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back to article Blu-ray Disc a 'bag of hurt', says Jobs

Want a Mac with a built-in Blu-ray Disc drive? You're in for a long wait - Apple's waiting until the technology becomes more firmly established with consumers. Speaking at the launch of Apple's new notebooks yesterday, CEO Steve Jobs described Blu-ray as "just a bag of hurt" - this despite the company's membership of the Blu-ray …

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Prefer a middle non-optical method for HD?

With the price of flash coming down and the size of the flash cards with it I would be far more interested in a system that allowed me to 'own' films in HD on small cartridges (say a similar size to DS cartridges, not too big, not too small). The idea of downloading and renting films does not appeal but being able to have the films in a more robust and compact digital form does.

I would also like to see such a system where by default the case you bought included the HD card with all the extra's, bonus features etc on it AND a vanilla DVD so I can watch the film on other players until I could upgrade all the players.

You could also imagine 'home hubs' that contained an expandable number of slots into which you could place your cartridges, each being instantly available on your home network once it has been inserted.

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Firmly established... like the Mac ?

"Apple's waiting until the technology becomes more firmly established with consumers"

Umm... most consumers and companies may well wait before buying a Mac until OSX and the Mac are more firmly established...

Muppets. What would have been the harm of offering a BD Reader for a few dollars more ? The 17inch MacBook Pro looks like it's got a screen and graphics capability that would have been shown off very with BD movies...

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Jobs Horns

I want a writer damn it

I don't want a blu-ray player in my mac so I can't watch movies. What loser watches movies on their desktop. I want a Blu-Ray recorder so I can archive off my raw video, 50GB at a time. Maybe then I can free up some space on my HDD.

In other words Steve, don't look to your 'joe iTunes user' market for thoughts on Blu-Ray. Look instead to the creative media users for thoughts. You know - the people who have propped you up all these years? We want a recorder.

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Paris Hilton

and yet

I can burn them with Toast Titanium.... and preview them with toast titanium....

so i can preview them but not actually play them?

paris because im rather confused like her.

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Flame

Lets be realistic here.

‘Blu-ray Disc a 'bag of hurt', says Jobs who recently launched his competing AppleTV HD service.

'Xbox360' is fantastic says Microsoft.

'Titanic is unsinkable' says White Star..

And so on... Does Jobs really believe consumers are that stupid not to see through his plan (I know he must believe so, as he has managed to sell crappy second rate MP3 players to so many people it's untrue).

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Sony are still desperate...

...to win a format war. They beat out HD-DVD but that was mainly because nobody wanted either yet. They have got the uptake numbers because they forced the PS3 owners to have a BluRay drive rather than offering it as an optional extra for people who want it but they still have not beaten the download guys to the finish line.

Sony got beat on Betamax and they have never quite gotten over it, they have always done well with other peoples formats but whenever they try to create their own format they balls it up because someone else offers a cheaper alternative that does not have to be licensed by Sony. Minidisks were great but they were unable to compete with MP3 because anyone could make an MP3 player without having to pay a license to Sony. BluRay might be the one that finally wins a format war for them but I doubt it. To get a benefit from BluRay you need to have a full HD TV, a player and a bunch of disks which you can't play on your laptop while you are on the plane. My first DVD drive (and CD for that matter) was in a computer and the stuff in the front room followed from that so if Sony want to get BluRay out there they need to make cheap drives for computers, laptops and also get the BluRay tech into the xbox (else the xbox users will just turn to downloading HD content like I do).

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Boffin

Downloads not the answer.

I keep reading all the hype about how downloads will kill the uptake of HD physical media in the home. I can't see this happening in the short or medium term, at least within the UK.

There are small islands of high bandwidth data connection to homes currently, mostly within restricted metropolitan areas. This bandwidth is necessary for reliable HD download which doesn't look like a patchwork quilt due to compression artifacts. This isn't going to expand much more widely or that quickly.

BT's Fibre-to-the-Cabinet and 21st Century Network roll-out isn't likely to be anywhere useful for at least a decade, so large chunks of the UK will be fixed at <2Mb/s for the foreseeable future.

In other words, downloads are, and will continue to be a niche market.

As for Blu-Ray. You can blame two things for the failure to take off quickly. Firstly, onerous licensing terms and a death-grip DRM system. Secondly, most films don't look much better in HD that they do in upscaled DVD. Indeed, the films at the cinema seem to be *LOWER* resolution and grainier than DVD, at least at the multiplexes.

That's not to say that Blu-Ray won't be a success in the end. It took DVD a very long while to become mainstream, at least 8 years, and that was only when players cost less than £100 and the media was on the "3 for £20" shelves.

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Problem, Solution - Solution, Problem.....

Most people are perfectly happy with the current DVD format. Blu-Ray appears to be yet another solution looking for a problem - a problem that the public just doesn't perceive that it has. There is also a danger that the public feels bombarded with different "new" technologies - to the point where they are simply switching off from the whole subject. Mos people are too busy going to work, worrying about the mortgage and whether they can feed the kids tonight to care if Blu-Ray gives a slightly better picture quality or not.

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Stop

That's because quality isn't the reason we left VHS

The tech industry seems too hung up on us wanted improved quality - that's rot and the rise of MP3 as a format has proved it.

Most punters went from tapes to DVDs because it was a much much more convenient product to use. Ditto from vinyl to CDs. The (questionable) quality improvement was a bonus.

Consumers have moved from CDs to MP3 for convenience of menu screens, despite the deterioration in sound quality

Blu Ray to DVD is what Vista is to XP. Unless you take away people's choice most won't see a reason to switch.

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Downloads

Have a long way to go before anyone serious about their home cinema will take notice. You still cant download a film in 1080p with a True HD soundtrack, the "best" so far is 720p with a stereo soundtrack.

Add to that that the number of people who are willing to have media centre type equipment in their lounge is even lower than the number who would be willing to have a second disc player and it makes downloads even less appealing.

And yes, before anyone suggests anything, I do have a BD player, I also have a media centre for streaming films and the former is far and away better than the latter.

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Anonymous Coward

Maybe Joe Public has wised up?

I for one try not to buy anything sony. The last good things to come out of that company were Betamax and Walkmans. Since that time all trading ethics have gone out of the window.

Forget capacity - HD DVD was an 'open' standard and therefore superior. Blueray is closed. Apple calling it difficult is the pot calling the kettle black. Yet another company with little or no ethics.

I hope Blueray dies a slow lingering death. Maybe...... just maybe.... it will teach sony a lesson.

As soon as I read about the demise of HD DVD I started buying HD DVD software for £2 a go for my laptop (basic spec had HD DVD dive). Ripped into x264 and stored on my AV server............

I am always ahead of the curve. Give it a few years and every connected household will contain a media server of one type or another and content will either be slow or fast streamed depending when the viewer wants to watch - this includes HD material.

My only hope is that DRM has also died a horrible death by then too.

AV Junkie.

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Gates Halo

a 'Bag of hurt'?

I think he's being too kind.

The less charitable amongst us could rightly call it a 'crock of shit'.

No doubt Mark will be along in a minute to tell us that we are all just bitter HD-DVD fanboys....

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Anonymous Coward

Haha -- AppleTV - Haha

As he runs the company which sells AppleTV he is intimately familiar with the fact that there is very little difference between properly upscaled good quality DVD running at the native screen resolution and Blue Ray. So nothing to gain there.

Also, there is still no way for consumers to move a Blue Ray asset onto AppleTV for watching (both legal or illegal). So lots to lose for pushing blu as it will destroy his target market for an entertainment network in the home where the consumer uploads once and watches anywhere without having to carry the physical media around.

So frankly, I am not surprised in the slightest. His position makes a lot of sense.

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Anonymous Coward

Poor Sony....

Perhaps they'll now realise that squashing the opposition with money isn't always a good idea. Actually beating them with the better tech would have been but they didn't. Consumers are still confused with the 1.0, 1.1, 2.0 firmware options and fact that the majority of players aren't upgradeable. Your average punter doesn't want to be messing about with firmware upgrades to be able to watch Rambo anyway.

Also cost is still a massive issue. Theres still no upgradable player in the region of £100 and yet you can buy an upscaling dvd player for about £30 or less so joe schmo still can't see why he should buy Blu.

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Jobs Halo

I'd agree with Jobs if everyone had fast broadband

" the "best" so far is 720p with a stereo soundtrack"

That's what I thought too, but I rented a HD movie off AppleTV last night and was surprised to find a Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack...

I'm fortunate to get an actual 16Mbps broadband connection where I live and the movie was ready to watch in less than 30 seconds and didn't skip a beat the whole way through.

With that quality (no 1080p matters not to me as fast moving movies don't benefit from it and it just takes longer to download) and fast broadband I can see it *is* the future. I certainly have no interest in BluRay.

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Gold badge

Re: ...quality isn't the reason we left VHS

"The (questionable) quality improvement was a bonus."

I think for the average punter, quality most definitely was a factor for CDs and DVDs. Most of us didn't have the kit to play vinyl or VHS at the technical limits of the medium. On the other hand, the step from DVD to HD (although clearly observable) somehow matters less. I, for example, recently upgraded my telly simply by wiping off all the snot left there by my small children. No-one is going to sell *me* HD anytime soon. (I realise this probably makes me rather odd amongst El Reg readers, but I think it might be typical of a fair proportion of the population.)

And yes, as an AC mentioned right at the start, Blu-Ray won't take off in the computer world until they start selling it. How hard is *that* to understand. ("It" in this case is a writer.)

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Unhappy

It's complexity and cost holding it back

DVDs are great and simple. Any DVD plays on any player, through any TV (region coding aside). Even without the BluRay/HD-DVD silliness consumers are confused by HD (720/1080, p/i) and the choice is not made easier by the variety of HD broadcast mechanisms which all cost too much for too little content.

Also, consumers are out of the habit of buying physical media. Look at a typical high-street retailer (Zavvi, HMV, etc.). The space that was used almost exclusively for CDs a few years ago is now used to sell CDs, DVDs, BluRay, Console games, accessories, t-shirts, posters, mobile phones. The only time most people buy physical product is through bargain websites and when they're £3.99 in Tescos.

Until I can get a reasonable blu-ray player for under £100 (to try out the technology) and media for less than a tenner, I'm holding on.

T

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Anonymous Coward

Nothing to do with

Blu-Ray's low uptake rates certainly don't have anything to do with a near total absence of decent movies being produced. I haven't purchased a copy of ANY movie for more than 3 years. I haven't been pirating them either, I'm just not interested.

Also, sony kinda shot themselves in the foot by letting the PS3 upscale SD content from DVD. Why would I pay more for a BD, when the PS3 will upscale the cheaper disks for me?

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Anonymous Coward

Great News

The scum at Sony deserve everything they get.

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Jobs Halo

Pro vs Consumer

That is the main difference here, not the licensing costs of the Blu-Ray format. Pro users want the capability to have lots of audio/video data to use on their machines and to be able to share it around amongst each other. For this they have firewire drives, network drives at work etc etc etc, and the macbookpro still has firewire 800, as does the macpro and the imac. Yes there may be some that want to archive it to Blu-Ray or want to ship something to a customer in Blu-Ray format - but media shops will have some kind of external functionality to do that, and those will be few in number.

Consumers want to watch Blu-Ray/HD movies. So Apple has made their choice for them. Consumers cannot buy an HD movie in a physical format, which they can watch a year from now or however frequently between, share with their friends, sell on to someone else. Instead, everyone is forced down the route of buying another piece of kit (apple-tv) and then "renting" films, which if they feel like watching again six months from now...they have to "rent" again.

If you have an HD-TV, live in a fast broadband area and can get fast broadband (don't forget the market in Europe, Asia, and soon US is going to get multi-megabit downloads via Fibre....Virgin UK) queue-time will hopefully be removed as an issue. You then buy an apple-tv device, connect it to your router, and can watch things on your tv or on your laptop over their N-speed wireless etc etc etc.

Apple is trying to do with the consumer macs, what is has successfully done with consumer ipods, create and dominate in content delivery to consumers. They are ahead of the game in simple-to-use devices in this respect. It's better to sell tens of thousands of devices which then enable you to get extra revenue from consumers by selling them value-add services - like movie rental - than it is to maybe sell a few thousand more macs based purely on the fact they have Blu-ray. Let's face it, no-one is going to buy a mac because it has a blu-ray player are they?

In this way, they create and extend the market for music, movies, and more all delivered through iTunes/apple-tv interfaces. Then when mass-market adoption of movie rental over net becomes a reality, they can say they have the most integrated mechanism for delivering it...at which point they will probably bung a new 100GB version of Blu-ray writer in their machine so that the consumer can "own" the content - same as they do with putting music onto CD now via itunes.

It's all about the long game for apple, create the content and they will come to the platform!!

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Jobs Horns

iTunes

"Indeed, Jobs' lieutenant, Phil Schiller, was quick to say that iTunes is Apple's HD content platform."

Because we all want to download their DRM-riddled crap. And downloading HD content shouldn't really become mainstream, not with the way ISPs are currently acting.

I think that there IS a demand for Blu-Ray disc drives. Apple could make it an optional extra at least.

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re: loser ...

"What loser watches movies on their desktop."

That would be me, I guess.

Standard DVDs look good enough on my 22" WS monitor - I doubt I'd see much

difference from a BD drive.

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Maybe it's just me

I live in a very rich part of the world. Most people I know earn £40k+ and a lot of them are tech-savvy 30 somethings. In other words, my friends and I are the target market for BluRay. I don't know a single person who owns a BluRay player. Okay, I know one person who owns a PS3 but that was bought for the latest version of singstar and buzz, they don't own any BluRay discs. I also know one person who went out and bought a HD-DVD player and a shit load of discs just after that format went tits up.

I don't know why, but people don't want BluRay!

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@ AC claiming HD-DVD was open

No it wasn't. You, like most the other pro HD-DVD people misquote some very key facts. HD-DVD had region protection, DRM and the equivalent of changing profiles embedded in the disc spec. They simply didn't switch the region protection on to start with which happened to give the impression it wasn't a factor. Then the HD-DVD consortium never actually corrected people when they claimed no region protection. The discs also had DRM virtually identical to that in Blu-Ray, but they never fully enabled it because again, they were happy for the public to get the wrong impression.

And also, if you read the specs of a lot of HD-DVD players with ethernet ports they were for "over the air delivery of content and firmware upgrades" when the disc profiles changed. Be very sure about it, there were disc profiles for HD-DVD, they just never got chance to update and change it because the format was killed. Also be sure of the fact that had the format survived, a profile upgrade was planned for the higher capacity layered discs and over the air bonus content delivery.

Read some specialist press and find the FULL HD-DVD format technical specs you ill informed idiot. I'm not pro BR either (I bought HD-DVD!), I simply am aware of some key facts about what HD-DVD was really about and it bugs the shit out of me when people make such stupid statements when the real facts are so easy to find.

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Unhappy

Stephen Usher has it spot on

When Blu-Ray stops acting like such a c**t, we'll buy it.

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Pirate

USB HDD

At the moment it is cheaper to buy USB HDD's than to buy a BluRay writer and the equivalent storage writable disks.

I see BluRay and HD-DVD as a last desperate attempt to persuade everyone to buy their movies on YET ANOTHER medium, before it all becomes just stored data. For those who don't understand, most people call it a CON!

Most people just don't have that much data on their PC's to need that kind of archiving capability so IMHO BluRay will stay expensive due to low volumes right up to when it is replaced with S-RAM or Super-Flash or whatever it will be called.

BluRay, the last gasp of the optical medium>?

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Anonymous Coward

lolfail

Gotta laugh at Sony.

They gambled on people wanting the PS3 so much they'd be willing to pay the high price of Bluray and Cell to use it as a vessel to decrease the price of these technologies for their other business areas.

They didn't gamble on the Wii and the 360 being runaway successes in comparison to the PS3 being absolute last place. But then things changed, the PS3 started beating the 360 ever so slightly on weekly sales, they won the format war, Bluray was king and it was looking up again.

But then as it turns out no one still wanted Bluray, no one still wanted the PS3 and it has once again slipped far behind in terms of weekly sales of software and hardware leaving it's clear last place position an ever increasing distance behind the 360 and PS3. With it's major exclusive, Final Fantasy XIII lost despite Sony owning a 17% stake in Square Enix, with PS3 dropping even further into last place, with it having such horrifically low software sales figures to the point they can't even make up for the loss on hardware sales and with Bluray sales on the decrease one has to wonder if it's perhaps time that Sony took a hint from Toshiba's book and dropped out of the high definition market before their company which is already heavily in the red hemorrages even more cash without anything up and coming to change the game for them.

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Too expensive.

I'd be happy to adopt Blu-Ray, but not until they're *at least* half the price they are at present. Currently they're far too expensive and not good value for money.

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Blue Ray will not take off until ...

... a majority of the population have HD TV sets. Anyone with a CRT TV and a DVD player can still watch great quality movies. You only notice a differnce when yoy upgrade to a HD set and even then, a DVD still looks very good.

As I still own a good 32in Sony and a huge DVD collection (a lot of which I used to own on VHS), I do not feel compelled to buy into Blu-Ray. I suspect many others feel the same.

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Stop

@Maybe it's just me

Curiously, how many of your friends have a 1080p HDTV ?

Without HD content I won't go and buy a HDTV, my 32inch widescreen CRT does me just fine and I hope it'll last a couple more years. By then, Blu Ray will be cost effective, I doubt by then BT's 21CN FTTK (let alone FTTH) will be rolled out to even 1% of the population so downloading HD content will still be a pipe-dream. For broadcast, I'll opt for HD Freesat (I won't give the Dirty Digger any of my money).

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Backup plan

Certainly the need for Blu-Ray as a backup medium is pretty much gone. Compare storage costs:

DVD-ROM - approx 5-10p per Gb

USB Hard Drive - approx 10-20p per Gb

BR-RAM - 25-50p per Gb

Obviously BR-ROM prices will drop significantly, but it has a long way to go to catch up with other storage methods (esp considering how quickly HD prices are dropping). If you want to save messing around with all those DVD-ROM disks, go for a 1Tb USB drive, if you want to stick with disks, you probably still want to be able to play the movies you've backed up on a DVD player, so the higher capacity of BR isn't a benifit.

BR is just an improvement on an existing technology, and the only people who want it are those who will notice the improvement. At the moment, this is basically just people with big 1080p TV sets. Both CD and DVD allowed the consumer to gain significant quality improvements whilst being able to use most of their existing AV equipment. All you needed was a DVD player to go wth your old TV, or a CD player to go with your old amplifier set-up. BR requires the buying of a whole new TV, so has a much higher entry cost than CD or DVD ever did.

The race is on between the spread of fibre broadband and big 1080p TVs to see whether BR or downloaded content dominates the market. As we all know broadband will get there sooner or later, the sensible consumer will probably just hold out and ignore BR.

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Coat

It's a shame...

Wouldn't it be nice if we could have articles about BRD occasionally *without* the games console and HD media format zealots crawling out of the woodwork?

How do you even *become* a fanboy of a particular HD disc format? Do people have nothing better to do with their lives than become emotionally attached to a specification set down by a bunch of companies that want to make money out of them? The mind boggles.

Mine's the one with the HDDVD player in the left pocket and the BRD player in the right pocket, and the 360, PS3 and Wii in the inside pockets. Yeah, the heavy one. :(

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Tim
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Oh Really Steve Jobs? what else should I be thinking?

I hate Jobs. He is such a retard. I like Bluray. i like that it is a non-enforced option on the PS3 (it plays DVD too and will also play downloaded content), but i like having a disc in my hand that can play HD content. Now Eff off jobs and leave us Non-Apple people to do what we want without interference from you!

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Pirate

flash alternative?

How far are we from 25GB flash devices (or plain old fashion ROMs) that would cost less than BR and take less physical room? Surely discs are old fashion for distributing digital content? Thanks to "AnyDVD HD" I can safely continue buying content. Otherwise I would have been forced to pirate the lot. (my 30" Apple monitor does not support DRM...)

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Gates Halo

A title,

Cooor, the microshills must have struggled over this one

do they hate high definition more than they hate steve jobs? looks that way

blu ray is just a method to get 50gb into your front room, and in most cases its faster nipping into town to buy the disc than it is waiting for the download, for a lot of people its quicker waiting for an amazon delivery

but anyhow jobs could have kicked blu ray into touch but he didn't he left it nicely open for a snow leopard release especially putting in a hdcp compliant connector and saying its the best medium to watch movies in.

at least he's not as stupid as microsoft's xbox guy who says high definition is not needed and then tries to sell you a high definition device...doh!

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We want BD

I hate Apple for this, been waiting for Apple to support BD Play. So i could kick the PC and get an Apple and an Apple Air. Now i'm forced to stay were i am, on winblows.

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Silver badge

Buying physical media

"The only time most people buy physical product is through bargain websites and when they're £3.99 in Tescos."

Speak for yourself. Why would I want to download dodgy quality mp3s from a website which I'll have to back up myself onto a blank CD or USB stick (which also cost money!) and have to give my credit card details to boot, when I can go to a shop and buy a CD for cash? Jesus , if you can't afford a tenner or less for a CD you're either skint or tight or both, in which case why are you on a forum about new media anyway? Also like a lot of people I find browsing a record shop much more pleasant than browsing endless websites.

As for downloading a DVD , gimme a break. I've better things to waste my bandwidth and 4 hours of my life on when I can walk down to blockbuster and buy a DVD in 10 minutes.

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HD-DVDs ARE region free

"HD-DVD had indicated the possibility of, but never announced a specific Region Coding for its format. As a result, HD-DVD disc titles were never region coded."

I have just read the white paper on the HD-DVD spec and it never mentions region coding, at all.

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Gates Horns

Microsoft paid shills are upto their usual FUD tactics.

"Consumers are still confused with the 1.0, 1.1, 2.0 firmware options and fact that the majority of players aren't upgradeable."

LOL, 99.9% of Blu-ray players ARE upgradable, and already are, at the final Profile 2.0

Honestly, does ANYONE believe the tripe that the Xbox fanboys/HD DVD losers post here?

I find it hillarious that people claim they can't see the difference between updated SD and proper Blu-ray HD. Are you seriously saying these look the same to you?

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/1212127-post280.html

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Anonymous Coward

Two points

First. Steve Jobs, his company and products can fuck off and go to hell.

Second. As pointed out by other posters upscaling is the way many are going. I have a PS3 and its ironic that the upscaling capability it has makes my existing DVD collection look bastard brilliant. So much so that I don't intend to buy any BR titles. Well that plus the 8 quid on top of a conventional DVD price!

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Stop

We need a resolution

I think people can't see the benefit of HD until they have HD.

'Upscaled DVD is as good as HD'? Please, it's a good picture but it's no comparison. Personally, I decide on a case by case basis whether to get the blu-ray or DVD version.

Sky run ads where they show HD as being the same thing, only slower, which isn't what they mean and it doesn't make anyone want to buy it.

As far as I know, no-one the general public are likely to see has ever said (making-up numbers here) "HD is 100% higher resolution that SD, here's what your SD picture looks like at 50% resolution, see the difference?"

People generally don't care about politics, DRM, ethics, etc. they care about how much it costs and what they get for their money (quality / convenience / street cred. / whatever their hot button is. So far, no HD service has made a compelling argument.

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@AC @ 10.11

You, sir, are an idiot.

Console sales of the 360 and PS3, world-wide, are broadly the same - MS sells most of it's stock in North America and Sony in Japan, in Europe both formats have sold broadly the same amount. Both formats pale into insignificance compared to the unit sales that Nintendo have with the Wii.

According to data released regarding sales of both BD players and media, they are both better than at the same point in DVD's life-span and increasing.

@everyone complaining about the price

I can only assume none of you were involved in DVD in the early days. I was, I paid ~£500 for a multi-region DVD player, at a time when most had never even heard of the format. Disks were typically £15-20, even imported from the US when we had $2 to the pound.

10 years on and BD players are now sub £200 (there are two that can be got for ~£160) for profile 2.0 players and you can get disks for under £10 (admittedly, a lot of the films in question are utter shite) and new releases can be bought for a not very significant premium over their DVD counter-part.

Finally, as another has pointed out, HD-DVD was no more open than the DVD format, it was even owned/run by the same DVD Forum. BD is owned/run by the BD Association. It's for this very reason that China has come up with it's own HD format, as they didn't want to pay the licensing fee's involved.

It should always also be remembered that regional coding and HDCP DRM are both in existence because of the movie studios - do you honestly believe that a hardware manufacturer wants the additional hassle of adding in chips for all this stuff ? If you want to point your ire and vitriol at someone, at least make it the right group of people.

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at the blu-ray haters

if you cant see a MASSIVE increase over upscaled content either get new eyes or throw away that shitty cheap ass TV. if you have decent TV (1080p) 24fps dropdown (on decent tvs) and hdmi 1.3 you will see a MASSIVE difference - as well as hearing a noticable increase in sound quality and depth.

the problem is too many people are using BR on crap equipment. you can get new BR movies for £15 now - as opposed to ~£10 for a dvd. for films like transformers there is a massive difference over the dvd!

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Maybe...

he was thinking of his other Apple products when he said "bag of hurt". Sorry, my mistake that's "bag of shite"

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re: lolfail

"They didn't gamble on the Wii and the 360 being runaway successes in comparison to the PS3"

Hang on, the 360 is very close to losing it's lead, despite it launching 18months before the PS3. In other words, PS3 = 18m 360 = 21m consoles.. That's not a runaway success, that's abysmal 360 sales over the last 18months allowing PS3 to all but close that gap.

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CD->VCD->DVD->BluRay

For the same reason that nobody (important) bothers with SACD, CD is 'more than sufficient', nobody (important) can tell the difference between SACD and CD and even if you could it doesn't make bad songs good, VCD was not good enough, DVD is more than good enough, even a good quality 700Mb DivX is fine on my upscaled 37" TV, the point is a rubbish film won't become a good one on BluRay and good film will be enjoyable *even with artifacts*.

It's also not a good general storage medium, with a 1Tb harddrive less than £70, BluRay is just a gimmick.

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Jobs Horns

A word of advice, Mr. Jobs ...

>"We're waiting till things settle down and Blu-ray takes off in the marketplace."

..don't hold your breath while you're waiting. Particularly not in your current state of health!

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Boffin

Download Limits

It's all well and good to say that the future of movies is via streaming, but for a lot of people that is not an option thanks to their ISP's. Yes, the bandwidth is there, but the ISP's are putting a cap on what one can download. After streaming a couple of movies, you will be close to reaching your limit, if you haven't already exceeded it.

Personally, I like having a physical copy that I can watch anytime without having to pay again to do so. I have an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray combo drive in my computer that I found onsale for over half the cost it normally would. I have watched one HD-DVD and one Blu-Ray on it, on my 22in WS monitor connected via DVI to my computer. Yes, it looked nice, but not enough to warrant paying up to three times the cost of a regular DVD which also looks good on my set up. Also, when I go to rent a movie, there are maybe 24 Blu-Ray available compared to the hundreds of regular DVD's. Not all of the new releases are available in Blu-Ray either.

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Ditto Too Expensive

I was in the market for a new DVD machine, and was dead keen on a BR player, until I scoped the prices of the discs - £25 for a movie??! F*ck that! I bought a DVD recorder instead - I might consider BR when the discs are £3-5 in Tescos. Until then, no chance.

The mass market (including me) have got used to films being available for 3-5 quid in Tescos, if you wait long enough, but the movie vendors have not yet realised that the world has moved on - DVD movies are ripped to internet sites within days of release and are available for nothing - the era of being able to charge whatever they liked for a new format is gone, given that most people can't see any great difference from an upscaled DVD (or downloaded rip)

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Price

I can buy a DVD burner for £15 but a BD burner is £120.

Blank DVDs work out at about 15p each, even dual layer are little over 50p each, but a single BD disk is 6 or 7 pounds each!

They will be cheap one day but until then, I simply can't afford to go Blu-Ray.

Refusing to put a BD drive in your machines is not going to help drive the cost down and increase consumer demand!

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