Hahahahaha.

It can, and no doubt it will, citing the French project as a precedent and proof of concept, even if it gets shot down in flames and is hated by everyone.

say it aint so !

Besides, with RIPA they don't need a central database, they just let you keep the data at home, saves losing those pesky USB dongles.

'If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear'?

No! Wait! Forget that - the Frogs have a slightly different legal system to us, don't they?

Er, well, they used to. Sort of 'guilty until proven innocent'. Can't help noticing since they took over most things in the UK, we seem to be adopting their system.

...Here we come.

Bordel - ce n'est pas bien ça.

It almost seems inevitable that this is going to happen around Europe - so hard to have faith in the politicians.

When it all kicks off, I'll be reaching for my coat - it'll be the one with directions to Canada on it

Everybody who is only the least bit concerned about civil rights and who does not believe that government will use their power always only to the publics best interest would do good reading up on the history of Europe between WW1 and WW2, especially the early 30th. And there especially German history, as Germany is the only nation that thoroughly dealt with it's fascist past. While it is far from the only country gotten carried away by it, nor the last one...

Then when the shit hits the fan, which starts to look more and more likely to me, at least nobody can say they didn't see the signs.

Using a fake, created or exaggerated crisis to make people give up their civil rights, like seen recently with the "worlds most powerful nation", or creating user databases with the sole purpose of political harassment, like here with the "worlds greatest nation", or gagging the press and any slightly public organ as currently seen with the "worlds biggest nation". It's all just history repeating.

From there the slope to a totalitarian regime is steep and slippery, and the more 'patriotism' the leaders can generate in their people to more likely it will be a fascist one.

Smell something?

-- The Alien, because sometimes I feel like switching planet...

The creation of a similar database might happen but the idea that the general public have some sort of say in these matters is frankly laughable. The idea that something condemned by everyone as a bad idea and petitioned against by the 'voters' would be stopped in the name of some sort of idea of 'democracy' is just silly liberal idealism.

as you mentioned Des Browne actually doing something, I knew the article was full of crap.

The only part of that that couldn't happen in the UK is people realising it was going on and opposing it.

That it seems like every western nation is hell bent in setting up a national ID, even though most people in those nations dont want one under any circumstance!?

*\. Looking for the Government RFID in the lining.

I think they mean that the protest against it wouldn't happen here.

So, what kind of record do the French have for leaving CDs laying about or envelopes on trains? Electrifrying squirrels want to know.

Décret n° 2008-632 (and 2008-612) du 27 juin 2008 portant création d'un traitement automatisé de données à caractère personnel dénommé « EDVIGE » is giving rise to concern, whilst Décret n° 2008-631 (and 2008-609) du 27 juin 2008 establishes the << CRISTINA >> database. Which is basically EDVIGE on steroids with added espionage, and is a national defence secret. Well, obviously WAS a national defence secret....er.....whirling blades overhead!???

Well at least the French were sensible enough to establish 2 databases and then give one up!

Ou est mon anorak?, je vais prendre le Taxi

I suppose that includes voting?

>"It just couldn't happen, we hear you say. At least not in the UK.

Except this is exactly what is going on right now in France."

Well given that France is not, last time I looked, "in the UK", why is this "except"?

Numéro

I disgree with the thrust of this article. I think the British public would put up with it. They'd groan and then supinely let it happen under headlines of "If you have nothing to hide ..."

So it's true that the French can't pull their thumbs out of their arses then?

...I had a Centrist modem, 1200 baud.

"Any society that would give up a little bit of liberty to gain a little bit of security will deserve neither and lose both."

Pretty soon, I may need government permission to pee. It is looking like all the dystopian stories are not far from the truth.

We in the US are confident in the fact that the CIA, NSA, or some other as of yet unknown agency has had such a database for years and is actively using it. Sure it would be illegal, if anyone ever found out about it. Our government will disappear you, your family , all of your friends, and remove all trace of you, if they so desire. Think KGB on steroids. Mafia Hit, drive by shooting, drug overdose, horrible auto accident, it all looks good in the papers and you are gone. and I am sure its just the tip of the iceberg. The things you see are just distractions so you will look away from what they are actually doing.

Why did we fight the Nazis and then the Soviets? So the pigs could become the farmers? Seriously? It's a fucking travesty to see what has become of the 'freedom' of the West.

In Czarist Russia, the secret police (Okhrana) used to keep tabs on people with index cards that included circles around the names of all their friends,

This made it much easier to round up "trouble-makers", Jews or anyone else who might disquiet the powers that be. BTW, these were the same people who wrote the Protocol of the Elders of Zion. After the Russian revolution, things became slightly better (but not much) under Lenin, later Stalin (became much worse) and then there were a series of other dictators of varying shades. Thank God they had to steal or clone most of their DP technology-

Imagine what a regime like that one could (does) do now. Unfortunately, the real problem is not whether or not everyone is tagged within many, many databases, because unless we have lived under a rock since birth, we most certainly are. The real problem is who controls this information and what they they do with it.

Do you trust any government to safeguard so many intimate details about your personal life, all carefully cross-referenced and indexed and meticulously updated by armies of diligent, compentent (sic) civil servants ? Hmmmm... I don't.

Several suggestions for resolving this dilemma, while we still live in a democracy:

1) Vote for politicians who believe in strong data protection laws, little or no cross-referencing of databases and profiling, and who prefer to fetter the goverment's ever more intrusive march into your daily life. Less wars on terrorism, more wars on power-hungry bureaucrats and institutions.

2) Vote for politicians who want clear boundaries on what kind of data should be collected and stored by governments and who want limited retention (5 years) on personally identifiable data.

3) Vote for politicians who are ready to reduce the amount of governmental apparatus which just seems to grow and grow and slowly stifle our remaining civil liberties and personal freedoms like some sort of insane, self-replicating (and revenue-gathering) virus.

I personally believe that citizens can now do pretty much everything they need to do online for public life, ie. create referendums, vote on public policies, elect public officials and monitor public administrations. The greater, unwashed public is probably better equipped for this than the many hacks and incompetents that all governments attract the way sh*t attracts flies.

The trouble is, a truly free world like that would scare the crap out of these people. Which is why they need to be fired and made to work for a living.

SO VOTE RON PAUL in NOVEMBER even if you never heard of him (after finding out what he and people like him have to say). Or even better, start complaining to the evil idiots you have already elected. Western governments need to be pruned down and recycled, outsourced whatever,, because there are too many of these turkeys coming up with stupid expensive, wasteful ideas that are supposed to make us safer. DO SOMETHING FOR GOD'S SAKE. In a democracy, people get the government they deserve (how's that for a cliché?)

Remember that the internet is a powerful tool for free expression, which is why totalitarian governments try to stamp it out, censor or throttle it every chance they get.

Don't let it happen to you.

As long as there is a breath in my body, I won't let the "terrorists win". As long as people can discuss sanely, intellîgently, no terrorists (including the elected onesI) will have one. That is why we need to stop the rot now. Carry on adnim, I must remain an AC for the time being.

Yes, they have sown the seeds of destruction, fortunately these misguided, elected seeds can still be voted out of office, The day they can't is when you should load up the donkey and head for the hills.

i'm not too sure about Sharia law becoming an attractive alternative. Secular repression and religious repression have too many things in common. What is interesting is that we can even entertain such a concept in the so-called secular west. I would like to believe that a truly democratic society could live with all beliefs no matter how extreme and still sort out the conflicts by rule of law. When people kill themselves or others for some cause they have already violated one universal religious and human principle, which is DON'T KILL.

Well ?

Come and get me coppers, I will dissent until the end....

BTW adnim I appreciate your comment, even if I don't agree with you. You may believe the powers that be will remove all of our civil rights. I do not. There are still too many people left who remember what it was like before.

Well it is an unpleasant future for you and your children, to be sorted by your sexual orientation, political beliefs, whatever, je ne suis pas d'accord. Enjoy

I suggest you do too, for your kids

stupid gummint DB= "so far so plausable"

Sheeple getting off their arses and doing something about it ="not likely"

Rtfa

I *WILL* vote for Ron Paul the Libertarian in November

Thanks for freeing my sight.

Now, just to check, he has paid his deposit in the Glenrothes Consituency?

Wait, I don't live there, well if I move there fast I could get onto the register.

Right, I'll do it!

Have you been asleep the past few years or what?

What do you think the UK National ID card is all about?

Did you really believe all the crap about it being to solve the pressing problem of opening bank accounts easily and getting served in pubs?

If so I’ll have 2 of whatever you’re having (must be good)

This is why I have a major problem with the ID card - only 3 steps required to turn it into what the government really wants

1) Create another smaller database with a reference to your unique ID in the national database, and some other fields, "Party_Affiliation", "Political_Groups_MemberOf" should do it

2) Pass laws requiring carrying the card at all times and usage of it for mundane day to day tasks

3) Sit back and monitor the peons

The only difference is our French cousins and their politicians seem to have more balls when it comes to telling their elected government to take a hike - Vive la France!

We should be doing the same thing - they can storm theirs, we'll storm ours and lets all meet in the middle of the Channel tunnel for tea, biscuits and good old fashioned guillotine fun

NO2ID