Sixty-one days and counting: if your stash contains any material that is or may fall foul of the Government’s new laws on extreme porn, then that is how long you have left to destroy it or otherwise get rid of it. Because, courtesy of Consenting Adult Action Network (CAAN), The Register can reveal today that the law is going …
All very ridiculous
What the hell am I supposed to do with all this dead animal porn? I guess this will be a puzzle for most of us?
Mine's the one with the, er, semen-stained chihuahua corpse in the pocket.
So how will this work then?
What are they going to do? An amnesty? "Bring in all your dodgy images, no questions asked, give us something to while away those quiet shifts"?
A quiet campaign of knocking on every door in the country, examining hard drives, and arrests at four in the morning?
Or just a 'shop your neighbour' policy?
Two stories, same post applicable:
They really ARE going down the Orwellian path!
Flames, as they'll be having us burn unapproved books (and probably unapproved people) next!
Welcome to NuLabouria.
"Papers please, Citizen"
We really are fucked in this country. I think we DO need to take a lead from Thailand.
Mines the oilskin with a large dead salmon in one pocket and a cat'o'nine in the other.
encrypt your hard drives lads!
Ministry of Justice
aka... Morality Police
At least that's what comes to my mind whenever I read it.
get rid of my irrevocabily imprinted memory image now or else commit thought crime... oh no it's irrevocabily imprinted. Maybe I can have a brainwash on the NHS?
To clear the confusion about what is O.K. and what is considered suitable only for Judges and Law Lords, it would be handy for HM Gov to copy the complete waste of time and money known as the 'Citizens Charter' and send us all booklets illustrating what is acceptable for a five knuckle shuffle and what would return a rap over the same knuckles (or is that also counted as pleasure and banned).
We need to know, the tension is unbearable, it's almost exhilarating, in fact it's rather exciting.
Emmanuelle in America
Remember folks, that even stuff like Emmanuelle in America is illegal, would get you put on the offenders register like a pervert. It features HC scenes (i.e. unrated in UK) and simulated snuff movies as the plot line. Emmanuelle went to seek out snuff movies in this fictional movie where she has many sexy adventures and finally gets the bad guys at the end.
It may be fictional snuff, but that doesn't matter, this law has a 'simulated' clause in it to catch that. In the minds of Jacqui Smith MP for Reddich your possession of Emmanuelle in Ameria encourages the market for snuff movies that exists only in her head, and the heads of other dysfunctional NuLabour MPs.
It's no different that the people who wanted to ban Harry Potter because they thought it encouraged witch craft, they imagine a world filled with witches they need to battle against like they see in the movie.
You and the bad guy in the movie who makes snuff films are one and the same person in the minds of these people. It's like she can't tell the difference between real life and a movie plot, or the difference between a person watching a movie and the bad guy in the plot.
You will be punished as though you are the movie bad guy. She really thinks so little of you, that she'll lock you up, take your kids and ruin your life for watching Emmanuelle in America.
For god sake don't let her watch any Bruce Willis Die Hard movies or she'll start imagining terrorists infiltrating airport baggage handlers and ..... wait.... forgot the ID card for airport workers things...... never mind.
what if you stream said "extreme" material say from shockingtube?
This held that where an individual no longer had control or custody of images in their possession, it would be unsafe to proceed with a prosecution – and convictions based on such evidence were quashed.
Technically it was never in your possession, you were streaming it...
AC for obvious reasons
Is that a helicopt.....
Whilw they are at it ...
... why don't they ban some medical textbooks.
this feels like one of those laws that is purely there to catch people on technicalities toi avoid any real work to prove someones guilt.
ie. We can't prove you murdered your wife, but during our investigation we turned up this picture on your pc, so you're nicked.
There is no way of enforcing this law by itself, short of the idiot method* it will purely be used to hammer people who have been suspected of committing other crimes. I'm all for a suprise inspection of every mp's computer on the day this law is brought in, just to be sure they are leading by example!!
*such as taking your pc full of kiddie porn in to pcworld for them to repair.
So, are the police going to boost their detection figures by trawling the IP addresses of everyone visiting certain international 'extreme' porn websites? Will ISPs be forced to provide this information? What about fetish sites which are 'on the edge' like the now famous Kink.com? How will this information be disseminated to the public? I wouldn't be surpirsed if the first some people know of it is the po'lice knocking on their door and removing their computer. Backsliding. Just becuase the police are too crap to catch the small number of dangerous individuals they will cover it up by prosecuting huge numbers of norms. I bet there becomes some kind of fixed penalty... £60 per naughty pic or something.
You consider that "realistic"?
Do you honestly think that the NSFW image that you linked to qualifies for "a reasonable person would consider the action depicted to be real"? I would like to consider myself reasonable, and to me it is obviously staged.
Presumably this will apply to films as well as pictures. Wouldn't most action/horror films fall foul of this law, realistic looking harm wise. As for the bit about being able to tell it's acting, yes it's a film, but people harass soap baddies thinking they're really nasty and not just actors
Don't worry lads...
So, the morality police are truly in force... but only in England, Wales and Northern Ireland!
Come North by all means, but please clean the seats when you're done.
Wacky Jaqui and hardcore Straw vs the death-porno menace
I thought I should be the first person to claim to be imagining a freshly illegal scene that involves the home secretary and the justice secretary in a death-porn scene, but I deleted the thought some time ago and can no longer access it.
that's that then.
Time to cleanse the hard disks. Welcome to the ever increasingly puritan NuGov land, the land of 18.5%VAT, massive data snooping and government funded filth fishing trips.
O well, the government can now tell you how you're allowed to abuse your body, what you're allowed to be sexually aroused by and what you're allowed to feel (being racist for example is illegal), you arn't allowed to protest without having a permit, you gotta be tagged bagged and registered.
Man I love this planet. At least the yanks have guns that they can use to take up arms against an insane government. All we can do is sulk and send a few letters to MPs who don't give a toss about our opinions becouse we're just sheep and they know better then us.
I hate them all so very much.
Goth horror get-out clause
"Pornographic" is defined as being produced for the purposes of sexual arousal.
It's not porn boss - it's art, innit?
Ahh well. Time to whip out http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=plausible-deniability then.
How dumb will the juries be?
It's not going to be any fun going through prosecution--better to avoid it altogether--but the prosecution has to convince a jury that the picture looks "real".
And what is the definition of an "animal"?
I'm glad I've never had the urge to download Yoda/Skywalker slash comics.
Let's get some in.....
So this article is actually against this stuff, and will probably fall foul of the new law. There are reckless people inciting the mindless masses to revolt against the system.
Me personnally, I'm going to Torr**** Emmanuelle in America, and I've added those sluts to my Favs.
Paris, because even she thinks that this rule sucks. Or because she'd fall foul of it.
just a thought ...it really got me wondering...
does getting shafted and screwed seven ways to sunday by overzelous politicians count as extreme graphic porn?
Can I be the first to point out
... that the government are flogging a dead horse?
I wonder if the Isle of Man will jump on that wagon..
'Bizarre' magazine's full of stuff like the Satanic Sluts. What's their current circulation? that'll be a lot of court cases they need to get out of the way...
It's not on the top shelf in my local W H Smiths either...
"semen-stained chihuahua corpse in the pocket"
I just KNOW that that phrase is going to occur to me at the most inappropriate time. Thanks for brightening my day !
Saying it for the record
There are two types of people in this world, those who respond to a violent situation with an urge to maim people and those who respond to a violent situation with a desire to cuddle and generally be nice to people. Some people get confused about which group is evil.
Jacqui's been sucked off into the hyperreal
> it depicts real harm being carried out in a realistic way
Do the two occurrences of "real" add anything here? Consider what might contradict it. If the harm was unreal? artificial? synthetic? imaginary? All of those are elements of depiction, so the issue is not about depiction but about harm. The concept of fake harm is the concept of fakery, not of harm, of which there is none (unless a stunt went wrong). What about the mode of depiction - would it be contradicted if the depiction were surreal? amateurish? histrionic? enacted by children? by Felix the Cat? in mime? by stick figures? if there's too much blood? too little blood? if it's done to the tune of the Red Flag? In this case we could criticise the depiction on grounds such as bad taste, or an affront to morals and decency (perhaps), but these would be criticisms of the depiction, not of what is depicted. Only children and animals confuse the moon with the finger pointing at it - not rational beings.
The sooner a jury gets to put its mind to this law under proper direction the better. When a schoolteacher is plucked from nowhere to play act as Home Secretary, she's not just temporarily away with the fairies, she has been completely sucked off into the hyperreal - where the concept of depiction has no meaning and peddling simulations is the norm. An opportunity has been wasted by trying to get this law to cover every conceivable fastidious scruple its promoters could think off (except the obvious one - war). But that has been the story of nu labour.
and in the mean time
and in the mean time whilst everyone is looking for peados in the bushes and seeing mad rapists whenever someone is into a bit of the rough stuff or looks a bit odd, children will keep getting raped and abused by their relatives and, close familiy friends. Women will keep getting raped by "friends" and aquintances.
The laws against various forms of porn are a waste of time and do nothing but give the useless filth something to boost their stats with and the MPs something to get hard over "ooo we're shafting the commoners again, ooo yes do it some more you naughty justice ministry ooo."
I beleve there is an excemption for anything with a BBFC certificate so buy a dvd of some horror film to "injoy" (a friend just sugested one called "the hostal" and I am realy starting to worry about him) and it is legal but download stills of the same file from the internet and it might not be
I am seriously considering leaving England, with the government plans to make everything from porn to unapproved political parties illegal and to monitor everyone's communications for signs of such 'terrorist' activities as political dissent or sexual activity between consenting adults.
Until then, I will use Truecrypt and PGP.
Pulp your comic collections, too...
...because Jim Gamble over at CEOP wants all those Manga comics on the banned list, too, and the subject is up for legitimate consideration in Parliament (already at consultation stage). This, despite the fact that even the most 'graphic' cartoons he's talking about are just that: cartoons (as in 'no actual persons were involved in the creation of this drawing'. Jim and his friends (and he has lots of interested 'friends' ready to hitch their collection tins to his cause) want to convince Parliament that the sexual depiction of a completely fictional cartoon fantasy character represents a 'scene of crime'. Despite there not actually being any crime...or even any actual, you know, victim.
And you know what? He might just get away with it, too.
So the Thought Crime is finally here...
Congratulations, New Labour! You have decided that anything that in *your* subjective opinion is dangerous to *us* should be banned and that if *we* look at it, we must be locked up for our own safety and the safety of society!
The fact that there's still no "guidance" from the MoJ (oh, it's coming, honest!) let alone a stipulation to the Police that this should not be used as some sort of "Consolation Prize" law (well, we can't do them for the crime we nicked them for, but we found some dodgy stuff on his PC) just confirms that our leaders have lost all touch with reality and because they know they've already lost the next election they're just pushing through every piece of nonsense they can think of which will make the country a "better place" (in their opinions) such as locking men up for paying for sex, calling Lap Dancing clubs "sexual encounter venues" and assuming that every prostitute has been trafficked.
Time to look out that copy of Truecrypt before the Stasi^W err Geheime Staatspolizei^W^W erm Ministry of Love come knocking on my door...
Article is incorrect (was Re: You consider that "realistic"?)
"Do you honestly think that the NSFW image that you linked to qualifies for "a reasonable person would consider the action depicted to be real"?"
Unfortunately the Register article is incorrect here. The test for whether a reasonable person thinks it's real or not only applies to the people being real, *not* the action. In the linked image, the people are clearly real. ("a reasonable person looking at the image would think that any such person or animal was real" - http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2008/ukpga_20080004_en_9#pt5-pb1-l1g63 ).
The test for the action is merely that the image is "realistic". Images can clearly be realistic, even if we know or suspect it isn't real (e.g., realistic special effects in a film), and I think that the linked image would count.
A reasonable person
AC wrote: "Do you honestly think that the NSFW image that you linked to qualifies for "a reasonable person would consider the action depicted to be real"? I would like to consider myself reasonable, and to me it is obviously staged."
You can never put your faith in a law which can only be judged on the criteria of a reasonable person's views. People have hung on differing interpretations of reasonable, take Derek Bentley and the meaning of "Let him have it" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_Him_Have_It
Re: Sooty, you are right in that this legislation is primarily a catch all. If you should cross any branch of authority you can expect to be investigated on some trumped up charge, which will come to nothing. But rummaging around on your computer is bound to find something chargeable, even if you have gone to great lengths to ensure that no one in any picture could be considered to be under 18, the extreme porn law makes anything else fair game for a prosecution.
That's my birthday!
Struggling to think of......
I'm really struggling to think of one single intelligent, workable idea that has come out of the home office since this person has been the Home Secretary.
She is attempting to 'solve' problems that either dont exist, or 'take action' on stuff that no-one can actually do anything about. I guess to admit either of those two things kind of negates the point in having her and the recently emasculated home office at all.
Whatever that means.
The feature films that are full of violence & murder will be okay because they are not pornography.
I honestly don't know what they are trying to achieve.. all it will do is waste money and resources.
99.9% of the content they are trying to ban must surely be consensual wherever it is produced.
Surely I can just edit together all my films into one giant stream of consciousness of porn and scenes of pretty flowers.
At the end of the day:- the government choose to believe LizKelly and Co.
"she has been completely sucked off"
I really, REALLY wish you hadn't written that about Ms Smith. It's not something I want to think about and now I can't get it out of my mind. Arrrggghhhhh!!!!!!
I notice they are also calling for men to charged with rape if they take the time to try and ascertain before paying that a prostitute is not being trafficked or kept captive, and are then subsequently proved to be wrong.
By the same token, why bother trying to catch the people who produce pirate DVDs and music (difficult) when you can prosecute people for possessing them? (fish/barrel - especially when the experts of more than one legitimate outlet has been fooled by the quality of the pirate goods)
Yes, that's the way to go. Well done NuLabia.
Is it me? ;-)
@So the Thought Crime is finally here...
I can't express my rage in regards to this... I just can't. It's so very extreme that I think I'm running the risk of my brain turning to pulp.
Suffice to say, such a move would be a move too far, and action would have to be taken. The extreme porn law is one in a slew of fascist puritain moves to control the population, you may aswell ban literature, and conversations, pay people £20 to grass up their neighbours or people in the pub that express interests that are not vetted by our overlords.
It would probably be something that could change a peacful, placid person such as my self into an assasin of some sort, the problem is there are so many MPs to kill and they only represent a small portion of the mind washed puritain freaks that need exterminating.
Just remember that the German province of our brave new European nation is in the process of granting its Polizei permission to plant Trojans on the PCs of those it wishes to surveil. How much longer before that idea is washed through the EU's policy laundry, and comes out as a Directive, or even worse a Regulation? (The difference is that Regulations don't even need to be rubber stamped by the provincial parliaments).
How long will it be before it is illegal to connect a PC to the Internet unless one has some government approved "Safety Software" to mediate (and report on) the use of the connection and the contents of the PC behind it. After all, the Vista EULA gives Microsoft the authority to remove any software from the user's PC that Microsoft in their wisdom do not like! And nobody can stop a "Critical Upgrade" can they? One just has to think of the Windows Genuine Advantage fiascos.
... But of course, "No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition"! (Monty Python).
A Glorious Day!
The New UK™ welcomes you, citizen!
Remember that you are always guilty of something.
Please keep your head down or we might have to take a closer look at you.
the large problem as I see it
is this now puts uk law at significent diffrence with the law in the rest of the world there is a clear world wide distenction on child porn but to take an example a lot of pepol have been menting a lot of us sites (like the kink.com mentioned above not that I know what it is about <.< >.> ) are perficetly legal there so pepol are going to have no idar that there content is now illegal in the uk and a lot of site that host legal (in uk tearms) porn might have banner adds depicting seanes that are illagle it is a total mine feilad and only pepol who have no idar how the internet porn inderstry works would ahve thought it up (again not that I am an expert on internet porn maby I should be poting anon?)
If government were a product, selling it would be illegal
"Every government is a parliament of whores. The trouble is, in a democracy, the whores are us."
P. J. O'Rourke
I see the UK has gone straight through the "nanny state" stage and right into "Fucking LA LA land".
Can I upload the videos where I put my nuts in a vice and beat myself off while my wife spits in my face?
Better write to the PM to clarify.
" Be a government informer!
Shop your family and friends to the thought police
Fabulous prizes to be won"
Me? I'm off to afganistan to get captured by the yanks and thrown in gitmo.... at least I'll get a semi fair trial.......
I really wish you hadn't reminded me of that. I only recently got the image out of my head from when a friend linked me it....sighs well back to the nightmares.
I know I'm in the states but damn guys, "thought crime"* is only the beginning....when the hell do you guys get the sense offense over there?
"HES A SENSE OFFENDER GET HIM!!!"
*Graham Marsden for reminding me of this movie
/mines the one with the Mona Lisa rolled up inside