American plans to erect a chain of all-seeing eyes atop tall towers to guard the Mexican border have been put on hold in favour of a more conventional fence or wall, according to reports. "The highest priority is to put out a system of physical fences and barriers that will keep people and vehicles from illegally crossing the U. …
Didn't Germany build a wall at some point to stop economic migration (amoungst other things)? That turned out rather well if I remember correctly...
And how much was blown on this crap?
Lol @ subheading
Always enjoy the Reg's headlines! They often give more insight into a story than whatever tripe can be quoted as coming out of the mouths of their protagonists. Do the writers come up with them themselves, or is it a team effort?
Keep up the good work!
Knowing the people that live in the south..
It wouldn't surprise me if someone suggested making the entire border a minefield. Fences are great, but the Mexicans superior ladder technology will always defeat them.
One Texas town had an awesome competition. They erected the same kind of fence as has been proposed for the border and offered the first one to clear it a case of beer. I believe it took less than a minute to find a winner.
Sounds sort of familiar....
"Presumably to be built by relatively low-paid labour... ®"
Oohh! Ohh! I remember now!
Hitler forcing the Jews to barricade themselves into slums!
Skull and Crossbones, because I love Godwinning a comment section before it even gets started...
Hurry! hurry! git yer fence cutters here only 5 bucks apiece!
So what's the alternative now? The eye o' bubba sitting in his jeep on a hilltop with a pump action ?
This whole thing was crap from the beginning. It ran over budget, behind schedule, and never worked - and the "Department of Homeland Security" accepted the project!
Unbelievable. I know DHS sucks, really bad, but this is just unacceptable. How am I supposed to feel secure if they are spending money on broken stuff instead of catching terroists/peados/whoever??? Damn'it I'll be glad when someone new comes along and at least kisses me before the rape my asshole (for a while anyway - they they'll get bored with it I'm sure).
"Didn't Germany build a wall at some point to stop economic migration (amoungst other things)?"
The Germans are likely more familiar with the Maginot Line.
The Wall 2
"No one has any intention of building a wall". Pronounce in a squeaky voice to really feel history in the remaking.
It'll be a hit. Trust me on this. That wall is going to be worth a ton of money in 30 years or so, the souvenir business is going to soar. But the way the dollar is going I'm not taking bets on who's going to be on top in the Anschluss. ;-)
built by southerners
but very profitable contract awarded to friendly northern corporation.
plus ca change...
no, that's not an pirate, its a worker who has been on minimum wage.
"Presumably to be built from southern side"
"If the WSJ report is correct, that time is now imminent and the US will concentrate instead on more basic walls. Presumably to be built by relatively low-paid labour..."
Priceless! And it's not even Friday.
@ Andy Bright
It's not superior ladder technology, it's superior tunnel engineering. The Brits should know this - they were surrounded by water until the Chunnel was built. Now anyone can get in at any time and hardly be noticed.
Oh yeah, the Brits can close the tunnel. Their water-wall DOES still work when they need it to.
On serious matters, the US could build the Great Walls (north and south) of America, but everybody would think it would be politically incorrect (as several posters have already spoken previously). Never mind that there would be gates in the walls, and that immigration would go on exactly as before, just without the illegals crossing over willy-nilly, and drug dealers and other criminals jumping the border to get away from the cops on either side.
If you live with bad neighbors, build a fence to keep them out.
As for the Eye-of-Sauron concept, I can say only this:
"There's one! And there! Over there! Here's a whole bunch of them! And over there!" Wash, rinse, repeat. At least the real Eye of Sauron could read minds and other such things. This one's useless. What good is seeing the illegal crossers when there aren't enough border police to catch them all? Pointless.
I distinctly remember one of the major companies that was contracted to build the wall was... fined for using illegal mexican immigrants to build it. The irony was not lost on the mexican labourers that were interviewed.
By human I presume they mean *adult* human. This will be perfect for Mexican kiddies with catapults to be paid on a per-eye basis to put them out of commission !!
The difference between the Berlin Wall and this is that the Berlin Wall was intended to keep people in. This wall is intended to keep people out.
I have half a mind to suggest that people entering the country illegally be shot on sight. I should think that would pretty effectively deter individuals from trying...
I do like the minefield idea though. But the world frowns on those. I like the idea of a 50ft wide by 50ft deep concrete-walled trench with laser trip-wires built in.
Some of us that would be stuck inside said walls would argue that it was also intended to keep people in.
The illegals will just swim around the end of the fence, no?
The solution is simpler and cheaper than this
If the USA really wants to prevent illegal immigration from Mexico, then stop trying to cure the symptoms and attack the cause. It's not only a lot cheaper, it will in fact be revenue positive for the governement.
Run a lot more check for illegal immigrants. Go down whole streets in afluent neighbourhoods checking out gardeners and maids. Regularly raid construction sites and farms. Make it a $10,000 per illegal on-the-spot fine for the EMPLOYER for a first offense, a $100,000 fine per illegal for a second, and jail sentences for private employers with $1000,000 per illegal for corporations for a third or later offence. To prevent "I didn't know!" defences, make a simple social security number and passport check available by phone.
Take away the demand for cheap illegal labour, and they won't come.
Oh, and start with the homes and families of senetors and congressmen. :)
A chance of being shot on sight wouldn't deter them, especially if they went in large groups. It's just not a great deterrent, and needlessly wastes lives in the end. I'd like to see more legislation that heavily fines companies hiring illegal immigrants as well as having the company pay for shipping 'em back; a wall simply won't work.
As to your super wall, how much money would that cost to build and maintain? Horribly misplaced allocation of funds. I hate socialist systems, but giving the Mexicans the money would be better than a wall.
But then again
But then again , in order to maintain the merkin lifestyle of affluence at the cheapest possible cost , the current labour market is heavily dependent on the fifteen million south of the border undocumented forced slave workers many in dangerous and unsafe working conditions at the low end of the market of ask no questions or the pink Sheriff Joe Arpaio will arrest you for his underfed slave work force and also being paid far less then even the minimum wage of USD$7-00 per hour if they are paid at all and needs an additional million more each year as well too(Florida's Sugar and Orange industries uses slaves from Jamaica most of whom are paid around USD$2-00(the other $5 is for minimal food board and lodging in the hot bunk barracks quarters) per hour for 16 hour days minus the cost of travel as well) .
Due to the major US food corporations like United Fruit ever unwilling to pay for produce above local cost(loved all of Ronald Reagan's mostly Z toilet flushing grade propaganda films showing the opposite of reality about that aspect of life in South America of showing all merkins to be the good guys they are truly laughable comedies where even the chimp is a far better actor). Anyway with excessive use of force and lots of graduates from the Ft Benning School of Torture in Georgia down south to follow this schools doctrine to the letter , this creates the need for the local peons living south of the border to flee to safety further north straight back into the same situation once north of the Mexican International Border , truly evil one could say .
As for the eye of sauron fence and razor wire fence replete with armed border guards in the numerous proposals since 2001 have surfaced for pork barrel reasons mostly to erect the same along the vast northern unfenced frontier DMZ of 1815 with Canukistan as those residents further north are all evil file sharers and said to be downloading only merkin movies (mostly visual pollution and crap anyway), TV shows(many of which are made in the much cheaper Canukistan using actors who can speak with a nicer version of the New England accent , which allows the local uncultured residents rednecks of the south a chance to understand what they say) and songs from the big four monoliths whose quality in the first decade of the 21st century is truly in the sewer and rapidly falling even lower which explains much about the eighty percent plus fall in world wide sales from these music dinosaurs currently awaiting extinction as evolution has passed them by thanks to "Moore's Laws" .
Interesting given the extreme weather variation and large temperature range summer/winter that the northern Canukistan DMZ is subject to and the reliance of the Northern States for most deliveries by the Canukistan Pacific Railway line for a large percentage of the mail and other deliveries such a proposal is a death knell and will allow re-population by descendants of the original displaced natives as the imported whitemen of many forked tongues abandon these inhospitable lands to flee to Florida to be reunited with their fellow rednecks !
Or could it be be having these razor wire border fences north and south an insidious plot to recreate a certain middle European Country circa 1937 of tightly keeping all locals at home unable to travel abroad as new Joe Stalin like gulags spring up upon the same landscape , that be the question ?
The minefield would only be necessary along the massive stretches of border that the fence.. sorry wall.. doesn't cover. And if you shot the illegals, who would finish the wall anyway?
@AC their tunneling technology is indeed impressive, but not so impressive as their ability to walk along a fence until they find a small gap of several hundred miles. Almost wide enough for the opposing US illegals to escape into Mexico. From what I remember of these proposals, the funding was only in place to build less than half of what would be needed to fence off the entire border. I can't be the only one that sees a small flaw in this plan.
Haven't they watched any old movies?
Distinguish them from mustangs? Don't they remember the scene with the Indian hanging on the far side of the horse to make it look like there was no rider?
assuming those sensors worked...
What would keep immigrants and immigrant smuggling gangs from taking potshots at those stationary sensors? From the Mexican side of the border, where they can't be shot back at.
After a while, the border patrols would stop replacing the parts and, presto, no more Eye-o-Saurons.
Of course, you could armor them, but that would cost even more. Hmmm, maybe that's why they were so costly. You could also recess them deeper into US territory but far enough would make the exercise pointless.
Geez, how much are Americans willing to spend to keep their cheap labor out??? How much pork and gravy is Boeing & the military industrial complex wallowing in? What about spending the money on body armor for the troops instead?
Everyone wants to move north.
So the 'mericans want to keep out their neighbours to the south with a fence. And I've heard the Brits wish they'd rather have a fence than a tunnel. Perhaps the Irish and us Canadians can get a 2-for-1 deal on our own barriers...
Mine's the parka with a maple leaf on the sleeve.
They need a moat filled with sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads.
You could probably build it for one MILLION dollars...
I favour pit traps with tigers in them (hungry ones),
Please god, use some punctuation! My eyes, my eyes.
Incase you missied it...
Built by southerners?
Built from the southern side?
Does it work both ways ?
If McCain gets elected a lot of traffic will possibly be going the other way.
Come to think of it, this may also happen when Obama takes the chair.
Build them North and South
And then all countries refuse access to anyone bearing a US passport ;p
Just a thought
You know that jumbo-laser-fryer they are building?, well, I suspect that the Eye-o'-Sauron and a flying auto-BBQ plane probably sounded like a good idea one friday afternoon.
For a wall to make any sense over that that sort of distance it would take a lot of time an money - there are just too many ways for people to go over/ under/ through/ around for it to work properly.
Killing the want for people to move into the US of A in the first place would work better and I think dubya is doing quite a good job of that.
The other approach (of course) is to invite people to come in - everyone gets a NI number, which is necessary for any services and make it worthwhile to do it legally.
Paris 'cos it would be nice to do her legally.
americans love cheap labor but hate Mexicans
Actually they perhaps don't hate them, just think of them as low life, only good enough to do low paid work that americans would not do. To this end there is not the total commitment from everyone to keep them out. Eye-O-Sauran is an expensive project that only the wildly optomistic techies who invented it would think was going to work. But the authorities are behind it because it shows the people that they are spending serious money on stopping Mexicans, whilst at the same time still allowing them to get through.
Just because there is a law against something does not mean the authorities want you to stop doing it. What about that Royal Navy ship whoes job it is to stop drug traffic? It turns out many of the crew were enjoying the very drugs they were committed to stop. Lets see if you have anything in your pockets before I decide what to do with you.
maybe they could build 4 wallls...
then we could put a hose pipe over one of them on full...
mine the neoprene diving suit one.... :D
The Berlin wall allusions
Didn't the DDR build that wall to keep the 'evil capitalist sc*m' out of their ideal society...but oddly enough it did stop people getting out?
For the Eye of Sauron idea, I think it'll be great in movies, no just outrunning the inept cops to the border, they can do a 'Night Fox' kind of Brazilian dance to avoid the 'Eyes' seeing them to a stylish piece of music instead! Be much more entertaining....also, imagine the hobbits trying to get OUT of Mordor....that's a new one eh?
Low cost labour...
Isn't the low cost labour what this wall would be designed to keep OUT of America?
I think the Mexicans have a great idea here, get America to build the walls to keep themselves in!
Maybe a real life FIRE wall would work better?
Ah well, so, the Iraqi 'government' won't be buying it either
Not commonly known, but the US was trying to convince the Iraqi 'government' that they needed this hardware to protect themselves against 'insurgents' (like the country isn't full of them anyway) and other undesirables, crossing their borders.
The plot was that Iraq was to be surrounded by an Eye O Sauron system which, unlike the US/Mex border version, was to be wired directly into the local 'defence' system...
Kind of tough on some, shepherds searching for lost goats near the border getting a Hellfire up the arse, etc...
The expense was to be borne by the Iraqis, paid from their cut of the oil revenues, and would provide 'absolute border security'.
Whether the Iraqis have backed out, depriving the project of the funding required to get it to actually work, thus killing the US/Mex version, or the Yanks have decided that recent developments suggest they just walk away from the whole mess (think Vietnam), and making further development too expensive, I'm not sure. But it sounds like Sauron's dead.
Parodied in the TV show Reno 911.
Some of the rednecks go out the border to build a fence, get completely blotto and then offer the Mexicans crates of beer to build the fence for them. The Mexicans build the fence 10 feet north of where it should be and the rednecks get stuck on the wrong side. The Mexican border guards turn up and arrest the rednecks and the Mexicans run off into the US!
Someone will steal it
If someone can pinch a 120-foot radio tower without anyone noticing, I doubt these will present much of a challenge...
The best walls
As noted several times already, the best walls are the ones built by the poorer side: East Germany, North Korea, Cuba,
They work by persuading citizens that they are better off staying put, and are much cheaper than stopping immigration with technology. I wonder what the cumulative maintenance costs of the Wall of China were, and still the Mongols got in several times. And Rome, don't get me started!
The sell might be: they have terrorists north of the fence, can't buy decent chili, don't speak Spanish, don't even have proper churches,....
And the US has to shut up about being such a great place, or at least make clear that the American Dream isn't really for this century's immigrants.
IT relevance? Don't use a technical solution to solve an organisational problem.
Here's the deal
Fences work pretty well. They are being used in places like the India-Bangledesh border You don't have to stop all the people and vehicles coming through; you just need to obstruct and channel them to places its easier to pick them up. Thousands of new border agents have been hired. If you can funnel the crossers to where these guys are concentrated you can really increase the efficiency of the operation.
Tunnels are a significant investment in time and money. You can't put them everywhere only places where you have a secure entry and secure exit point, like in buildings. And, you aren't going to put a million people through a tunnel. The more people you put through it the more know about it. Sooner or later somebody is going to give it up.
I'm not against Mexicans working in the US. I'd like to see a system fair for them and fair for us. What legal systems exist are so monsterously incoherent and unfair that they can't be made to work. Too much politics in it, too many favored groups, too much corruption.
"I have half a mind"
That much is obvious.
The walls will work
If you have the right contractors - hello, is that Tel Aviv...?
Big Wall in China?
What about that great big wall in China? That worked out pretty well for a long time didn't it? Everybody seems to like that wall...
If we built a "Great Wall of America" to the same standards of materials and workmanship as that wall in China people would like the idea a lot more. You could guard the shit out of it for little money and it'd be a great civil project for thousands of blue-collar workers.
But it's got to a cool wall. Not a fucking chain fence.
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