back to article Minister trashes ex-spook chief's liberty warning

Tony McNulty, the combative employment minister tipped to replace Jacqui Smith as Home Secretary, has branded a high profile warning by a former MI5 chief that the government risks creating a police state as "abject nonsense". McNulty was responding to criticisms of anti-terror laws by Dame Stella Rimington, head of the domestic …

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Happy

Tom McNutty

Good bye Wacky Jacqui. Hello Tom McNutty.

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If we ignore the lessons of history

We're doomed to make the same mistakes.

This guy clearly isn't paying much attention, and he's the next Home Secretary (every time I say or type that I have the guy from Less Than Perfect shouting "Secra-Tary!" in my head)?

Are Labour deliberately trying to alienate people? Surely a sensible politician would have either kept his trap shut or at least made soothing noises?

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Ed
Thumb Up

Go ahread, please!

I very much want to see them try and develop this database of Internet communications. I think it has the potential to be highly entertaining.

In all likelihood it will be as successful as all other UK.gov IT projects, and even if they do manage to get it off the ground I can guarantee that it will contain absolutely zero useful data from me whatsoever.

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Bronze badge

I am really getting tired of this

"McNulty said her "loose" use of language "plays into the hands of our enemies"."

Speaking freely to a newspaper in a free country is 'playing into the hands of our enemies'. Warning that we are selling our liberties for the illusion of protection 'plays into the hands of our enemeies'. How, exactly? I am sick of this constant push to make us adopt the preemptive cringe: don't do, don't say, don't stand up for anything, lest it 'play into the hands of our enemies'. Let the Powers That Be spell out exactly how being constantly under surveillance and constantly silenced and coerced creates a defeat for 'our enemies'.

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Paris Hilton

Headling news: "Politician Lies"

Who'd have thought it.

Paris because the british people are as clueless as her to let the government get away with what they are doing.

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Black Helicopters

Clone secretary

McNulty said her "loose" use of language "plays into the hands of our enemies".

And which enemies would that be, hmm?

The army of straw men the government and the media have so successfully created?

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Anonymous Coward

Terrorism?

Terrorism could be defined as "attempting to control policical decision making and public opinion by the threat of violence". In which case constantly telling us that we must accept new laws and police powers in order to combat terrorism surely qualifies itself as terrorism.

Oh, but hang on. Bush declared war on international terrorism, so anything our government do to us is fine, not being international.

Ho hum.

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Anonymous Coward

o look

O look another lying fascist to pander to the media elite.

Labour has alot of them don't they.

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Black Helicopters

War on terrorism?

First of all, that was a stock response from a parasite, so we cannot expect anything better. Secondly, since war and terrorism are the same thing, I'm wondering what these parasites and their collaborators are hoping to achieve by increasing the amount of violence, anger, and fear in the world. Couldn't be a police state, right?

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corrected for you

'Tony McNulty, the combative employment minister tipped to replace Jacqui Smith as Home Secretary, has branded a high profile warning by a former MI5 chief that the government risks creating a police state as "abject nonsense", *then used the Terrorism Act to condemn her actions as incitement to riot, inciting hatred to have her detailed indefinately*'

IF THE FORMER HEAD OF THE SPIES SAYS WE ARE SCREWED WE SHOULD LISTEN

(Unless they are trying to flog a book)

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Alert

typical New Labour bo****ks

It seems like any time somebody with actual real experience of anything says anything it's get ignored or ridiculed by them, whether it be to do with policing, terrorism, drugs, etc. All the more so if the person was actually employed to give them advice on the subject in the first place.

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joys of conspiracies

"Man tipped to replace Jacqui calls 'abject nonsense' on Stella" Well he's not going to say 'yeah she's right, screw you all you're totally f****d' is he, he's be out of the running quicker than a sneeze

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Stop

Can someone please explain

how ex-teachers are qualified to look after the security of the UK?

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Unhappy

What?!

Is he really being tipped to be the new Home Secretary, the blokes clueless! I can't stand watching him on Question Time, he seems to be totally devoid of independent thought, and all he can do is parrot the party line. I can't think of anyone in the government more annoying or useless, and that's saying something!

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Who do we listen to on this issue?

The former head of one of the intelligence services or a career politician?

Decisions, decisions...

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Anonymous Coward

Always be vigilant

The Fifth column, I mean Alqaeda terrorists are out to get you!

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Thumb Down

Fire / frying pan senario

This isn't fair. I hate Cameron's mob too.

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Rimington just repeats security expert opinion

The _only_ good new security measure after 9/11 was stronger, locked cockpit doors. Everything else is just security theatre. All the money wasted on catching criminal tourists with more than the allowed amount of shampoo could be spent on actually tracking down and catching some terrorists.

Instead of ID cards we could save the car industry...

Instead of NHS IT projects we could have more doctors and nurses...

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McNulty

Is one of the most repellent politicians out there right now. He has one style - bullying and hectoring. Watch him on Newsnight or Question Time, he rants when he's spoken to and sits there muttering and interrupting other contributors.

And his huge experience of security, let's see - degree in politics, postgrad degree in politics, then went on to be a councillor, then an MP.

He was a nasty piece of shit at the Home Office, he is a nasty piece of shit in his current role and he will continue to be one into the future.

Currently sitting on a 4,000 odd majority, so if there is any justice in the World we'll soon be seeing the back of him.

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Happy

We need a...

... V for Vendetta icon on the Reg. Ah, I just said that on the "bad pics" article - wonder if this comment will get added, the other hasn't (so far).

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Black Helicopters

What he said and what he really means

"Wrong to suggest that had all the things we planned been passed we'd have been a police state..." We'd be a police state if only half the things had passed...

"wrong to suggest we have somehow stumbled towards a police state..." We've never stumbled. It's closer to a gallop really...

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Black Helicopters

abject nonsense

If a government minister says that something is abject nonsense my brain translates this into a fact, the gospel, true.

I wonder if any ministers have watched V for Vendetta, a really crap film but I'm sure Gordon, Jaquie etc would love to have the rule of law shown on this film.

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Alert

Trust

Isn't it sad that when the ex-chief of one of our security foces raised her concerns, the government just brush them off as though they didn't exist? I think that says it all.

We've just found ourselves in the position where even the secret police are calling for less powers and don't seem to trust the direction their fascist uber-meisters are taking. Scared yet?

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Paris Hilton

dumb and dumber

In the blue corner: Stella Rimington, ex-Head of MI5, with around 30 years of experience in the relevant sector

In the red corner: Tony McNulty, MP and minor minister in the Department of Work and Pensions with degrees in policitcal science and political theory

Go figure

Paris, 'cos I'm in despair, and you can spell 'Paris' with some of the letters in 'despair'

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Anonymous Coward

That sounds like Bush

Bush: "That kind of question is what I'm talking about, giving comfort to our enemies abroad by liberal attacks such as yours on the president and his policies. Let's move on."

McNulty: "Even to use such language so loosely plays in to the hands of our enemies."

http://www.apj.us/20060207Weiner.html

Isn't it funny, the whole of Britain is against them, they can't trust Parliament, so they bypass it, they can't trust the judges, so they've moved adhoc penalties down to the police, EU is against them so they shut the border. Now they want the power to grab any data and make any law without Parliament. An unelected, unpopular leader with nearly 3/4 of the people against him, saying that we are the problem for questioning his and his ministers choices.

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Surprisingly enough he's wrong

When McNutty says

" ... Wrong to suggest that had all the things we planned been passed we'd have been a police state, and wrong to suggest we have somehow stumbled towards a police state."

he's entirely wrong. We haven't stumbled towards it at all. We've been sprinting towards it at breakneck speed.

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Stop

Ignore him

He will be unemployed after the next election...

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Unhappy

ok Now what?

Obviously this guy is more of the same.

However the real questions is what do WE/YOU do now?

or do we just leave quietly hand passport at gate - give em two fingers and hope some other country offers anyone dissatisfied a new home? Seriously does it come to this? or is it time to make a stand?

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Go

Screwed

You guys are screwed and the US isn't far behind.. The root of the problem isn't the politicians, but the public apathy that allows these guys to get elected in the first place. If most people genuinely cared about their privacy, then these guys wouldn't be able to get elected. Politicians seek power; it's what they do for a living. It's up to the people to put limits on them and stop them. The "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about" mentality is a cliche and a joke on the internet but the fact of the matter is that it's a commonly held conception amongst the general public. If you're a citizen who speaks out against the government's invasion of privacy you're a terrorist/pedo/criminal. If you're a politician who speaks out against it you support terrorism/pedophilia/criminality.

I think the best thing we can do is promote our view-point to the general population. It's not enough to publish a blog or blab about it online as most netizens already have a strong aversion to government intrusion and government control in general. We need to write newsletters, books, and editorials. More importantly, we need to take advantage of mass media if we really want to reach the masses. We need to take advantage of television, radio, music, billboards, and advertisements.

This is not a battle that's going to be won by e-mailing your representatives. It's going to take a grassroots effort and a significant investment in time and money. We need to start *now*.

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Silver badge
Paris Hilton

History lesson...

In the words of the esteemed Ms Rice-Davis (Google it, youngsters) "He would say that, wouldn't he?"

Paris: Following on from Mandy, but not as honest...

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3x2

Sooo... just to be clear here ..

.. a respected member of the intelligence community suggests that our Government is using scare tactics to introduce police state legislation and curtail civil liberties. Ministers counter with

<...> her "loose" use of language "plays into the hands of our enemies". <...>

... and in defence of a very expensive program of dubious practical value and which would have Stalin blushing another comments ..

<...> blocking the plans on civil liberties grounds would grant terrorists "a licence to kill".<...>

They just don't see the irony

Nuremberg Rally anyone?

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Flame

Bring down the Government

I don't wanna sound like an anarchist, but it really is time the government was pulled down. Brown and Labour have shafted us for too long now. Politics in Britain is hitting a new low and we are allowing the loonies to run the asylum.

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@James 13:50 GMT

I can - Hazel Blears. More annoying, more useless and even more of a party line puppet.

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Anonymous Coward

Apartheid-era South Africa calls!

I assume it is just a coincidence that the British government has been passing (or trying) to pass laws that were used to stifle dissent in apartheid-era SA (notably detention without trial). They certainly appear to be quacking like a police state.

Without the legal underpinnings, the UK cannot become a police state - but once the laws are in place, the transition is easy because the authorities only need to start using powers they already have.

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Insanity

"plays into the hands of our enemies" at this stage the only enemies the UK has are people who are being militarily assaulted by the UK. Try not killing a load of muslims and see how that works out, better yet spend the same amount of money it costs to kill them on building them schools and hospitals and see how that goes.

That is of course unless the enemies can be defined as sections of the UK populace in which case the police state approach which is being taken is probably appropriate. I wonder what groups are predicted to need controlling according to the "advanced computer model" they're doubtless using.

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Our Enemies??

McCarthy-ism anyone? I'm amazed just how potty Britain has gone since I left but, looking at it; I think the only place you could be safe these days is in a cabin in some isolated woods or in a cave underground!

I would like these power-crazed politicos to tell people who their enemies are though, just in case they pass one on the street or something?

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Joke

Letter to the PM...

Dear New Labour,

Please FOAD.

Sincerly,

The British Public.

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b
Flame

Tony "day in day out" McNulty

is an arse.

"Speaking freely to a newspaper in a free country is 'playing into the hands of our enemies'. "

It's also an example of the sort of scaremongering that Rimmington was talking about...

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Unhappy

Bad to worse, what to do?

I think there's a growing consensus that something isn't right with our government, the growing nanny state, the aiming everything at the lowest common denominator and removing responsibility for ourselves.

I agree with the coward above, what do we do? We're a terrible nation for being apathetic, surely something so fundamental is worth doing something about. I really don't want to have to move to NZ but every year it gets more tempting.

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Anonymous Coward

@ James

"I can't think of anyone in the government more annoying or useless, and that's saying something!"

Apart from Jacqui Smith herself, presumably?

Although from reading this article, he sounds like a male version of the same...

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"our enemies"

"McNulty said her "loose" use of language "plays into the hands of our enemies"."

This makes perfect sense when you remember that Labour consider the public their enemy. Saddam and bin Laden were never going to destroy the Labour government, but an informed public may well string up the lot of them.

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Black Helicopters

saw him on question time

...telling someone out of work from a car factory in birmingham that it was ok that her and her husband couldn't find work because Labour has created "Job Centre Plus", which is yet another half arsed attempt to fiddle with the employment stats.

It was very rewarding to hear this woman tell him just how useless the job centre had been and that she was getting off her backside and finding what little work she could, in spite of nu labour's efforts not because of them.

This man is more of a waste of space that wacki jaqui, bet she had a good toke on a spliff before suggesting him as her replacement, while laughing her arse.

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Paris Hilton

another twunt on a power trip to be home sec!

Mcnutty as home secretary really is letting the monkey fly the aeroplane.

And we thought Wacqui was bad!

After all, someone like Rimmington, an acknowledged expert should bow to the superior powers and experience of some twunt like McNutty, after all, his wealth of experience in counter terrorism could be inscribed on a small grain of rice.

Paris, shes not been quite as heavily screwed as the british public, but its close!

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Paris Hilton

help me out

I'm not a Brit but I'm sure "our enemies" are the same. I just got a little confused about whom we now actually consider "the enemy".

Oh, and I second the V for Vendetta icon request.

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Jobs Halo

This Labour Government has got to

rank as the biggest bunch of self serving (i.e. serving themselves expenses from taxpayers money) arseholes that we have EVER had the displeasure to have in power. I do hope they all FOAD in 2010.

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Coat

If you want to talk about V for Vendetta...

"And its no good blaming the drop in work standards on and management either... though to be sure, the management is very bad. In fact, let us not mince words... The Management is terrible! We've had a string of embezzelers, frauds, liars and lunatics making a string of catastrophic decisions. This is plain fact. But who elected them? It was you! You who elected these people! You who gave them the power to make your decisions for you! While I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making the same lethal errors century after century seems to me nothing short of deliberate. You have encouraged these malicious incompetents, who have made your working life a shambles. You have accepted without question their senseless orders. You have allowed them to fill your workspace with dangerous and unproven machines. You could have stopped them. All you had to say was "No". You have no spine. You have no pride. You are no longer an asset to the company."

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Silver badge

Executive Action and NEUKlearer HyperRadioProActivity

"I think the best thing we can do is promote our view-point to the general population. It's not enough to publish a blog or blab about it online as most netizens already have a strong aversion to government intrusion and government control in general. We need to write newsletters, books, and editorials. More importantly, we need to take advantage of mass media if we really want to reach the masses. We need to take advantage of television, radio, music, billboards, and advertisements." ......."Screwed"... By Anonymous Coward Posted Wednesday 18th February 2009 14:41 GMT

AC,

Not all of us are averse to telling governments where they can go .... although not necessarily to get screwed. Some things would be just too distasteful. The following is sitting in front of A Darling and others, even as we speak/you read this.

And re "This is not a battle that's going to be won by e-mailing your representatives. It's going to take a grassroots effort and a significant investment in time and money. We need to start *now*." ........ I couldn't agree more.

For the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, so that he cannot be said to be ignorant of a Virtual Program for Beta Governance, which is hereby asking for National Support/Particular and Peculiar Specific Funding for a Cloud Initiative/CyberSpace Project in the better Global Management of Perception and Resources, and which can be effortlessly and freely explored [and also interacted with] here ..... C42 Quantum Control Systems*

And the following is freely, universally available online and is just a very small part of a much Bigger Picture, Great Game dDeveloped for Future Generation Play.

And please, do not do yourself a grave dis-service by even thinking that you are not being provided/confronted with a very sophisticated ProgramMIng, which can be easily tailored to Virtually Any Need and Feed.

91. At 1:34pm on 18 Feb 2009, amanfromMars wrote:

"There should be plenty for us to discuss on my return, next week. "

Hi, Robert, Enjoy the break while/if you can for there is always a lot to discuss when stage-managing perceptions and uncovering deep deceptions

As the following is posted to the parties listed at the end [cc], which you can see also stars your good self, [and this quite excellent transparent Internet blog is far better than any email, which can be conveniently/inconveniently ignored or dismissed or as is maybe the case in Government, vetted by a minion for subjective decision for the addressed's attention] and after having watched the PM doing his Mr Bean/Has Been routine at todays press conference, announcing nothing worthy of note and therefore no real change to an easily corruptible Financial/Money/Fiscal/Control System, [call it what you will], perhaps this could be pursued, looking for the flaw, which could then be addressed to remove it.

Quite patently obviously are the present "cosy arrangements"/Ponzi scams, Unfit for Future Purpose and if the Government cannot think to change things fundamentally, for what can only be a Lack of Intelligence and Initiative or Coersion to maintain the Status Quo hierarchy , then it will be provided to them for them to comment on [or to ignore, should that be their choice] However, it will be universally known that other viable options and alternatives to stop Collapse have been submitted for Systems BetaTesting and Trial Runs.

"

Adjusting the System to Eliminate Parasitic Destructive Inflation?

By amanfromMars

Posted Wednesday 18th February 2009 07:28 GMT

"The Story Has Vanished From The BBC ... And people think the BBC is a free, fair and independent news service??" ......By RotaCyclic Posted Tuesday 17th February 2009 17:05 GMT

Others would more reasonably suggest it is a Shadow of its Gay Former Self and a Proxy Tool Failing Governments with its Mandates and Foreign Programs. But then that is directly attributable to Spineless Direction from the Top of the Board Room Tree and its Bankrupt of Novel and innovative Intellectual Property, Creativity Department.

"There is good news and bad news. The good news is that the "credit crunch"/slump is not terminal, and we will survive it, because... The bad news is that there will be a next "credit crunch"/slump, and it will be terminal, altho when it will occur is difficult to predict. However, we have seen enough of how the World is Being $aved today to be confident in this." ... By Luther Blissett Posted Tuesday 17th February 2009 17:14 GMT.

I cannot fault the logic but would suggest that the bad news is current and therefore one does not need to wait on prediction.

To all who would either post here on El Reg or just spend years just reading [yes, there are those too, apparently, who have no urge nor strong enough or sure enough opinions to share publicly for peer review ] now would be the perfect time to present to Government any viable sustainable mega-spending plans for any Public Service Initiative Projects which you might have, as Quantitive Easing/the Printing and Supply of Currency to Generate Economies and Industry gets under Way. Cutting out the Middleman/the Banks will also ensure that their Costs do not Burden one with unnecessary Taxation and Wealth Payment on a Service not required.

It is surely quite enough for Currency Spend to Generate Industry and Economies, without the Banking Sector, expecting the Added and Unfunded Service of Interest Charged on a Principal Currency Spend and the Return of the Capital Spent from the Principal, whose Spend is Generating Industry/Work/Economies.......... for that would require one to be able to Invent and Print Money from Nothing or to ask Currency Suppliers for more than twice what one would Really need, in Order to Entertain a Sector which is making Nothing but merely employing members of the Population with either limited or undereducated skillsets.

However, if that be necessarily so by Default Design of the System, then one should make the necessary adjustments to Currency Requirements made to Government and make them aware of the Inflated Provision/Excessive Third Party Borrowing Requirement. It does not though do the Banking Sector any favours, whenever their business Model is Based upon the SurReal Supply of Nothing, and yet for which they would think to be Paid with such Extreme Supplies of Currency.

cc Vince Cable/Robert Peston/Mervyn King/Alistair Darling/UK PLC.

http://theregister.co.uk/2009/02/17/gov_terror_rubbish/comments "

The System is broken like Humpty Dumpty and it is an insult to us all, from those who should know better, to think that things will be fixed without a Completely New Currency Supply System rather than a Currency Control System, which relies on arbitrary subjective Third party decision making for Suitable Supply of Wealth for Spending ..... and that can be easily Refined for Finer Mentored and Monitored Constructive Performance Tuning with Currency Supply being by Electronic Credit Transfers thus to save on the Wear and Tear and Pitfalls of Cash.

It is not rocket science, is it.

"Money is like water, block its flow and it will stagnate." .... His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2009/02/a_brief_escape.html#comment91

Please be advised that NEUKlearer HyperRadioProActivity is AIdDutch Initiative in Transparent Virtual Communication and is not at all well suited to Concealment at any Stage or on any Stage.

Sincerely,

Graham [amfM]

[* which of course is a hyperlink in the original]

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McNultyism - the new McCarthyism ?

It sounds to me as though she should be locked up or deported

in line with the new Government approach to 'anti-democratic'

views revealed on Panorama.

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irony meters

<...> her "loose" use of language "plays into the hands of our enemies". <...>

<...> blocking the plans on civil liberties grounds would grant terrorists "a licence to kill".<...>

and all the irony meters in the room exploded

I mean when I read those comments I just thought "dose this guy know what i fool he sounds?"

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Anonymous Coward

This reminds me of the same thing

Here's Olbermann discussing the scaremongering of Bush which sounds remarkably familiar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEcBjpsP1bU

Bush "the lives of countless Americans depend on our ability to monitor terrorist communications..."

He goes onto to quote security professionals like Richard Clark calling Bush a liar for pretending he needs the law. Sort of like Stella Rimington criticizing Brown.

Doesn't it all seem quite deja-vu.

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