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back to article Danish court jails six in terror T-shirts case

A Danish court jailed five people for selling T-shirts to finance Palestinian and Colombian ‘terror’ organizations yesterday, suggesting the wrong clothing choice could land you in a orange jump suit in the future. Defence lawyers for the T-shirt floggers said they would appeal the decision, all the way to Europe if necessary. …

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Dead Vulture

Guilty of what, exactly?

This article's a bit confused - the title and most of the text is eager to decry the terrible freedom of speech violations implicit in banging poor salespeople up for flogging the wrong T-shirts.

But the opening sentence says "for selling T-shirts to finance Palestinian and Columbian ‘terror’ organizations", and the closing one "seized [cash], along with their remaining stock, before it could be sent to the cause(s)".

Looks to me like the T-shirts and their messages are a red herring which the author's keen to wave under our noses. From the details in the top and tail actual offence was financing terrorists (or maybe just kidnappers and drug dealers, which would be /sooo/ much better) - whether they were selling T-shirts, placards or oranges to do so isn't a core issue.

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Silver badge

How many Danes?

Have T-shirts with that Che Guevara picture?

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Che

Does that mean I am going to have to retire my Che Guevara t-shirt? I suppose I will have to buy the el reg bofh shirt to show that I am still a rebel.

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Anonymous Coward

Wonderful

Brilliant news. Why would anyone want to help people who kill wantonly?

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Coat

Denmark eh?

Is this the same country that would defend it's right to offend billions of people by printing images of Muhammed, then chucks people in jail for selling t-shirts? lol, not as simple as that I'm sure but still, there's a double standard hiding in there somewhere.

Mine's the one with Kjaer on the back.

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Silver badge

Poor little chic revolutionaries!

Let's see, it's the law, but it doesn't apply to you because you are somehow able to judge which terror groups are REAL terror groups and which ones are just misunerstood? I'm betting your differnetiator was that the REAL terror groups are all right-wing, and anyone who just happens to kill whilst having the words "socialist", "poeples" or "democratic" (and just happens to be slightly left of Mao Tse Tung) is just misunderstood.

Mind you, clueless chic starts far higher up the foodchain. Cameron DIaz got in trouble recently for visiting Peru with a fashinable little bag with a Chinese red star and a Mao's fave slogan "Serve the poeple" in Chinese characters. This didn't go down too well with the Peruvians who suffered years of "misunderstood socialist/revolutionary/democratic" murdering by the Shining Path, a heavily Chinese-backed guerilla group. Diaz's defense boiled down to "sorry, I'm just too thick to check what's written on clothes my fashionista buddies tell me to wear, and whom are these Shining guys anyway?" Maybe the Danish twits should be released early if they agree to spend a period helping in the hospitals in Columbia dealing with the FARC victims. I'm not mean enough to suggest we send them to Gaza to see the reality of the Palestinian mess.

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Leftover Nazi

Last time I visted Copenhagen, I saw bunch of Danish youth terrorising some colored people who came via Oresund Bridge. Cops saw what was happening to Swedish citizen but did nothing to stop it. If you are non-white then you'll be arrested just by having a skin of a "terrorist". Go figure.

I'll past a comment made by one of my friends in Denmark.

"I myself am a Jew. My mother is Danish, Jewish of origin, 4th generation immigrant from Russia/Poland. My father is an Israeli, Yemenite Jew of origin. I'm quite dark skinned, and as so could go for being an Arab (Muslim).

The last couple of years I personally have felt how racism can strike you like a sledgehammer. I am constantly reminded that I'm different, by comments from people. Few days ago a lady looked at me in the street a said to me "you are all the same", not knowing that I was Jewish.

So I quite understand the frustration of Muslims in Denmark. It is obvious that they are not welcome. Or you may say that many Danes judge people by their color, as seen in my example. It is becoming more and more acceptable both among Danish politicians and by the public, to make statements that are thoroughly encompassed by racistic means.

I believe that if this will continue and racism towards Muslims or for that sake any dark skinned groups in this country, it could create such radicalism, both among Danes but also among Muslims, that could lead to heavy violence. This is surely not the way to integrate people, but a way to create segregation, and undermine the present welfare state. The Danish politicians should think about that. As a Jew and in my case dark skinned person, I therefore truly understand what it means to be stigmatized, and considered to be "like all of them", and can understand why deep hate are created among different cultural groups, and what this can do to a society, Danes should think about that."

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Any rating you like, as long as it's good?

Hmmm - made a not very complimentary comment on this article earlier, and at the same time gave it a rating of 2. Previously it had no ratings at all, so red down arrow appears.

Come back to check whether comment's up, and find "One rating" and an upwards green arrow. Odd. Re-rate at 2, text updates to "2 ratings" and arrow changes to horizontal and yellow.

Come back again, back to "one rating" and green.

Nothing but praise for El Reg, it seems!

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Unhappy

Sorry about the bigotry

Everybody's freedom fighter is someone else's terrorist. It all depends on which side of the fence you happen to be on and at what time in history (and who gets to write the history books).

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Anonymous Coward

@Matt Bryant

We have lists in Northern Ireland of which are the real terror groups, which are no longer a threat, which are pretending to be a threat but can only set themselves on fire, and which are in the government. A commission reports a couple of times a year on which are still active.

Can' t Denmark do the same?

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Pirate

u wot

"Brilliant news. Why would anyone want to help people who kill wantonly?"

The Americans?

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Thumb Down

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark...

The first poster asked a question I'd like the answer to as well - were they actually sending cold hard moolah to FARC et. al, or were they just running a (stupid) business?

It's always odd to me as an american that there are places in Europe where it's socially acceptable for people to randomly yell obscenities at strangers for being the wrong color. I mean.. in the US, we have our share of bigots, but the non-bigots among us are at least a large enough population to make sure that nobody would even think about going around shooting his mouth off like that.

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Flame

Hosting & hot dogs...

So you can get 60 days in prison for making a bad judgment call as far as who to let use space on your server, but physically selling these from a hot dog stand was OK?

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Paris Hilton

Better Reporting Please

As others have noted, this article could be beneficially re-written to accurately report what the miscreants were charged with and convicted (or exonerated) for.

Paris - Because she also often makes reporters confuse news for window dressing

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Anonymous Coward

Kill wantonly

I am not sure if terrorists actually do that - don't they normally do it for a cause.

So, if that is the case, then every government, every nation is pretty much guilty of it.

It would be interesting to see if any money did go to the enemy, because that is the crime, the enemy may be not better than the regime you are under, but the regime decided who the enemy is.

If no money was sent then it is about freedom of expression or a trade description.

Did people really think they were supporting an enemy of the state or did they just want some radical, risque piece of clothing.

Better Red or Dead, perhaps.

As to the yanks, well what about the Native Americans, I am not saying Europe wants your puritanical butts back, but the USA was actually taken based on race, that is its foundation. Until that particular issue is fully resolved I don't really see how the US is any better than any other country, it is more a case of the non-bigots just being bigots by governance.

Where is the Native American president, you would have thought there would have been one by now? How many Native Americans are in the senate or congress?

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Stop

right and left freedomfighters, and why they pick on the ones that they do...

I would assume that any government would react more strongly against 'freedomfighters' that were opposing the system that that government was running. However, in this story it seems that the freedomfighters (at least in the case of the columbian ones.. the palestinian ones might be a bit more of a muddy area) weren't actually fighting as much for freedom anymore as they were fighting for money. for themselves. as in 'not to stage a revolution'. which doesn't make them as much freedomfighters anymore as moneyfighters. I guess you could also call them tyrants. Most people* call them terrorists.

*Apart from themselves obviously, oh, and disillusioned european youths who need something to rebel for and against... what's that you say? you fight against a democratica...FASCIST govern..TYRANNY to make sure that peasants pay you protec..THAT THEY GET THE EDUCATION AND FOOD THAT THEY DESERVE? oh, I see, count me in then.

(Sorry for the large lettering, I was kind of trying to give the impression of someone being talked over and opressed.. sorry, I mean liberated, you know, by freedomfighters.)

You do know why palestinians have a 'special' status as 'palestinian refugees' right? (as opposed to actuall refugees) or why it is that their arabian (poor description I know, but it will have to do) neighbours are refusing to let them in.. you know, as refugees.. and why the few that do get to resettle (despite the ban) are denied citizenship in the countries where they come to.. (no, I'm not talking about britain, more along the lines of egypt/lebanon/syria) and why their sons and daughters born in these countries are also being denied citizenship? No? then look into it. It's a much more complex situation than you would think at first. Yes? then you're probably as dis-illusioned with the world as I am :o(

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theotherone

"Brilliant news. Why would anyone want to help people who kill wantonly?"

Last time I checked FARC was not killing Americans, but they do love to kidnap locals . and the Palestinians are far more concerned with killing each other and attack Israel. Nice try, and thanks for playing the troll game

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Thank you

Thank for fixing the weather, it was so much more pleasant today, I shall continue my subscription and wish you all a letter day tomorrow, good night.

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Coat

Danish Patsies?

Sorry.

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Go

@u wot

For starters:

http://www.hindu.com/2005/12/28/stories/2005122804961100.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/jul/23/congo.comment

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_/ai_n16744063

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/archive/index.php/t-1838.html

.....

End of thread

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Stop

Clearing up some points

The verdict can be found here, but in Danish:

http://www.domstol.dk/oestrelandsret/nyheder/Pressemeddelelser/Pages/Pressemeddelelse(T-shirt-sag).aspx

Being a Dane and a former law student, I would like to clear some of the mistakes and misunderstandings that both the article and comments fare.

1) Two of the convicted were subsequently jailed - those who received the harshest sentences. The rest of the convicted were not jailed but had their sentences suspended under condition of no further criminal actions one year ahead. So if they don't do anything else, they won't serve the time.

2) The hot dog seller didn't sell the T-shirts. He put up some posters in his hot dog stand, upon which there was a picture of the T-shirts and a link to the website where the T-shirts could be bought.

3) The website made it very clear that the earnings were to be given to FARC and PFLP respectively. The website also stated that you might get in trouble for violating the anti-terror provisions of the Danish Criminal Code if you bought a T-shirt, so they knew what they were doing.

4) The website's proprietor was aware that the site was to be used for selling the T-shirts. He was also a member of the group and drafted a press release about the issue and the website.

There. If more things need clarifying, please ask and I will try to explain it - e.g. Danish Criminal Law and the legal reasoning in the verdict.

...STOP, because you need to read this in order to understand the situation better.

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I clicked on this story thinking it was along the lines of the Transformers shirt in the airport.

David, it's odd because you are doing what's called, STEREOTYPING.

That's why it doesn't make much sense.

In reality, Europeans are not all okay with racism and afraid to speak out (LOL) and in reality Americans are not all the type to drop their hamburgers, pull out their guns and stand up for someone who's being picked on (double LOL. See what I did there?)

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Re: Denmark eh?

> Is this the same country that would defend it's right to offend billions of people by printing images of Muhammed

The issue here is not what they were printing on the T-shirts, but that they were sending some of the profits to some, by all accounts, pretty nasty organisations.

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But cartoons which insult them are ok?

Seems like double standards to me...I'm not a muslim myself to be fair but i would find this unfair if I was....I suppose they'll ban jewish t-shirts too, in the name of inpariality?

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The corrupt system

I have the good fortune to live in Denmark. The T-Shirt case and the Cartoon case are not really comparable. In Denmark there is "freedom" of speech - but it does have limitations. Drawing or writing criticisms, parodies, or even derogatory pictures or articles about religion is not forbidden by law. Therefore it is ok under Danish law to draw apparently insulting pictures of religious figures or to show Monty Python's "Meaning of Life" or "Life of Brian". And thank "god" for that. It is, though, not legal to "support terror" either financially or via direct action. One can always argue about the definition of "terror" and whether or not certain groups can be termed "terrorists". But the latest court verdict has considered that FARC is a "terror organisation" and that financial support of it is therefore illegal. You can of course disagree with their definition.

I, for example, disagree with the law which states that the maximum speed limit on the motorway is 130km/h. That does not stop me from being prosectued for cruising at a leisurely 200. The Danish regime is obviously corrupt.

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Flame

Danes are fedup with Muslim behaviour!

We Danes are constantly told that we have to accommodate, respect, show tolerance for and make concessions to 'Muslim sensitivities' while the Muslims clearly do not have to respect the Danish people who happen to pay their social security: People like the police, fire services, ambulance crews, bus drivers e.t.c. who are regularly abused and stone by Arab louts when called to clean up after them.

Thanks to all that "cultural diversity" we now have gang warfare, public harassment of women, street crime, ghettos and no-go zones for whites and jewish-looking persons. All "Cultural enrichments" we apparently needed 20 years ago! Maybe the yanks are used to that kind of life, the majority of the Danes will not accept such destruction of society for the sake of principle.

The more people get to know Islam, the more the loathing of people who continue to give this seventh-century collection of racist barbarisms more entitlements and rights in our country.

http://www.honestthinking.org/en/index.html

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Jon

@ kain preacher

"Last time I checked FARC was not killing Americans"

So the only people that count are Americans. If 1000s of Columbians, Palastinians, Iraqis, Iranians are not worthy enough to get upset about if they are "wantonly killed".

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Silver badge

The Americans did it first...

...with Noraid supplying funds to Northern Irish paramilitaries. They had T-Shirts too.

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