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back to article UK IT should 'fire men first', says Kate Craig-Wood

Famed skydiving hosting-biz queenpin Kate Craig-Wood has called for IT companies hit by the recession to fire male employees before female ones, as men are - she says - paid more to do the same jobs. “In the IT industry women earn a massive 23 per cent less than male counterparts, despite being equally capable,” says Craig-Wood …

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Imagine the reaction ...

... if someone was to make the reverse recommendation.

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Coat

Yeah, good luck with that...

Who's going to lift the heavy servers?

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...must be mostly in the UK then

First off, I'm all for equality, but this is patently NOT the case in the US, at least at the companies I've worked for.

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False economy

since the payout on a sex-discrimination unfair dismissal lawsuit would cost a lot more.

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Bit sexist

Maybe they should fire women first for having disruptive 'career breaks' and the audacity to live longer and therefore need more pension money. Not my view, but the one using the same logic she's using.

Here's a better idea; lets, em, keep the folks that are actually good at what they do?

Can't wait for the tribunal if her company hits bad times and sacks more men than women.

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N
Bronze badge

Dear Kate Craig-Wood

Fuck off

Thats exactly the sort of attitude that creates divisions

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Joke

That's because...

...women spend 23% of their time at work doing their nails, talking about last nights episode of "Celebutard Housewives", spreading malicious rumours about the boss etc, etc.

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Anonymous Coward

Because of, or despite of?

From the article:

“We also know from research... that companies with the highest representation of women on top management teams perform more than 30 per cent better financially.”

At the risk of sounding sexist, are these companies performing better because of the women working there or despite them since they are in better position to succeed anyway?

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Anonymous Coward

hahahahaha

rofl hahaha etc, whatever

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Er,

Isn't this an incitement to break the law?

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Boffin

"number of women in UK IT has dropped from 21 to 16 per cent in recent years."

Despite Craig-Wood's best efforts? Natch.

Seriously though, one still has to wonder if that is due to the rapid expansion of the numbers of people in IT. Perhaps there is still growth in the numbers of women working in IT but it is not growing as fast as the numbers of men?

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Gold badge

Equal rights

Funny how those who call for equality and gender neutrality lash out and discriminate themselves.

Me thinks she has a chip on her shoulder.

IT is a male dominated industry for numerous reasons. In my experience the computer science degrees were largely a male arena. The women preferred to do business IT.

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How about firing people based on their ability and value to the company?

Or is that too simplistic a view?

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Stop

Women in IT are ugly

Nuff said

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Good luck with that

Wouldn't that be a clear case of sexual discrimination? And yes, it does work both ways.

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Anonymous Coward

Yea but...

We don't whine for a week every month or piss off and have babies and then continue to whine about the lack of childcare provision

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Stop

blah...blah....blah

Next she will be championing full maternity leave where a man can take up to a year off work (on half pay) and return to his same job with the full protection of the law - even if everyone else has been made redundant around him.

I agree about equal pay for equal skills, but really, this stupid outburst could not come at a worse time for our industry.

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Coat

Isn't that why we have Sexual Discrimintation Legislation.

See this is why they shouldn't be allowed out of the kitchen......

Mines the one with the flameproof lining.........

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Ash
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Sounds good to me!

I suggest that we decrease the carbon footprint of the UK, and reduce accidents on the roads, by making it illegal for women to drive a car.

What, you wanted sensible suggestions? Maybe ones with some hint of "equality?"

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stu
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Joke

sexchange

"This would not have been true some years ago when Craig-Wood was an executive at Easyspace - and a man."

always check out the adam's apple.

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Flame

yawn

Anyone can fire off stats to say how wonderful women workers are in IT (especially if your a boardmember for one of the organisations doing so). I make a point of ignoring 50% of all stats thrown my way, see what I did there :-)

My point may be biased because i'm a bloke but the office in which I work in has a number of women in it who call in sick AT LEAST once a month for a couple of days (I think we can all guess the reasons why!) thats at least 12 days a year. Convert that into lost time that a man simply wont suffer and you get your (stone age) theory hat men are a safer bet and thus pay them more.

Add to this the whole career-mom side where women can take half a year off on full pay and sometimes even another 6 months off after that, how much loss is the company suffering now? Again, another thing that men dont suffer (with our puny 2 week paternity leave - if your lucky)

Sorry ladies, you cant have your babies and eat them too. If you want to get paid more, get a sex change :-)

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So much for equal rights

I look forward to seeing this woman being sued into oblivion the first time she lays off a male employee, as this is surely a clear case of sexual discrimination

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Well thought out comment there....

All the male staff will be departing that company toute suite as no matter how good they are at their job should the need arrise they know they will be out the door before any female. I'm all for more women in the IT sector, god knows there are far too few, but with cretinous comments like this the spotlight will be well and truely on memset for the wrong reasons.

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Coat

Not enough Women in IT

To be fair, most women I speak to see IT as a geeky industry, and many just aren't at all interested in the very basics of computing. It has the same problem as the sciences, which is that whilst many women are probably very capable of doing the job, many do not want a career in that sector.

As for the pay differences, I always wonder about those. We get paid on spinal points, so if I am doing the same job as one of my colleagues, but he has been an employee for longer, he probably receives a higher wage. Given that the number of women in the Industry has only recently become noticeable, I wonder if this contributes to the 'Pay Differences'.

There are women at work who get paid more than I, a male, do. It's no reflection of expertise, just that they have been there longer than me and so are more experienced. And there are men and women who have been there less time than me, so they get paid less.

I don't doubt that there are places where women do get paid less, and the management probably explain the pay cut as necessary due to a lack of .... ahem,,,,,, equipment. But I doubt it is as widespread as many would have you believe.

And if you are paid less than a colleague (male or female) try to look on the bright side, you pay less tax than them!

I'll grab me coat, it's the one with the pink coloured P45 in it.

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Stop

Discrimination

Surely you put yourself at risk to a wrongful dismissal suit if your decision to make people redundant is based even in part on gender?

Bet that costs a few quid more than a pay difference!

If redundancies are to be made, surely the best option is to consider each member of staff individually and work out who has the skills and knowledge you need to continue as a business?

But then I'm not a consultant, so what do I know...

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Alien

A title is required.

Wait, what?

Did she just say she used to be a dude?

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Black Helicopters

Erm...

So the main argument here is you should get rid of the people who earn the most to do "the same job", who just happen to be men.

No, the people who earn more are likely to be your best people, and this usually means they willingly and deliberately do more than their job description.

This is just bad logic. Although I'm not saying the 23% wages difference is anything other than sexist.

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Stu
Flame

...or...

Fire the women first as they're more likely to be off due to pregnancy!

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jon
Paris Hilton

or...

...sack all english people and hire people from places where the cost of living is less. Surely that's the 'pc/equality' approach? They cost less after all.

If men are paid more, the chances are they are better at their jobs. There's nothing sexist about that, this isn't the 1700s.

Good female employees are as appreciated as male ones in this day in age but they have to work to the same standard. Same as if a male was not working to the standard expected he'd be paid less than an efficient 9-5 person.

If you really think you are as good as a higher paid person on your level then go see your boss and ask for a pay rise, explaining why you think you deserve it. He'll either tell you why you aren't so good as you think and deflate your ego (the u have something to aim for), or start negotiations (or obviously be fobbed off as most bad bosses do).

Paris; because she gets paid far more than her male equivalents.

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Jim
Silver badge

Engineering

Men are gagging for women to come into IT and engineering. But women, on the whole, tend to eschew subjects such as engineering, physics and maths, which rather precludes them from employment in these areas. Is it because these subjects are in some way "manly", or difficult ? Why do women avoid them ?

In my A level physics and maths classes, the sex split was about 50:50. In my engineering degree class a year later, there were about 60 men and 3 women. I guess it is the same everywhere.

Perhaps there really IS a difference between men and women ?

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Go

Seems fair...

Might go some way towards redressing the decades of wage inequity although a better solution might be to pay people equally in the first place.

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Flame

Flamebait -- but she has a point!

Since women have been underpaid relative to men doing the same work, it is only fair that they should benefit from this fact by being kept on while the men are made redundant. This would lower the average cost for the company much faster than laying off women.

In addition, think of the time saved by not having sports pools, sports talk (for the most part), and fart jokes!

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Paris Hilton

Girls are silly.

That is all.

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K
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Joke

Woman in IT

.... that's a joke isn't it? I've recruited for several IT positions within the company I work for, out of several thousand CV's I've only ever received 3 from female applicants.

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Hocum...

this is complete balderdash!

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Stop

Was that "and a man" comment an attempt to piss her off?

Or is she transsexual?

Anyway, this is just sexism through and through. What sort of sad bastard would hire men over women? I mean they look better, smell better and you'd have the fun of watching them show up any condescending "now you have to click the LEFT mouse button TWICE - when it's over the big computer icon- to open up Explorer, love..." types when they just Win-E to do the same job.

Anyway, this is utter sexism. If I said "we should fire all transsexuals first as they're clearly emotionally unstable" it'd be generally false and utter discrimination. Or "fire all black guys as according to Ross Kemp on Gangs they're vicious bastards who'll shoot us all!". Would that go down as well? No.

Yours,

A guy paid less than an equivalent woman.

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Anonymous Coward

Hmm

So instead of a saying 'Women deserve to be paid the same as the men' (absolutely right), she is saying lets get everyone on the same pay grade as the lower paid women.

Doesnt seem like a very none-sexist thing to be saying?

AC - just in case!

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Paris Hilton

WTF?!

That ain't no woman! It's a man, man.

It's one of Dr. Evil's assassins.^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H

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sexual discrimination

is bad in all it's forms, maybe we should just stick with who is best for the job, and then last in first out if that does not settle it.

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Anonymous Coward

All Power Sisters

Yeah, dump the dead wood that is male in IT, those bozos don't know the difference between a call and a jnz. Roll on the good times of high availability, fully clustered, distributed computing that only the ladies know how to do so well.

Does my bum look big in this?

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Flame

Women in IT

I think surely we have got to the point now that the complete and utter lack of women in an IT environment (and the sciences in general) may be a result of their personal choice and preferences, rather than the result of a secret, underhand, campaign to keep them out?

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Or....

How about you keep whoever does the best work and lay off the others?

Too crazy?

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Stop

Hmm

She says that she wouldn't need to put this into place in her company as they are doing well, but surely she wouldn't need to anyway, or does she pay men more than women in her company and therefore support the old boys club herself??????

Would love to see her put such a policy in place.....Those filing a lawsuit please queue here....

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Joke

Ahhh...

.. it's *Positive* discrimination? That's alright then...

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MnM

Women

'We also know from research... that companies with the highest representation of women on top management teams perform more than 30 per cent better financially.'

There there pet.

She's been reading Psychologies magazine again, a publication which once carried the headline 'Think yourself slim'.

Oh, just googled her...

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IT Angle

What if...

...it just so happens that some of these companies pay salary on a sliding scale based on experience and/or performance? Obviously pay discrepancies based purely on gender are wrong; however, if some men are getting paid more than their female colleagues purely because they're doing a better job, wouldn't it often be better to keep them and safeguard the smooth running of IT systems rather than cutting employment costs and hoping the cheaper employee can handle it?

Kate Craig-Wood needs to think before making blanket statements that don't take into consideration all possible scenarios at different companies.

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Coat

Clarification?

"Craig-Wood herself, as a company founder and a woman, would still be safe under a men-out-first regime even if hard times should hit Memset in future. This would not have been true some years ago when Craig-Wood was an executive at Easyspace - AND A MAN."

Craig-Wood was an executive at Easyspace, and was also at the time a man?

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Pirate

Easy to say but hard to prove

Hmm it's good to sexism is alive and well in today’s work place, surely a job advertised at a certain rate is still a job for all regardless of gender, or am I living a blinkered existence in the basement of my IT department?? ...as the jobs advertised where I work are awarded on merit, not gender!!

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Black Helicopters

Possibly

getting rid of the useless members of staff independant of gender & age would be a better idea.

Oh no that unfair on the useless third wouldn't it !

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Stop

How about...

...a picture to accompany the article to show us what a woman in IT looks like? I'm sure Asus had one floating about...

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