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back to article Israel hacks Arab TV station

Israeli military forces have reportedly hacked into a Hamas-run TV station to broadcast propaganda. The hijack of the Al-Aqsa television station last weekend represents the latest phase in a war in cyberspace that has accompanied the ongoing conflict in Gaza. Al-Aqsa is known for featuring allegedly antisemitic childrens' …

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Anonymous Coward

Olmert should be tried for war crimes

When insurgents kill hundreds of Iraqi policemen with bombs, it's terrorism, murder and rightly so.

When Israel kills hundreds of Gaza policemen with bombs, it's the same. No different. It's targetting civilians and it's a war crime. We should make sure Olmert and his generals are prosecuted for war crimes at the Hague.

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Gold badge

Re: war crimes.

Well fuck me! You are a genius and no mistake. Who'd have thought that solving all the problems in the Middle East could be so simple? All those years and the answer was right in front of us all the time!

PS: While you're on a roll, any suggestions on what a "dripping sarcasm" icon should look like?

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why not...

I used to have sympathy for Israel but the last ten years or so escalating oppression of Palestine makes me sick. US support, media and humantiarian-aid blockaded - you don't tend to see any of that in a just action.

Israel, you suck ass.

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Anonymity is the way to go, it seems

Well, Mr Coward (1), you show your utter lack of understanding of what a Hamas-style policeman is with that statement! they are about as civillian as Gerry Adams was in his (alleged) IRA days.

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RE:Olmert should be tried for war crimes

I sugest you go and look at the excelent artical on the BBC looking at the legality of the situation. Basicly the Hamas attacks are clearly war crimes, but the attacks against them are a much more gray area. They are not 100% right, but the situation is far more complex that you seem to think.

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@ ac

and the same for hamas too then i guess? remember hamass has been behind many murders too.

i just find that that part of the world really sums up religion. lots of pig-headed idiots fighting over which imaginary deity is the best.

of course there is more to it than that but you get the point. i do find it amusing tho all this shit about the arabs being so badly treated by everyone yet it was the arab nations that first invaded europe, took slaves and generally behaved very badly. interesting that they forget about all that eh?

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Stop

Dear AC

When cities in Israel are being attacked for the last 8 years and the world doesn't say a single word, what do you call it?

There's time for peace, time for war. We will not tolerate this kind of attacks from the Hamas, no matter what the world thinks of us. Please check your facts: Where in the world do u see an army which calls the land lord to tell them to evacuate or he'll die prior attacking the building which hide bombs?

We tried *everything* - agreements with the Hamas (which they didn't honour), asking Egypt for assistance in stopping smuggling bombs, asking the UN and other countries. Nothing helped. It's time we take it to our on hands, whatever it will cost.

Try to imaging your neighborhood being bombed by extremists and no one stops them. Do you still feel the same? or you're just being a hypocrite?

As for killing "hundreds of Gaza Policemen", please check your facts: 19 of them died. Not hundreds.

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Anonymous Coward

@Re: war crimes.

"Well fuck me! You are a genius and no mistake. Who'd have thought that solving all the problems in the Middle East could be so simple? All those years and the answer was right in front of us all the time!"

You haven't disputed a single claim to my basis for prosecuting Olmert for war crimes. But then nothing is really in dispute here, sooner or later he'll visit Europe and we should arrest him and put him on trial.

As to whether it would fix all the Middle Easts problems, that's not a requirement for prosecuting war crimes.

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Black Helicopters

I guessed allowing comments to this story would be a mistake

Should have blocked comments for this one methinks.

In the meantime, a question.

Was this a real hack, or was it simply broadcasting a signal from another transmitter with greater power? (or possibly knocking out the original transmitter).

Jolyon

(never been a more appropriate time to use the watch out for helicopters symbol)

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IT Angle

Where were anonymous coward's comments ...?

...when Hamas rained around 6000 rockets onto the Israeli population (exclusively civilian) over the last few years?

Or don't Israeli citizens count?

There are faults on both sides, but I'm sure your mother told you what would happen if you play with fire. Even the Egyptian foreign minister warned Hamas to stop their missile attacks, some time back.

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Anonymous Coward

@TeeCee

Your comment seems to be saying that criminals should be accountable only if punishment will reverse the damage of the crime (or solve some other pre-existing problem). That's a big statement, and will need more than a sarcasm icon to make it sound reasonable. If you meant that the action so far has been justified and proportionate (i.e. not criminal) then say so.

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TeeCee...

If you have to TELL US it's sarcasm, you've failed. Us ordinary Joes can do little about Israel other than boycott their fruit, veg and CPUs. I'm doing my bit and I'd encourage others to do likewise.

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Inappropriate

So instead of tuning in to the usual cartoon, Palestinian children were presented with politicians being shot?

Lovely. I'm sure that'll win hearts and minds.

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Re: Re: war crimes.

It might be obvious to you, and many other people, but religion is always afforded more respect than it desrves, even more so when it's the excuse for killing people.

The AC has made more of a contribution than you TeeCee, what have you added? not very constructive are you?

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(Written by Reg staff)

Re: I guessed allowing comments to this story would be a mistake

Oh no. We're hoping that a solution to the situation in the Middle East may at last be reached through this thread.

Besides, if you lot fight it out amongst yourselves, the casualties and international fallout should be minimal.

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Anonymous Coward

@AC 13:29

Here's a thought, if all the Hamas scumbags weren't hiding behind human shields then maybe the IDF wouldn't be hitting civilians? Mind you, be a short war then.

You should petition the Hague to retroactively declare Churchill a war criminal whilst you're in a litigious mood, I'm sure the unquiet ghosts of Dresden would thank you for it.

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Anonymous Coward

Please remember....

...that Israel was born from a terrorist group, much like Hamas or the IRA. Irgun, the organisation murdered many British solders in the King David hotel bombing for example.

This is not to condone Hamas and their rockets, but to remind that Israel is not from perfect stock themselves.

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Anonymous Coward

@"where were the AC's Comments" posted by AC

"...when Hamas rained around 6000 rockets onto the Israeli population (exclusively civilian) over the last few years?

Or don't Israeli citizens count?"

Yes apparently 20 Israeli lives count the same as about 600 Palestinian lives. That's the number of Israelis killed by those rocket attacks vs the number of Palestinians killed in JUST the latest incursion. See the problem?

If not you're part of it.

Enjoy

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Stop

Perspective

While I'm all for Israel protecting itself this should still be seen in perspective.

The Palestinians are not the ones blockading ports and borders, preventing food and medicine being distributed. The Palestinians are not the ones trying to claim land as theirs, kicking out the rightful owners and then building huge walls that prevent the rightful owners from working the farms that they've owned for generations. israel is an occupying force and as such must abide by the Geneva Convention.

And a final piece of perspective:

Imagine it's 1989. The news story reads.

"Britain is now in day 10 of it's offensive against the IRA in Belfast. After pounding Catholic areas of Belfast for the last week and a half with artillery, tank and missile strikes a massive ground force has now entered Belfast with the aim of crushing the IRA. Civilian casualties are running high with several hundred Catholics dead from the British bombardment. Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams is reported dead, killed by a missile strike that also destroyed the surrounding houses in the street he was hiding in. His entire family has also been killed in the same strike."

Do you think the USA would have allowed the UK to get away with that? Of course not. Do you think we'd have peace in Northern Ireland today if we'd reacted that way? Of course not.

The simple facts are this, Israel is not interested in peace, it just wants to keep the Palestinians living in fear. Until Israel seriously wants peace there can never be peace. These actions will simply keep generating more terrorists. Israel and Palestine will still be at war in 100 years time unless both sides sit down, agree what is needed for peaceful coexistence and actually do what is agreed instead of trying to back out of every agreement made as they have done so far.

The only other alternative is for one side to completely wipe out the other side, while the world watches genocide taking place.

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oh yeah

Fucking hell you bunch of muppets.

I would only hope that the UK government would show as much balls as Israel's if we found ourselves in a similar situation. I doubt it though.

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war crimes

Now what Israel is doing may or may not be proportionate, I dont think the mass bombing of Ireland would have stopped the IRA, but its certainly not war crimes.

They arent trying to kill the civillians, they are going after Hamas, who are firing missiles at their cities. Hamas have also said that muslims should try and target all jewish children, everywhere in the world, this is ethnic cleansing. Israel are not trying to kill all the arabs, only the ones firing missiles at them. These people are hiding in civilian centres, and hence going after them with force will produce civilian casualties this happens, its not nice, but shit happens.

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Alien

Religion?

To the best of my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) but the little war happening in Gaza at the moment has precious little to do with religion, it is a purely political war. After WWII the Jews were given a piece of historic Israel back and the Palestinians living there didn't like that. So the current conflict has been going on for the last 60 years with low blows by all sides.

Perhaps the situation could be resolved (read ceasfire NOT cessation of hatred) by replacing the police in Gaza with UN troops with the authority to kill. That should stop the rockets and therefor the Israeli blockade and any excuse for restrictive military checkpoints on the boarder.

If you want to inform yourselves about the situation a little more there is a wonderful documentary made by a Brit entitled "Death in Gaza". Watch it, it should make even the toughest guy cry.

(Alien because religion not at the center of conflict seems to be an alien concept)

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Unhappy

Bored now

I too am interested on how the hack was perpetrated.

Can we not kick every one out of the area. not let them back in until they learn to behave like grown ups? It makes feel sad that stupid nations like these hold back all of humanity. can we not expunge the lot of them from the gene pool? No wonder our alien over lords have not come down to offer us wonderful advanced technology like clean energy; the first question asked would be... "nice, now how do we turn this into a weapon?"

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Naughty Israel

You mean, in addition to running the worst apartheid regime of all times, in addition to the ongoing genocide, they are hacking TV channels? Now *that* is naughty.

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And whilst I'm at it...

My own personal view is that although yes, Israel has been on the receiving end of Hamas rockets, nobody seems to asking the reason why. Let's look at a fact the Americans and Israelis seem to ignore - Gaza City and the West Bank are the biggest concentration camps in the world. They have been blockaded for years and the Palestinian standard of living there is appalling, if not sub-human. Israel has been on a land grab for years. Not enough imports coming in, not enough exports going out. If Israel had let more supplies in so the quality of life improved for the Palestinians, then perhaps they would not had felt desperate enough to elect (note for the Yanks, ELECT), Hamas. You cannot disagree with the results of an election and call the winners Terrorists just because you don't like the result.

That, in my view, is the problem.

And Israel should be tried for war crimes - what they are doing now is barbaric. 500-plus dead Palestinians so far, with 2500 injured. Oh, and FIVE Israelis.

Animals.

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Boffin

Solution to M.E. problems.

Here you are Ms. Bee:

Make the Israeli foreign aid (all of it) dependent on immediately finding a solution with the Palestinians. Give a large (but reduced over time) bonus, based on speed of reaching a peace agreement. Give the Palestinians a huge amount of foreign aid too, and a similar time-based bonus.

BUT:

There is a problem (on both sides) that a minority want to provoke the other side into retaliation, at any cost, because of their political agendas. There has to be a disincentive to retaliate ...

So:

For every single Palestinian rocket falling on Israel, lower the Palestinian foreign aid by $100 million. Similar huge penalties for other terrorist attacks and peace-breaking events.

For every single Palestinian civilian killed by Israel, lower Israel's aid by $100 million. Similar huge penalties for leaving illegal settlements and other peace-breaking events.

The public pressure on both governments and terrorists to abolish the bombs/rockets and the retaliations (and generally to keep the peace) will be immense. Even if a rocket hits Israel or Israel drops a bomb, the victim won't want to retaliate.

Send the Nobel Peace Prize c/o el Reg, please :-) Ta...

P.S. Yes, of course I know that enforcement and judgement is a problem. Let a uninvolved and non-aligned country make the decisions - perhaps Iceland or Tonga??

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A war on euphimisms.

I'm so tired of hearing people arguing about which side are the terrorists and which are protecting their people.

Israel has stated that one of their aims in the campaign is to "undermine popular support for Hamas" and I can't see how that is any different from Hamas saying, "We'll keep firing rockets until civilians change their ways," other than the fact that Israel is far more powerful and efficient.

I do think it's worth pointing out though that while Hamas may have "broken" the latest ceasefire, Israel never lifted the siege against the civilian population which was a condition of the ceasefire to begin with.

In terms of attacking civilians, they're both just as guilty, but at least Hamas is honest about it.

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Anonymous Coward

"Jews were given a piece of historic Israel back"

Given back? More like took back and nobody dared challenge it because anyone that could was already feeling a little bit guilty for having screwed around in the area. Yet again the aftermath of British and American imperialism comes back to bite us on the ass.

All this talk of who is the terrorists out of Israel and Hamas is pretty irrelevant because history only remembers the point of view of the winner and Israel has more money, more arms and a nasty streak a mile wide so will no doubt do unto Hamas what Darth Vader wanted to do unto the Rebel Alliance.

Personally I think the UN should impose economic sanctions on Israel to even things up a little bit and then the world should just let them fight it out.

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Black Helicopters

Solved

Well easy to solve this one, get the leaders of both sides in a room, and brodcast it publically on TV / Radio in english /arabic - that if BOTH sides don't just STOP they'll find their beloved leaders dead, and it will keep going until they stop, the deputy leaders, supports their families..

Pointless violence maybe but at some point they are going to get it, and just learn to live with each other..

Oh and I have nothing against either Isreal or the people of Gaza, just the ****wits running it, going oh look my "stick" is bigger than yours..

Anonymous - well obvious reasons really!

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IT Angle

IT?

You have 2 groups of arseholes fighting and killing each other to determine who has the best imaginary friend.

If anyone can work out which side owns the miserable scraps of land that they keep fighting over, then they are stupider than I am, or at the very least far more blinkered.

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@Philip Kroker

"..the Jews were given a piece of historic Israel back..."

Surely thats not historically Israel, but biblically? They claimed a 'divine right' to that territory, and the US/UK backed the claim, forcibly migrating the extant populace, against their will, into 'reservations'... (that sound familiar to the Native Americans?)

I'd say that places this squarely as a religious conflict, albeit with modern sectarianism as a close cohort.

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@Philip Kroker

You said "the little war happening in Gaza at the moment has precious little to do with religion"

but then went on to say

You said "After WWII the Jews were given a piece of historic Israel back and the Palestinians living there didn't like that."

What about the Balfour Declaration and UN Resolution 181 (II) of 1947 which would indicate that (regardless of birthplace) a Jewish person has a "National Home" in Palestine, this is land ownership defined by religion.

If there were no differences of religion there would be no border, don't dress it up as a "political problem", as for northern ireland, it wasn't a british/irish political argument, hell, different streets couldn't mix if they worshiped the same god in slightly different ways.

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Stop

civillian casualties and war crimes

How short our memories are.

Let's just get this off-topic thread back to its grass roots issue so we can get back to the plot.

Yes, I'm afraid I have to reluctantly agree that churchill should have stood trial for war crimes.

Prior to the carpet bombings of Dresdon, the willfull neglegence of civilian lives during the state of war was considered unthinkable by the more civilised empires.

Unfortunately, England was backed into a corner, and the new technology of aerial combat allowed us to distance ourselves from the repercussions of our devastating military actions

Before planes, wars were fought on fields, army facing army and civilians were quickly evacuated (like they needed persuasion) from the area of conflict. Civil casualties by comparison to todays wars were miniscule

Then America took Dresdon as a new precedent and ran with it. Let us not forget Little Boy, after staging and provoking the Pearl Harbour attack (fact) and ignoring calls from Japan to enter negotiations (fact) they lied about the military status of the target (fact). We all know the rest.

War crimes? We all have bloody hands. It's time to stop pointing fingers and start negotiating.

As for religion? It's a dirty disease that causes nothing but death suffering and ignorance.

How many wars have been ended by religion?

OK, then. How many has it started?

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Unhappy

Now for some more completly uneducated responses (just like all those above)

Whether the size of the Israeli action is justified or not is debatable, but action WAS forthcoming. If Indonesia started firing missiles into northern Australia, or Mexico started firing into the states or the Irish started firing missiles into England (or the Scots, or the Welsh, or the French or the Cornish - lets face it everyone wants a go at England! :P), a response would be swift and timely and not protested excessively - that the Israelis held off for this long under constant missile attack is in my opinion (after knowing how passionate a people Israelis are) is quite remarkable.

Still one has to look at this in perspective with the West Bank, the people in the West Bank have probably more reason to complain bout Israel (with large settler communities and the West Bank barrier) then those of Gaza, who if we remember a few years back, the Israelis physically removed all of the Israeli settlements unilaterally from Gaza and gave it completely to the Palestinians. However, in the last year, there has been few if any incursions into the west bank, the various blockades and road blocks are slowly being dismantled, the economy and all up security of the West Bank is improving. And peace almost looks a possibility there!

So whats the difference? Well the obvious answer is Hamas, but i doubt its that simple - especially since many of those firing missiles from Gaza seem also to be from groups like the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade who are more aligned with Fatah then Hamas, so whats the difference? If someone can answer that question - maybe, just maybe a solution can be found...

Oh and whilst religion is used as a rallying call from both sides, this is really nothing to do with religion, its a territorial dispute just like the Falklands (for example). Its just another excuse to draw the simple-minded more deeply into conflict...

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Anonymous cowards day?

Is this international anonymous cowards day or somesuch? The place is infested with them.

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Flame

Predictable.

you must have seen these coming a mile off!

<islamic nutter voice>you are massacring our women and children!</inv>

<us backed israeli voice>you are firing rockets at us from their schools and homes!</usbiv>

<inv>because you have occupied our land!</inv>

<usbiv>we gave some of it [the shitty part we don't want] back!</usbiv>

<inv>you have blockaded us!</inv>

<usbiv>because you bring in missles (see previous reason)</usbiv>

<inv>because we must martyr ourselves in the name of allah to get our homeland back</inv>

<usbiv>it was our homeland first (yeah 2K years ago!)</usbiv>

<inv>you will not give us all we want and so must be killed!!</inv>

<usbiv>you will not give us all we want and so must be killed!!</usbiv>

and on, and on and on. can we take it as read that no-one is going to change their behaviour since it is backed by God? they're as bad as each other.

I'm with Marcus - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UY-ZrwFwLQg

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@Now for some more completly uneducated responses (just like all those above)

The Cornish huh? No problem, blow all the bridges over the Tamar and ban the sale of pasties. Sorted.

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Flame

Imminent Mid-East peace solution aside...

I'm glad comments were allowed. I was a bit curious on perspectives on this across the pond. With Israel a longtime US ally, had to wonder if our media might be covering this with above average bias. But nope - seeing the same things here you would see in the US (blinkered perspectives, anachronistic views of religion, history reinterpreted to fit contemporary thinking - it's all there :)

Glad we are mutually agreed there cannot possibly be a middle ground.

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Stop

Turn the tables

by 90 degrees. The Gaza strip appears to be split vertically- so why not split it centrally, giving a shorter border to maintain and- hopefully- mixing things up for long enough that people stop fighting? Or find out if there's anything specific that Israel would like from the region- perhaps a few square miles- that it could take as "victor" and cease hostilities?

And to the "167 israelis hurt" ACs- if I shot 2000 rockets into a region my intention would very definately have to be to kill as many as possible. And given the quality of the targeting on those rockets, pretty indicriminately.

If I phone people up, bomard them with papers and stick stuff on TV saying to leave their homes unless they're militants and THEN bomb the hell out of the remaining few, that's far less of a war crime as it's no-where near as indiscriminate. You've told everyone to leave the area you're bombing. Anyone left is a pretty legitimate target.

And to the Ireland commentor, it never got that bad- and one cause of that was probably the Irish phoning up and saying they were going to blow up wherever it was they were attacking rather than just firing rockets into a shopping mall.

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Anonymous Coward

"since the conflict began last month"

For your info, the conflict did not begin last month but in 1948 and cannot possibly stop unless this ridiculous religion-based "state" is dissolved and turned into a real country (like Palestine as it was before the idiotic UK/US intervention) where all citizens would have equal rights. The IIIrd Reich exterminated gypsies and gays, but to my knowledge no-one gave them their own countries for them to exterminate the natives. Of course, the US needed only one outpost in the middle east at the time, so no need to "create" more states. But now, with the need for cheap oil, maybe we should create a gay state where Iraq used to be?

Anon to avoid the zionist flames.

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Coat

Time running out

Well, at least it looks like time may be running out for the Israeli offensive.

I can't see how the US can continue to block calls for a UN Security Council resolution mandating a ceasefire after the latest atrocity - targeting a UN run school full of people fleeing the fighting and murdering 40 of them.

Maybe now we can start to talk about international sanctions against Israel, and force them to come to terms with the fact that they have to answer for their crimes before they can expect peace.

If I had a time machine, I'd assasinate Balfour - that was the worst foreign policy decision this country ever made.

Mine's the one with the magic solution in the pocket - not.

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Bah

Why is everyone bellyaching about Palestinians firing rockets onto their own land? Any "Israeli" that gets in the way would've been safer staying in Florida/Russia/[Insert your place] here instead of evicting people off their land and complaining they get pissed off about it.

Ethnic cleansing is just that even if Jewish people do it.

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Paris Hilton

Leave Gazza alone..

Beats me WTF Gazza has done to upset the Israelis, I mean, sure he had problems with alcohol, he allegedly had that breakdown, he was a shit manager (aren't all ex players?) and he gave his ex wife hell but shelling him and sending a couple of armoured divisions after him seems a bit extreme to me.

BTW, quick correction, I think you'll find he played for Newcastle United, Tottenham Hotspur, Middlesbrough, Everton, Lazio and Rangers but never West Ham (colloquially known as The Hamas) so unless Kettering Town has a large and influential Jewish following I think it's all been a bit of an unfortunate mistake.

Paris, I'm sure she's got a good grasp of important political issues as well.

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Those Hamas missiles

Aren't they the home-made tubes that don't really do much other than make a statement?

Of course, when I say don't do much that doesn't mean I'd want one going off next to me, or anywhere near me, just that a single Israeli tank probably contains more explosives than all 9,000 missiles that have been fired.

I know it's a good way to settle your conscience telling yourself that you're performing a just and proportionate response but most of those missiles land in fields and olive groves (that were farmed by Palestinians for thousands of years before they were taken).

As a last point, and someone please set me straight, Judaism>Christianity>Islam (in age terms). The Christians and Muslims must have come from somewhere right? Would they have been Jews before changing their subscription? Meaning that those with an ancestral right were already there?

I mean, I'm no expert but I'd say a Semitic Palestinian has more claim to be there than a Russian.

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IT Angle

Cyberwar, my rrrrs!

So, to get back to the topic, why exactly is this act of old school electronic/psychological warfare being billed as an attack in cyberspace? Since when has the rf spectrum been part of cyberspace? I don't see the connection. TFA has been sexed up!

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Pirate

What its really about

This is'nt about wheteher the Israeli government is right or wrong, or how the oppressed palestians fight back or which sky fairy gave which side exclusive use of which bit of land.

Its about power. thats it.

On one side we have the Israelies , who have elections due in March, so the government is going for the 'look we protected the people' card and grab power that way.

While on the other side in Gaza we have Hamas, who are never going to stop firing missiles in Israel because without Israel's oppression of any sort, the people of Gaza will turn to hamas and say 'Hey f***wits... what actually have you done for us?' and kick them out of power

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@ the ones who say "good on Israel"

Okay, you're on an IT site, that should suggest you're intelligent people (even though some comments seem to suggest otherwise)

Does anyone want to hazard a guess why bombing a civilian population to get at a handful of terrorists is a BAD IDEA? Sure your bomb has just killed a dozen terrorists, but how many have you now created?

Imagine this scenario:

You're a 15 year kid who dreams of peace. You're in your home when an Israeli tank fires on the building next to yours trying to kill the terrorists that have run in their to fire at the tanks. In the resulting explosion your home collapses, killing your parents and younger sister.

What would you do? Say "Oh well, I'll forgive them as they were only trying to protect themselves from the evil terrorists"? Or go out, find a gun and start shooting back?

While both sides refuse to abide by the agreements made (as stated, Hamas may have broken the ceasefire, but Israel were the ones refusing to abide by the conditions of the ceasefire in the first place) then nothing will change short of one side committing genocide.

And don't think the Israelis are above lying to get sympathy, don't forget it was the Israeli secret service who tried to bomb a US warship a few decades ago in order to create sympathy. Their mistake was getting caught

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Stop

What will bombing achieve?

OK so Hamas will (potentially) be neutralised by this, and their rocket attacks will quieten down. But how many future generations of radicalised youth, with little or no prospects will have been created by Israel's economic blockade, and the current military action? How many more potential suicide bombers have been created?

The bombing (from both sides) is wrong and won't achieve anything. Try opening up Gaza's borders so that they can develop industry, and trade, so that they can actually build their economy - giving people opportunities to succeed in life, rather than years of life struggling to eke out a decent standard of living, and you're not going to have nearly as many radicalised people.

Take away the radicalised, pissed off people, and you starve Hamas of the oxygen that they need to justify their existence.

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@Psymon

"Prior to the carpet bombings of Dresdon (sic), the willfull neglegence (sic)of civilian lives during the state of war was considered unthinkable by the more civilised empires.

Unfortunately, England was backed into a corner,........"

N.Ireland, Scotland and Wales not involved, obviously.....

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Anonymous Coward

I would hope

That if the tables were turned, that if it was Palestinians that blockaded, bombed and murdered hundreds of Israelis (I think the total just this time has been greater than 600). That Palestinians were the ones with influence in the US that stopped Israel receiving UN protection.

That is Palestinians claimed victim status when clearly they are nothing of the sort. That if Palestinians were the ones invading Israel and shelling schools. That if there best justification for this slaughter of Israelis was a startled old woman complaining about the hole in her garden wall from a rocket.

I would hope we would step in and protect Israelis from those war mongering Palestinians and their bombs and tanks.

But the tables aren't turned, and it's Israel having one last killing spree while they effectively control the US Presidency, not the Palestinians. The best we can aim for is to get Olmert up on trial at the Hague for war crimes.

As to whether Olmert has support that can prevent this, he does not. He didn't for the invasion of Lebanon, he is a minority leader in a coalition and his control of the US stems from the misbelief that Jewish American voters will block vote the way the hardliners in Israel tell them too.

I think this is false. Olmert does not have support and once out of power will not have power or influence and will be prosecutable.

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