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back to article Thousands more City workers to lose jobs, says CBI

The Confederation of British Industry (CBI) warned today that thousands of City jobs in the UK are set to be lost over the next three months. Tumbling profitability, a slowdown in business negotiations in Blighty’s struggling financial services sector and a major dip in confidence about the current turbulent market conditions …

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IT Angle

How sad

Couldn't happen to nicer people.....

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Genius

I also predict that next time it rains some people will get wet.

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Happy

Banks No Longer Safe as Houses ?

Actually, they are as safe as houses. Houses aren't safe either.

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Anonymous Coward

By the power of GreySkull

oh they had their little reign, I say we move back to a precious metal backed currency, and make it illegal to leverage extra receipts on deposit, which it should already be.

We restructure so that the UK is not dependent on imports (especially for food), and get back to producing things which the retail sector can sell.

And there is the limit on the amount of land an individual or a company can own, and that limit is enforced by super high taxes, so we never ever get a land bubble again. See that money could have been used to fuel real trade, instead it got locked into loans and false value.

The real value is always in items, and the ability to produce or trade those items effectively, everything else is a con. And we should also make it illegal to use servants, and that includes creches, if you want children then you need to be in a strong enough financial position to support them and not rely on the hard work of others. And if it requires one of the breeders to stay at home then so be it.

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screwed

The economy is screwed. The only thing I can see them doing is lowering taxes to give us more disposible income, so we spend moe

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Anonymous Coward

@how sad

Banks have been known, on occasion, to use IT systems. A lot of the jobs to go will be branch floor staff (or branch monkeys as they are affectionately referred to here in IT) but there will be a significant number of cuts in the IT departments too. Any projects not deemed essential will be cut and it will be back to just day to day maintanance rather than any innovation (yes, banks do have innovative new software running alongside the 20-30 year old systems)

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Dan

@AC

If your radical no servant idea was a way to eliminate Chavs, then I will at least respect its intention. However I think it is more likely to result in a generation of well off children unwilling to dirty themselves by making “things the retail sector can sell”

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Anonymous Coward

@How Sad

"Couldn't happen to nicer people....."?

Thanks for that, mate. Am I one of those "nice people"?

Whilst you might well be annoyed with the Bankers themselves, what about those of us who work in Banking but are not *evil bankers*.

So that would be me then.

Who has already been given warning that my job won't be here next month.

Fuck you, you self-centred, insular, selfish twat.

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Flame

Do not go gently....

Fight to protect your jobs, take advantage of the fact that you can access your bosses' current account, hold equipment as security against your wages being paid.

The possibilities for revenge are endless. Just don't expect solidarity (and less sympathy) from your cleaners who you never paid a living wage to, or those of us who got canned first.

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Anonymous Coward

@@How sad

Sort of reminds me of the contractors working on the Death Star argument.

Sure, if you were part of the build team for the first bank, then commiserations, but of course you weren't.

So you must realise that banks are bad news for everyone else not involved with the bank profits, yes? i.e. banks don't help economies they help themselves via the economy and take from it, without putting anything of real value into it.

So you were involved in an organisation that revolves around taking and owning, not producing, not creating just taking and owning, and you think others should be sorry for you?

Well, well, who is the self-centred, insular, selfish twat now? (n.b. I am not the same person you flung that comment at).

It does beggar belief that bankers and their cohorts believe that others owe them anything, what have they done, nothing is the answer, just a bunch of gamblers with other peoples' assets. Well the jig is up for the moment, and it is our moment to crow about how we told you so. Leverage at 35 times holdings who on earth thinks that move is sustainable.

But you know what really amuses me, is that the best players in this game are the one's trading right now.

And don't fret too much, in a year or so the game will back on, and you can go cohort back into it again, sure you may have lost a house and a car but the market can go down as well as up, now can't it.

And wait until the patent hounds get a caning, that is the next in line to have the bubble burst, not only do that lot just take and not produce, they also hinder innovation and keep the human race from evolving, yes if anyone is hated more than bankers it is the patent lot.

See patents will either be shortened reducing their perceived value, or they will be limited to what they were intended to do in the first place, protect the small inventor, not the great big clumsy corps. At which point that market will implode.

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Sam

@@@Re How sad

You did nothing except leech off the backs of people who actually work for a living. and when the leech ratio goes too high, there is a crunch.

Want to know who's responsible for your predicament? Find a mirror.

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Anonymous Coward

@ac 1711

Many banks/financial companies in the UK, particularly noteable being Pru, Coop Bank and RBOS/Natwest give millions of pounds to charity every year, matching and doubling/trebling the amounts that their staff give. They help out in the communities that they operate in. There are many banks that never operated in sub-prime as a matter of principle. So, to tar all with the same brush is ignorant in the extreme.

Communities and charities will suffer alongside anyone made redundant - if I am made redundant from my job, there goes the hundred or-so quid a month my chosen charity gets. The people from my office who volunteer helping kids to learn to read, funded by the bank, they will stop doing that if they loose their jobs. The envrionmental projects that the bank's staff work on will stop. As will the community clean-ups, etc. etc.

So, to suggest that anyone working for a bank is in a morraly indifencible position and that banks are all 'bad' is an obsurdly simplistic mindset that suggests no real understanding of the subject in hand.

(AC, because I have worked in IT for the above companies and I also don't crow about giving money to charity)

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Thumb Up

@@@How sad @ 15:23

You clearly are one of those "nice people" - thanks for reinforcing my point.

As for self-centered and selfish, take a look in the mirror. You may actually have to go and work for a company that produces something!

Good luck in the job search....

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Coat

What can we invest in then

Look every bank with 'Mortgage' backed assets cant sell em, why?

Property not worth a toss, and when johnny consumer goes titsup and files for bankruptcy the old saying 'Your house may be at risk' means sod all.

Think about it.

1. You cant pay anyone

2. Your house is worth less than your mortgage

Your best bet is to go bankrupt and rent

The banks KNOW this, thats why at the beginning of the shit (NOW) their trying to 'pass the jobby).

If your a bit thick then hold onto your house and get into lots of debt, hoping it will fix itself soon.

Now those banks need soimething to invest in, not houses (Bricks)

So they get rid of staff.

We dont produce anything in the UK as were a 'service' industry and until lateley the joke was:

1. We dont make cars

2. We dont invest in science

3. We dont own our own utilities

4. Our children will have jobs in banking or answering phones

5. We can always sell houses to each other

Now that (5) is no longer valid, the whole deck collapses

(Cough!)

The Americans know this, thus they will NEVER bail out $700bn (Lehman (Cough!))

Here in the UK we will loose jobs

The value of flats will plummet

House builders and anyone in that chain (Lawyers etc) will go titsup

We will need to find something to sell (Not land)

This will result in those who produce, getting the big £, you know the folk you sods outsourced!

Paybacks a bitch :)

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Anonymous Coward

re@@ac 1711

When you're making hundreds of millions, or singular billions every quarter, then it's easy to give a few titbits to charity. I would be more impressed and might even feel sorry for the banks if you'd have said that regardless of what our employees donate, we will donate 1/3rd of our profits to charity, as it stands they gave 1/3rd in bonuses to the same select few, 1/3rd to shareholders(fair enough), and cooked the other 1/3rd as writeoffs against bad loans(sic) for tax purposes, and now expect the same tax man they cheated to bail them out so they can bump start the gravy train again.

I have little sympathy for the bankers on these grounds alone. Greed is greed whatever colour you paint it. Reckless lending and borrowing has caused this and the associated problems. Put simply, when I go shopping, I buy what I can afford. If I use my credit card I expect to get hammered at the end of the month for excess interest. Simply home spun economics yes, shame the likes of the banks and financial institutions don't or hav'nt realised this until now. These people have caused the problems, let them fix their own houses. Thy're soon enough to repossess your house when you default, let those that live by the sword die by the sword.

A few less of these w(b)ankers around the better.

AND yes I do realise that this will affect a lot of people in different ways. Look at it like this, when you go bankrupt then all the creditors are forced to wait or accept maybe 1-10% of the value. If you've got a mortgage or a big loan, start praying your bank goes under before you do. It's a win win situation all round if you look at it the right way.

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Flame

@ ACs everywhere

Hmm. I'm wondering about all these ACs who are so unsympathetic about people who work in Banks losing their jobs. I wonder where /they/ work?

Perhaps they work in retail, whose use of misleading advertising, store credit, etc, etc has led to consumers over-stretching themselves on credit.

Perhaps the work for the oil or motor industry?

Maybe the work in telecoms, who use outsourced workforces for many of their products.

Perhaps they freelance and contract for all of the above?

Or maybe they work in the public sector; whose WAGES ARE PAID BY ALL OF THE ABOVE.

Maybe they even work for the government who failed to act quickly enough to start all this?

Perhaps a few these anons can come forward, and tell us which whiter that white industry sector they work in? I'm guessing that won't be happening though...

@AC 15:23 - Sorry to hear about your predicament :(

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Paris Hilton

Mortgage win win? Don't think so.

"If you've got a mortgage or a big loan, start praying your bank goes under before you do. It's a win win situation all round if you look at it the right way."

Hmm. Not so sure you've thought this through. You do realise that if this happens, YOUR HOUSE is one of the assets of the bank, which will need to be liquified (i.e. settled in full or sold on) during the winding up of the bank's operations?

You'd better pray you don't invalidate your mortgage agreement in any way... like having an income other that the one stated on your application, missing a payment or two, or taking a lodger. The liquidators could be looking for any excuse to foreclose on your loan.

(A US perspective here: http://blog.midlandfunding.net/2008/07/12/what-happens-if-my-mortgage-bank-goes-out-of-business-what-does-it-mean-to-me/)

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Flame

@ Anonymous Coward Posted Monday 29th September 2008 15:23 GMT

I am very sorry you have just been handed your notice friend... it's the workers who get dropped first, not the managers [who are ultimately responsible], but your spurious flames at a valid comment is no way to ingratiate yourself here. The phrase "self-centred, insular, selfish twat" is considerably more relevant to yourself than the author you directed it at.

Truth is, banks MAKE nothing, commit usury and then gamble on the profits derived from charging excessive interest. One wonders however, had all these greedy banking executives retained only modest salaries instead of constantly pocketing annual £million bonuses, how much of a black hole would still exist in the financial sector.

Oh, and while we are on the subject of lost jobs... this fuckup by the banking industry has destroyed the housing market which in turn has halted almost all expenditure on newbuilds (requiring land surveys), mill conversions (requiring asbestos surveys) and commercial upgrades (requiring management programs) and thus, whilst you sit there mourning the demise of your lucrative little gravy train spare a thought for people like me who actually do something constructive and socially beneficial with their lives and who are ALSO fucked. Difference is, I can point my finger at someone else and say, "J'accuse, tu merde".

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Thumb Up

@ Matt Bradley

Well, not having been part of the comments above, I would just like to say I work in a University. This would possibly be the whiter than white sector you asked about? Education.

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re@AC s everywhere

You are right, and you're wrong, not only this topic has ac's, all the topics have ac's, it is an option of the system for posting comments. Are you refering only to this post because you are one of the "fat cats" about to loose their xmillions pound income for fleecing us mere mortals who entrust our lives to your fiscal ineptitude?

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The rise of the (self) righteous

Uh oh. It's starting to turn into "Have your Say" around here... It's becoming increasingly difficult to tell the Daily Mail readers from the Morning Star readers. United at last.

Yeah bankers are evil ! They eat babies you know ! Without paying for them ! Or cleaning up afterwards !

At least we haven't got any posts all in capitals yet.

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@Louis, @Neal

@ Louis: Not entirely. Didn't those bankers pay your salary with their taxes?

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that this financial system is all interconnected, and we're all part of the problem. Finger pointing and name calling is best left in the school playground.

@Neal: Nope - I'm just a humble freelancer.

But I do have sympathy for ANYBODY who finds themselves out of a job as a result of this mess.

Most of us here will have enjoyed a couple of real "boom" years recently, but we all knew it couldn't last. I guess its the suddenness of the collapse that's caught us a little by surprise. If we find ourselves in difficulty over the next 12 months, perhaps we should look at our own PERSONAL lack of prudence in overstretching ourselves financially in an artificial bubble.

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Anonymous Coward

Matt Bradley, re various

As obviously the American model is far superior in every to any model that has ever been thought of or will be thought of, I have no need to refer to link posted by you regarding the situation of Sceptics, on the other hand being an inferior pom and having to be subject to the inferior British democracy which is but a poodle to the US, as long as I don't default on my mortgage, or violate it's terms, then the welfare state to which I pay umpteen $$$$$$$$$ every month will in, times of crisis as specified by the last negative equity fiasco disaster (housing bubble under Thatcher, by the way a slightly less militant version of any American I've ever met), then the state will aid me in my efforts to protect whatever is left of what the banks haven't f+++++ away.

Of course, this is in way going to help me save my house if the banks have already sold my mortgage on to an American bank, who have absolutely no regard for any international law and are in fact a law unto them selves, I even remember hearing, but I can't back it up or prve it, that the Federal Reserve is in fact a fraudulent entity under the terms of the American Constitution. What I can do though is this.

My mortgage is negotiated with Xname bank in UNITED KINGDOM. My name is signed to that mortgage with that specified bank being the lender. If that bank sells my mortgage on, that is their problem. In the UK we sign credit agreements with specified terms, unlike the US, where you may sign with FannyMae, but end up mortgaged to a colubian drug cartel, or even worse a left wing South American (in yankee terms) dictator.

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@AC 11:58

Just for the record here folks: I'm English, living and working in England and I don't work for a financial institution of any kind.

On a personal level, I'm inclined to agree with what you've said there AC: If anything, I think when we are looking for somebody to blame for this crisis, we might look to the millions of voters who re-elected George Bush at the last US election.

As regards mortgage security in the UK. I'm glad we live in a country which hasn't bought into the idea that everything can be solved by markets, and that the divine flow of money through unfettered capitalism is inviolate.

I think you rather missed my point about credit agreements, though. Credit agreements have binding terms, and in times of hardship, financial institutions are going to be much more stringent about enforcing those terms. If your mortgage lender goes under, one of things they might look to do to liquidate assets COULD BE to foreclose on borrowers who have violated their terms. I don't imagine that there would be much the welfare state could do about that, unless it is willing to underwrite the mortgage of every household in the UK.

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Stop

Meantime Bank directors still get paid

Directors are still being paid for letting this happen.. this has to stop, or they will never learn

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