a PC what Horace goes skiing was to gaming.
All those who laud over Microsoft do so because they know no better, Microsoft business practices have made Windows and MS Office ubiquitous not the quality nor efficiency of code.
Professional page, Page Stream, Calamus, NEOchrome, Degas, Delux Paint, Cuebase, Notator, Cyber Studio's CAD-3D, 3D-Calc all manged to run on Atari ST and/or Amiga platforms without crashing or fucking up the system. Add to this that they were not so entangled with the OS that they were a security risk and one realises that although pretty and easy to use for the average retard, Microsoft software is in fact a step backwards.
If evolution followed Microsoft methodology, life would be no more than sea dwelling over complex, interdependent multicellular organisms where the death of one cell meant the extinction of a species.
Face It XP pro with service pk 3 Is as good as It's gonna get, but If you must.. wait at least 6mo or til the 1st service pk Is ready.
We don't need another beta
This is already the most intensively tested and previewed service pack in history. If you want to have a go at Microsoft, focus on the *real* issue: that they are charging Vista users for a service pack.
Re: Re: Another Roll Eyes Moment
>WTF? Have you just digested a copy of "the world according to Bill Gates" or something?
No, I think it was called "The Beginner's Guide to Trolling Nerds."
Another MS Fast Track
At least MS continues to do what has always been successful for them. The last attempt at 'Fast Tracking' something was with the document standards. That bought them so much wonderful publicity that they could not resist doing another 'Fast Track'.
"He quite possibly used the various versions of windows which included a GUI in the decade before windows 95? Or did you not realise that win95 wasnt, in fact, ms's first OS release?"
Decade before Windows 95? Which version of 'Windows' would that be in 1985?
Some of us remember those days; I remember using a Mac, Sun, Amiga and even an Acorn RiscOS machine while at university in 1986-1990. I even looked at developing on a GEOS system at one stage after being disappointed with Windows 3.0, but the company I worked for went down the OS2 route after advise from MS and others. All these OS's had GUI 's and didn't see to have odd restrictions like 8 character file-names.
So without MS, we would have had decent GUI's a long time ago. Looks like MS are doing a far better job of marketing Win7 this time around, even though it will share a bunch of issues with its Vista parent (and I am running Vista x64 at the moment).
Personally, I think W7 would be better if MS bundled a bunch of useful tools with it (like Ubuntu) - say Firefox/Safari, Ifranview, Python etc
Please would everybody stop moaning that this is being released half baked !!
Vista was the Alpha release
W7 7048 was the beta
And windows 7 will be released and work fine :D
yes i do hate the vista style i want my 2000 classic look
wierd funky start menu !!
and no upgrade from XP to W7
So do they think current XP users (both business and home) who are running XP and don't ever expect to use Fista are going to just up and buy a new computer to run W7 because they know it's based on Fista's ridiculous hardware requirments?
Wise up, Stupids.
Did you read it right?
The beta is over. This means they reckon Windows 7 is feature complete. The RC will leave room for bugs to be fixed, just no features to be added.
So why the rants about it being buggy or released as beta?
I'm all for giving Microsoft a hard time... but at least give em a proper shot to defend themselves.
Too late... I bought a MAC
I didn't really realize how bad windows was until I started using something else.