We all know Wacky Jacqui will just shrug it off. She's unstoppable.

If they don't listen, and NuLab MP standing for re-election on an 'We must have ID Cards' manifesto stands the risk of getting the old have-ho no matter how safe the seat.

And remember, El Gordo needs his Scottich chums to stand any hope of having an iota of a chance to still be PM after the votes are counted.

Mines the one with the Polling card in the pocket. Just wishing that the General Election was next week.

I still think we should devolve fully Scotland, as much as I love the Scotts it was Scottish MP's who voted for the ban on smoking in England and Wales, if it wasn't for them we'd still be able to smoke in a pub rather than have to go out in this bloody chilly weather and have a fag!

Jobs because I've love to remove Mac users from the UK too!

It may not count for much, but at least it is on record. Surely Westminster cannot discount the clear wishes of the Scottish People? (Again: surely the last two hundred times is enough?)

>Members of the Scottish Parliament decided the cards would not deter crime, would not add to security and would do very little for civil liberties as well.

What is it about Scottish MPs? When they're at home, they seem to actually understand reality, as clearly demonstrated by this story. But Scottish MPs in Government in Whitehall are failing miserably to do a damn thing to stop the IDiots pushing ID cards (let alone erosion of my civil rights and trying to tax me to death). Is there some sort of moron field at the border?

It's a crying shame the Scottish Parliament can't block them. The day they become independent and then get the power to dump Whitehalls more moronic ideas, I'm there (assuming they want any middle-aged IT geeks)

Oh fer fuck sake. As a Scot, who doesn't mind the Scottish Parliament, hates the SNP and especially the smug bastard that is Alex Salmond, WE DID NOT CAUSE ENGLAND AND WALES TO GET A SMOKING BAN (yes I'm shouting!).

Count the number of Scottish MPs in Westminster, now count the number of English/Welsh who also voted, I think you'll find that Scottish MPs were far from the majority seeking a ban.

... this UK fear and panic concerning ID cards. I've lived and worked in countries were ID cards are a natural part of life (France, Sweden, Finland), something very useful and practical. But I suppose since it's "on the continent" it cannot be good enough for the Good Ole Island.

wtf? read this, and then re-evaluate your "We cant smoke indoors because of the Scots" attitude

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4714660.stm

in case you cant be arsed, its a full breakdown of how the votes went.... now count the Scots.

Now, who dictates the indroduction of the unpopular laws in Scotland? We all know Holyrood has no real powers.. that just leaves... who?

Much as I agree with you on devolution (in fact, actually I support full independence, unsurprising giving I'm a member/activist of the SNP), in fact it wasn't "Scottish MP's" that voted in your smoking ban; whilst 42 Scottish MP's did vote for it, so did 298 English MP's. Since only 183 MP's voted against it, 175 of whom were English, it means that the Scottish MP's didn't really make much of a difference.

It's also worth mentioning that the ban brought England into line with the rest of the UK since everyone else already had it.

Really, the blame lies solely with yourselves; you voted in the Government. Even if everyone in Scotland voted against Labour, it'd make no difference at all, unless (and I really hope they do) they all voted SNP, and then the only real outcome would be an independence settlement, not anything directed at England.

On the other hand, Scotland had no MP's on the Government at all for most of the eighties; a scandal in any democracy. Maggie had no moral right to rule in Scotland and look at all the damage she did.

So really I don't think you have any right to complain about Scottish democracy affecting you.

Oh and if you're not minding, that North Sea oil money would be nice about now, ta. Sure, we could use it to prop up our banks rather than shunt through dodgy mergers that only benefit people in London. Mind you, doubt we'd have enough left after that to pay for our share of the Olympics or Trident.

Ah well, not like we'll ever see any benefit of either is it?

Unless you count being the place that keeps the nukes for you.

If will be an effective veto if no government body in Scotland takes part and requires them, or even refuses them as sole evidence of identity. Also the enforcement aspects of chasing people down, checking them etc can simply be underfunded to the point of being irrelevant.

But remember folks, its not the card, its the database and legislation to force us to use it. Anyone who will let you off having a card but not the registration into a massive single authentication database is still a big brother proxy.

there are many who are prepared to take a stand and refuse to get one of these stupid cards myself oncluded. The question is have you?

Has always suggested it would say no to ID cards and the SNP will certainly back that stance.

There has always been a clear public feeling that they simply would not be tolerated up here and that is now being made clear in a polite way.

If the government presses ahead then the polite bit will disappear and the gloves will be off.

Poll tax riots? Nothing compared to what is in store with the ID issue.

I'd have thought the Scots would have loved to force us English to carry ID cards when in Scotland.

"I'd have thought the Scots would have loved to force us English to carry ID cards when in Scotland."

Why?

I'm partnered to an English person. Before that -- I was also partnered to an English person. We live in Scotland. Better all round standard of living. Jealous much?

I can quite see why you are being AA -- you're obviously a complete and utter knob. Try logic.

I still maintain the English education system is substandard ...

...give you cancer

...make you fat

...make you follow Arsenal

Thank f*ck for that.

Im a Scot and as a Scot on behalf of all Scots, I laugh in Jaki's face. HAHAHA.

Just out of curiosity, the 5bn needed to do this..... since we have said no, does that mean it now comes entirely from England / Wales taxes / public funds?

If were not going to have them, were sure as hell not paying for them......

On another note, whatever commentard blamed us for the English smoking ban.......

actually I'm quite happy to take the blame for that, its a damn good move, I was tired of being slowly killed by other ignorant b*stards' second hand smoke at the pub, and now I dont have to worry about it while visiting the penninsula either :P

If nobody wants ID cards...... move to scotland. If England ends up footing the bill for them, and everyone moves out, there wont be any moolah for Jacki to burn.

Of course, that doesnt mean we can't demand to see ID when Jacki turns up at the border to find out where all those people who "keep coming up to her" asking for ID cards have gone.

Warning....way off topic!

Much as I appreciate the humour...(actually it would be visas you'd require :) It's a dangerous route, and I for one am not about to vote for any party that would see Scotland annexed from the rest of the UK...United we stand and all that...I certainly agree that Scotland should be able to make more of it's own rules to accomodate any cultural or demographic differences with the rest of the UK, and we should possibly see more of the cash from the North Sea coming here before it's too late, but let's face it...it ain't going to happen any time soon. Scotland has one of the poorest health records in Europe, has slums in it's major cities and still the Scottish "Government" can't seem to direct any money that it does have into these areas. Alex Salmond has arsed it up for us in so many ways (don't get me started on how he's fucked up the education system for teachers...and no, I'm not a teacher), he's gone for the point scoring opportunities and is clutching on to a notion of Scottish Independance that probably the majority of Scotland isn't actually that bothered about getting.

"for Scots it will be a glorified passport and not much use at all."

And that's different to what it'll be in the rest of the UK how, exactly?

If/when ID cards are introduced, the only people carrying them will be people who already have a legit passport or driving licence. The crims/terrorists/soap-dodgers will be the ones who'll evade the system...

It's not the card that most people object to, it's the monstrous Database that is behind it.

The amount of information that will be stored (for quite a long period of time) is frightening and nothing like it exists anywhere else, regardless of whether that country has ID cards or not.

...Now that IS a good idea!

but it means a hell of a lot to the Scottish people.

I seem to remember a Hollywood butchery of a famous time in the past where the English tried to encroach on the civil liberties of the Scottish... As far as I can recall, I don't think that ended well for us.

Good on you, Scotts.

Congratulations, you've invented a new word.

...that some "close friends" of NuLab might own a company specialising in creating ID cards?

> The real point, which annoys many of us in England, is that when it comes to things that affect only Scotland generally only Scottish MPs (MPs represent Scottish Constituencies) get to vote on it, whereas when it comes to things that affect only England Scottish MPs also get to vote on it.

That's because you have the UK Parliament in London, not the English Parliament, but the Scottish Government has already been established. I see no problem. Scotland is (well, for the time being) part of the UK, and its MPs participate and vote in the UK Parliament. If you don't have an English Parliament, and have to use the UK Parliament as a proxy to determine your home affairs, whose fault is that?

Remember that the Scottish Act of Union (1707) was signed some distance from the Scottish Parliament of the day, because an angry mob was trying to burn it down to stop it being enacted. Daniel Defoe, at the time the Chancellor of the English Exchequer, made records of the payments made (in gold) to each Scottish landowner to buy their vote - you had to be a landowner to vote in those days. So now that Scotland has nearly righted that wrong, why not take the opportunity to regain control of your country's affairs in the same way...? :-)

Sensible and not actually passing any binding laws.

I wish I'd actually voted SNP.

I would move there but I can't understand the language.

ID cards are not for security. Its so that you can be identified when you may have committed a crime of the new world order (e.g. sniffing in a public place).

Toning it down a bit in more realistic language, this whole ID card business is not the government's idea - this is a fresh bullshit from the EU, that wonderful unelected organisation.

But its still nothing to do with security. They just want to be able to identify anyone anywhere at any time.

Pass the copy of 1984, please.

-- Richard

If only "his holiness" G. Brown Esq takes note. He wont of course because anything which he utters is "Holy Writ" although he bears no semblance to the Pope. This has been the case ever since the utterances of "His Holiness, Flash Harry" in the 1960/70s. Just a great pity he did not rule himself out complete with his Alzheimers earlier, and many of his little helpers with him. We might have been spared some of the excesses recently brought out into light by Der Fuhrer.

that the westminster lot don't listen to anything.They don't listen to the people, and they'll find an excuse and some weasel words to justify ignoring this as well.