Llanelli MP Nia Griffiths has called for the national identity card to include Welsh text. New technologies provide many ways to make services bilingual, said the Labour MP on 3 February 2009, and using Welsh on identity cards would send a clear message that the language has equal validity with English. A supporter of identity …
They already have the Welsh text
"Sorry, I'm out of the office"
Get to the back of the queue...
I asked for Klingon before you...
Why are they planning on having French on a UK card? and not, for instance, Spanish, German or American English.
And why stop at Welsh? Why not Irish, Gaelic, Manx, Scots, Cornish, Norn, Glaswegian etc etc etc
I was going to post a pithy comment about how Welsh doesn't have equal validity with English (and I'm a Welshman and proud!)
Then I saw this:
"The government's plan is for the cards to contain only English and French, however."
If we're having French on the cards, I damn well want Welsh on it. Take the English (or the French, preferably!) off it if needs be. It's not as if we're going to wonder what bits of it say.
My driving licence is bilingual. My ID card (that I'm not going to get, but that's a different rant) should be too. And with British languages, not foreign, thanks.
Well since they're going to be useless anyway
Let's put some Gaelic on them as well.
And just for the sake of total inclusiveness - can I ask for a line or two of Icelandic (and a handy pronunciation guide)? No particular reason, I just like all the extra letters and exciting accents.
The ID card may as well be written it Welsh. It makes no bloody sense anyway!
What about Cornish, Scots Gaelic, Erse, Chinese, and Polish?
Subject says all.
So now we just need campaigns for the cards to have Cornish, Scots Gaelic, Irish and Ulster Scots too and they might just have to forget the whole thing. Or make them A3.
If they don't put Welsh on the cards...
How many people will suddenly *only* speak Welsh, no matter where in the UK they live?
Seriously, how many people in the UK speak Welsh but not English? I can't imagine the number is that high.
(but it's another obstacle towards the ID Card. That has to be A Good Thing, regardless of the intention....)
"the language has equal validity with English" ??
If the ID card gets Welsh language on it then we should also include Gaelic. While we're at it, let's make ID cards A4 in size so that we can include wording for every language used by British citizens.
Someone thwack the bint with a large stick until she realises some sense. I'm Scottish and proud of it - I love my language just as she appears to love hers. Regardless of national pride, including just one addiitional language on ID cards is asking for trouble.
Of course it's straightforward: forget about identity cards.
I'm sure I hadn't heard it was going to have French text up to now.
Paris, well I'm sure you could make your own joke...
The Welsh, living in GB, have a better case for their language - we probably have more Poles than French if you want to be friendly to minorities or foreigners.
Of course Welsh doesn't have equal validity, especially not outside Wales. I don't want that on any card of mine, ID or otherwise. What a waste of space. I'm not keen on the French, but at least more than 10 people speak that
"...using Welsh on identity cards would send a clear message that the language has equal validity with English. "
Rather funny that..surely that's not the case!? What a waste of extra ink! I suppose we should stick Gaelic as well, as well as all of the other UK national languages (if there are any others, that is) ?
More of this!
Before long we'll need to have a Gaelic version as well- and one in Cornish. By the time they've finished it'll be the size of a small paperback book. I'd also suggest Huttese or a similar language as Jedi is one of the larger religions in this country.
Sod the Frogs, just go for an English-only version. Welsh has an equal validity to English, fair enough. And I understand some welsh speakers don't speak english. But surely both of them could learn? I mean it IS the official language of the UK and the widest-spoken language in the world.
Saying that, I would - if they had the facility to do this- accept a choice of langauges being available when you get the card. English as a set one, French as another set one as its also pretty widely spoken.
Choice of third- maybe Spanish or something similar if you've got family there- or portugal/brazil/mexico/etc. Or Welsh if you're Welsh. Huttese if you're Jedi.
Why not Cornish or phonetic Geordie?
Wales isn't even a country (it's a Principality before anyone queries it), so why should it get any special treatment? I've lived there and it's mainly a depressing place. I hope they don't want the ID cards to be the size of credit cards, as there's only so much readable text you can fit in a small area (lets wait for the disability PC bunch to say that all text must be at least size 16 font for the visually impared). Also, if the wording it's going to truely represent the Welsh language, the card should be covered in phlegm!
Currently sitting back and waiting for my house to be fire bombed!
"....using Welsh on identity cards would send a clear message that the language has equal validity with English..."
Well it might be clear to the Welsh.
What about Gallic for the Scots, ...
Kernewek for the Cornish or even Scouse ?
Do the Welsh even want ID cards? We certainly don't. Even if they do, how big would they like these cards to be? They will already contain English and French. Add Welsh and suddenly the scots insist on Gaelic, the large chinese population insist on Chinese to be added, with the large asian population why not Urdu and Punjabi, why not any of the hundreds of African languages?
Pretty soon the 'card' is as large as a broadsheet newspaper with the same info repeated over and over again. If it was stored digitally instead of being printed on it then you could have every language in the world, but any official who wanted to see your card would have to ensure they had the correct reading equipment on them or else it is rendered useless at ID'ing anyone.
Re: Not straightforward?
Yes. We should make many, many arcane demands for ID cards and insist we won't accept them unless they are made suitable for the Welsh, the colour-blind and the synaesthetic alike. Maybe they'll eventually scrap them on the basis that they can't afford that much card.
Does anyone speak Welsh.....
...who does not also speak English?
Although I have no proof of knowledge on the subject, I am willing to bet that everybody who speaks Welsh also speaks English, making Welsh one big waste of money.
Have they really thought this whole ID card thing through?
As if the IT aspects of the ID card plan weren't already a lot of badly thought out shite. They haven't thought any of it through at all, have they?
French is a language on the card? How strange. Maybe we're going to hire a lot of French police to help run the scheme.
I'd like to be the first to welcome our new garlic fixated overlords.
Chippy %$£%£"$% welsh again....
Just a couple of points :
Wales is no more a country that Yorkshire.
Wales can no more afford to apply its regional accent on the rest of the country than can Norfolk.
The Welsh assembly is just a county council and shoud not be getting ideas above its station.
Three pretty sounds reaspons for telling them to %$"%£"$%^! off.
Would anyone notice?
With all those L's, most people would mistake it for a bar code anyway.
@ Sarah Bee
'...made suitable for the Welsh, the colour-blind and the synaesthetic alike.'
That's a BRILLIANT idea - I want my ID card to sound like banana flavour. And I won't be happy if it's not.
Fine and well to have Welsh on the cards...
But why French??
Anybody here catch that cell-shaded CGI spiderman cartoon on some welsh TV channel I get on Sky (most likely freeview too). They re-dubbed it in Welsh.
That language is just downright nuts, its like speaking Hobbit-ese!
*Await Flames of Hell* Bring it on! ;-)
I want speaking cards for the blind, if they can't do that then they need to scrap them.
I'm from lancashire...
So I want mine written in lancashire speak!
A moron on so many levels
Wants ID cards and wants them to have welsh - sheesh
I would put serious money on it that there are more British citizens speaking Urdu as their first language than Welsh - should we put that on as well?
As for French - why?
If it needs to be multilingual then it should be in Spanish not French. The French are always just desperate to persuade someone to speak it.
Either way I don't much care what goes on it - I have no intention of carrying one whatever language it's in.
C^u nenie tie-c^i parolas Esperanton?
Re: "Wales is no more a country that Yorkshire."
True, everyone knows Yorkshire is a republic.
You're missing the point
The debate has shifted from "No ID cards" to "Welsh/No Welsh on ID cards".
Discard all human readable text. Just stick on a photo, a chip, and a nice large 2D barcode :)
The computers at places the card is needed should be able to translate it into whatever language the operator uses.
Or, if you must have human readable text, name & relevant numbers / dates.
Wherever the dates are placed on the card, most people should be able to work out the earliest of the three is the holder's DOB, the latest date the "Valid to" date, and the one in between the "Valid from" date.
Alternatively, use pictograms for labels - that'll make 'em readable by those with learning difficulties.
And if you want to increase popularity, use some of the space saved to allow the holder to specify an addition graphic from a range, e.g. a flag of the bit of the world they identify with most. After all, if credit card companies think giving the user a choice of 8 different card designs will encourage them to take up the offer of their brand's card, surely the government could use the same principle for ID cards...
Alternatively, make them round, shiny and black/white so they have street cred (like practically anything from Apple...)
Or even make the ID card number part of the cryptographic key for DRM / WGA, so you can't buy any digital music / M$ products without one...
Great ID ms Bee
Make it include so much data it ant be rolled out till 2030 The make data base s damn huge the hard drive industry gets a woody. In the end the card woll weigh 5 pounds and 8.5x11 inches.
a carrot on so many levels?
The only language we need...
...is "F*ck wacky Jacqui" in large red letters.
Not that it really matters, the microwave will render it inoperative immediately irrepsective of whatever crap they put on it.
...its one of the "official" EU languages.
EU missives and documents are always produced in both English and French.
French has long been considered the "language of Diplomacy" (No I don't get it either but hey ho) which is why your current passport has French on it.
Anywho.... re welsh on an ID card, they can stick what they like on it as far as I'm concerned cos I ain't having one of the pesky ice scrapers....
"Yes. We should make many, many arcane demands for ID cards and insist we won't accept them unless they are made suitable for the Welsh, the colour-blind and the synaesthetic alike. Maybe they'll eventually scrap them on the basis that they can't afford that much card."
Aha, loathe as I am to nit-pick, your error there is that THEY will be paying for the card. Of course, WE will be paying for it. And axiomatic in Government is that the public's pockets are bottomless and can be picked with impunity. So yes, we'll get A2-sized cards with Welsh, Urdu, Kad'k and probably even Klingon on them.. but will be voluntarily compulsorily charged a privacy-enhancing £500 each for them. It's for your own good, Citizens!
(can we have a "down with the government" icon, please?)
Surely the choice of languages used on the card is nothing to do with what the individual prefers, but decided by the the requirements of those in authority that are going to need to access it? English and French, because the vast majority of European authorities will speak one or the other.
Why on earth would an identity card need to be a source of national pride and personal self-expression?
How thin could they make a functioning, credit-card sized, e-ink-style display?
Since they're already talking about having biometrics on a chip on the card, they could probably code in any number of languages for the small amount of text that they'd need for the "Name:", "DOB:", etc. descriptor fields and make the language displayed user-selectable.
...Plus, since the display manufacturers would clearly have to ramp up production to meet the eager public's insatiable demand (Excuse me while I remove my tongue from my cheek...!) for these truly "smart" cards , it should bring their price down -- making e-book readers, sub-notebook-sized e-notebooks, e-journals, and e-sketchbooks mass-market commodity items!
...Well... unless you don't want national ID cards, of course. Then, you're just screwed.
Welsh, and Russian, and Japanese, and Gailic, before they should be allowed to send them out.
It's only fair?!
I just had a funny thought that by the time all the languages are on there the "ID Card" becomes a huge parchment that takes a half hour to unfold for the filth and needs to be carried in a rucksack.
Welsh - A dead language spoken only in Welsh schools, local government offices and the more remote regions of Patagonia. (Speaking AS a Welshman!)
ID Cards - An idea that needs to be dead real soon now.
How about this instead
Instead of this, how about the 20 people in Wales who can only speak Welsh actually get off their arses and learn the fucking national language.
The immediate advantage of this is that those people will suddenly be able to watch something other than S4C of an evening.
The longer-term advantage is that the Welsh National Assembly can save millions of pounds in completely wasted money every year translating every single thing into a language that has no more modern validity than Latin.
the point may have been made, i don't care to read all the comments, but
AMERICAN ENGLISH IS A BASTARDIZATION NOT A LANGUAGE
Instead of an ID card with foreign languages on it...
I would like chips for tea.
The cards could be issued with any language on them. Let people request what they want at the time of issue/application.
But, if you are stopped by the police, customs, immigration, mothers against normal people activists, RSPCA, etc., your interview must be conducted in the language that the card is printed in. If this means that the card holder has to wait hours and hours while an interpreter is found, so be it.
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