Quote: "Presumably someone else will provide the actual ships".

I guess they did. The pirates were apprehended JOINTLY by HMS Cumberland and Neustrashimuy. As you correctly noted both were carrying tons of weaponry useless against anything short of an enemy battle group (or submarine fleet). However the Neustrashimuy was carrying aslo guess what? A KA-27 helicopter...

You are quite correct however that one helicopter carrier along with a couple of troop transports for the marines with some support from a couple of spotter planes flying from Djibuty can deal with the piracy off the Horn of Africa once and for all. Sending frigates there is a waste of taxpayer money.

Are pirates still liable to summary execution if captured during battle? That would resolve any sticky legal problems of bringing them before a court.

Maybe the Americans could be involved?

Yarr!

Some one who understands what is going on down and around Gulf Of Aden. Although 1 in 1000 is low would you want to be the 1? I dont and I know plenty who dont, I transit the area regularly and have heard attacks carried out on the radio, it is eeirie and disturbing. The Navy have enough to do without watching us, but hey we'll take all the help we can get.

The Americans want to arm Merchant Vessels, however that upsets thier plans for controlling Merchant Vessels visiting their ports.

Follow the French example they dont care if it's one of thiers they will go and get it/ them back, in fact just let the French do it.

Couldn't they deliver extra munitions to the pirates? Even if a pirate was in a hurry to get away, I'm sure Bofors et al. produce suitable delivery systems. Just don't tell anyone we're being so generous...

Ooh... an icon that refers to flank speed...

Scupper every pirate vessel (there's a dhow (Davy) Jones sinking joke in there somewhere).

"Presumably someone else will provide the actual ships. (Good luck with that - other European countries mostly make our navy look massive. The only exception is the French, and they have plenty of admirals of their own.)"

What are you referring to specifically here? the UK has the third largest navy in both number of ships and overall tonnage, so we do have a massive navy, maybe not in the same league as Russia or the US but it's hardly an illusion :P

...never seen Under Siege...

"A typical modern day sailor - say a radar operator or a cook - may be little handier in a face-to-face fight than a civilian"

Lewis Page on another rant - yawn.

How / how often do they seize 2/3 rds of a ship! :-)

More Pirates Please!

FSM etc etc...

Make the bastards walk the plank, response to seaborne piracy should be swift and lethal.

Efros

... as usual, Lewis. I do have to take issue with one point on the first page, though. I understood, from reading the local press, that the problem in this part of the world isn't so much the Singapore Strait, but the Malacca Straits, between Peninsula Malaysia and Sumatra. That would also better match your requirements for a nearby lawless or poor area sheltering them: Johor Baru and Singapore are reasonably provided for, or at least the part of JB that's at the very bottom of Malaysia. It's also an incredibly crowded shipping lane where people have to look out for each other, since the consequences of doing otherwise would be disastrous.

The Malacca Straits, on the other hand, are much bigger, although also very busy. That said, Sumatra is a *very* large island, with lots of places for bad guys to slip away. Also, the Indonesian government seems to take the problem less seriously than the Malaysian government. They have far fewer resources in the area than Malaysia, despite Sumatra being larger than Peninsula Malaysia.

As for a Naval solution, would it not be possible for someone at Thorneycroft or the like to design a new version of an MTB? They seemed to have some success against E-boats a number of years ago, I recall - fast, nippy and with some serious teeth. Perhaps acting as a minor battle group with a helicopter carrier?

Finally, while piracy on the High Seas is still an offence liable to summary capital punishment on the statute books, I believe it ranks alongside arson in Her Majesty's dockyards as an anachronism. Furthermore, I think there just might be some pushback against from other nations, who might decide that RN ships were indulging in piracy every time they were enforcing arms embargoes or the like.

Helicopters - would the need to be of the black kind? Not going for the obvious because, in this part of the world, it ain't no joke.

They should watch they don't raid shipments of CDs/DVDs then sell copies worldwide, The RIAA and the FBI would be invading Somalia by the end of the week.

cant we just send in the ninjas?

I'll get you with my moustaches, you bounder!

Surely the best way to stop piracy is to introduce them to health and safety.

I for one would be interested in reading their risk assessment and I'm pretty sure that the news footage showed no sign of high-visibility clothing.

the Somali leader gave permission for the Russians, GB and any other interested nation to enter Somali waters and use "whatever means deemed necessary, including military force"

Seems the Somalis have realised that the pirates are a thorn they don't need in their side and the idea of someone else killing them off quite appeals.

I do agree that sending frigates etc is a total waste of time and money, and that smaller helicopter carriers would be a better idea.

But then when did the MOD / UK.gov ever use commonsense in anything??

Example being the Eurofighter, all the wars we are embroiled in currently and lately would have been better fought with a fleet of A-10 close support aircraft than high altitude Multi role fighters....allegedly army and marines find the american A-10 pilots more help the the RAF boys and that afghani militants tend to retreat rapidly when an A-10 shows up.....don't blame them....wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of the "avenger cannon"

Helicopter as thats whats needed

Does anyone else see the connection between HMS Cumberland's involvement and the fact that its national sausage week?

Choppers are notoriously vulnerable to ground fire (you touched on this). Now, while having a standoff FY2 system is all well and good, the situation here was the pirates were challenged, opened fire and got hosed by return for their trouble. Changing this to "That looks like a pirate ship", press button, BOOM, takes the process to a new level. Let's face it, going in for a closer look, to see if they've got shoulder launched rocketry or a nice 20mm cannon squirrelled away somewhere, before going for the "...and the horse you rode in on" option has the drawback of holding quite a high risk of finding out that they have the hard way. You're veering into the Pyrrhan book of tactics here if you're thinking that way

Not that I'm objecting to the concept of subjecting pirates to serious fuckage from range, it makes all the problems go away including repatriation, but I'll bet that it wouldn't go down well with the Guardian readers. I think we're stuck with fast boats and marines to keep the hand-wringing types happy.

Is it wrong that I saw the news item's photo depicting the "pirates" in a boat with their hands behind their heads..... and I thought they were doing the french taunt at the cameraman?

Several other countries have very competent equivalents of the Royal Marines. I have always thought that half a squad per cargo ship from the China Sea area through the Suez Canal would be a very good deterrent. No fast pursuit required, the pirates would present themselves for deterring/killing.

Put a warship or five in the relevant areas for helicopter and larger weapon support.

In a year or two the problem would be much reduced.

And the Marines would have had a nice sea cruise.

The mere mention of a fighting cook or other ordinary forces person will always end up with Mr Seagull making an appearance. Just one quick flurry of slaps accompanied by the stony face that is hard yet somehow caring will soon put a stop to any threat to the world.

Though I'm not sure that this is big enough for Steve - it may be of the scale required for another Rambo outing, he usually does these small local bookings.

"So let's assume, worst case, that pirates captured on the high seas would need to be brought to the UK for trial. "

Bollocks to that - Cap'n to pass sentence, then keelhaul/cat o' nine or give 'em the Plank. Don't even need to make port.

Unlikely as the Navy would see those as a threat to their new fast-jet carriers. Do we have any anti-tank Lynx choppers left? Surely we could operate a dozen or so off a converted merchantman, seeing as the Army seems keener on the Apache now. Or we could rent a USN Amphibious Assault Ship or whatever they're calling their landing support chopper carriers.

On the note of frigates and destroyers being too big, they do have the loiter capability to hang around off the pirate areas for weeks at a time. A fleet of small attack craft such as Boghammers would need a floating base ship or secure harbour to operate from. There is also the fact that a large warship tends to scare pirates away, which is often the preferred result for the PC brigade, whereas smaller craft may induce sillier pirates to have a go, much as the rigid-raiders used by the RMCs from HMS Cumberland drew fire from the pirates on Tuesday. Such gunfights risk people getting killed - not popular with the PC brigade if they're "disadvantaged third-worlders, or with our voter-sensitive politicians if their our boys and girls.

The only long-term solution would be a Somali Navy, equipped with Boghammer-like craft to allow coastal pursuits, probably co-ordinated by NATO destroyers/frigates and their choppers, but that is unlikely given that the Somali government seems to be concentrating on its own survival on land just now.

Maybe we could just ask a passing USN carrier to make a srike on Ely and sink all the pirate boats, it would garner some relief whilst the pirates tried to buy new boats, and Prez-elect Obama cold dress it up as being tough on crime, the causes of crime, etc, etc. Of course, I'm sure a good community organiser like Obama could just go to Ely and sort out all their problems in no time, without having to resort to that nasty fighting stuff....

The ships you mean are PNTL Vessels, and where built with gun mounts, they only carry guns and perosnnel to use them when carrying the re-processed fuel.

We (the Merchant Navy) arent alowed to be armed, much apart from anything, it ups the ante with the pirates and on a British Flagged vessel (there are still some of us) the 'Elf and Safety / Risk Assesment would be a mare.

Remeber some of those "big ships" you all see container and tanker can carry as few as 13 (average 20) people and are leagally usually limited to 30 or so souls depending in Life Saving Appliances carried.

"trying to find some way of putting them ashore locally after capture"

Yes, that would do it. I'm sure they would wash ashore somewhere, someday. If you want to stop piracy on the high seas just tell the RIAA / IFPI it's their stuff getting ripped off.

... you've finished creaming yourselves over the Military.

It is not. If the ship is formally chartered by the Navy of the operating country. It can after that put a squad of marines onboard and have the pirates done and dusted. This of course does not work very well for all those penny-pinching scumbags operating under Liberian or North Korean flags.

It will in fact be a very good money earning protection racket for any navy with personnel in Djibuti (hehe... let's see if someone French is reading it).

However, you still need some fairly long range helicopters and a few supporting ships to pick up the marine crews once they are done with their jobs. So end of the day it may not be cheaper compared to rotating a helicopter carrier from a different navy every few week for "extended live target practice".

...that all sounds eminently sensible. So it DEFINITELY won't happen.