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back to article Internet Explorer - now with 35% less FAIL

Internet Explorer 8 beta 2 has been released, and it certainly makes for better browsing than the rough-around-the-edges beta 1 build. Rather than recommend the code only to web designers and developers of stout courage, Microsoft is throwing open the door for end-users one and all. The build adds some notable security and …

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Anonymous Coward

And ...

65% more bloat than your usual browser.

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The search engine bit

Was in IE7, I'm sure of it.

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IE 8 super slow and Privacy mode not so private

I downloaded IE 8 this afternoon and it is much slower than IE 7. Tried out Privacy mode and visted Websites in Privacy mode. Each Website was able to identify my location city customizing their responses. How private is that?

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baby steps

Haha thanks for another dryly-written article. But as you say, it's adding little or nothing to the table, and reminds me how pleased I am that we have Browser Wars, as if we had been left with just IE back in 1999 the Internet would be about 14 steps backwards.

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@And...

Of course it has 65% more bloat.. where else are they going to store the stuff they aren't "saving" anymore in private mode?

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LOL, the download is broken.

Strange that I decided to download this and give it a try..... The download page just hangs, and if i click "Start Download" manually, it displayes the "Cannot be displayed" page.....

Way to go MS. I might try to download in firefox instead......Nope, that's broken too. Oh well, FF3 for the win.

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Happy

Acid??

Where's the acid test score?

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Coat

like the copy cats they are...

... they will always limp on step behind, calling stolen ideas "innovation", trying to give things their own "twist", and f*cking them up while doing so...

A few other of their "victims":

VMWare => Virtual PC

CItrix => Terminal Server

Visio...

...well, that whole OS (Overbloated System), actually!

No thanks. Why wouldn't I stick to the 'alternatives', especially when they are the originals?

Mine is the one with the 'Hoogo Bozz' label inside!

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Go

I see it runs on XP...

I suspect the final release may well suddenly require Vista? Not that they need to try and crowbar people off XP or anything...

I might... *Might* risk it in a VM, we'll see... There's no way in hell I'm installing it on my desktop...

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Please don't do it.

help me I can't uninstall this crapware on xppsp2. Its always wanting to debug everything and you need to reinstall all the addins like flashget, bt, etc... sucks! AVOID!

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Sim
Gates Horns

web standards - what new ways will exploder 8 break them

Is ie8 going to break web standards in any new and interesting ways or just the usual ones

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Anonymous Coward

Debug build?

I'm wondering whether any performance and bloat issues are a result of it being a debug build? It is only an early beta afterall, assuming the usual process it'll be beta3 next and then the RC's. Personally I'll withhold judgement (and testing) until at least beta3.

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Flame

You forgot the Fail!

CNET reports Browser Discrimination and DRM are broken for IE8.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10028458-75.html

Serves them right.

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Flame

Its a browser....

Give it up, its fucking done. Like MS Word before it, the ultimate browser was Netscape 3. Nothing substantially useful has been done since then.

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Coat

TrueCrypt

will help with those shopping images....

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As usual, the pundits forget about manageability :)

Internet Explorer offers central configuration & enforcement of settings and preferences using Group Policy. The "competition": sorry, you're at the mercy of your users. Want to lock out a particular browser add-on RIGHT NOW due to the emergence of a major security risk? With IE and Group Policy, that's possible.

IE offers central patching using WSUS (among other methods). The "competition": your team gets to go visit every desktop in person, unless you want to leave the work to your users.

IE is easy to audit, fleet-wide, using Microsoft Baseline Security Analyzer to identify systems with insecure browser settings or unpatched browsers. Competition... "uh, no, who do you think we are, Microsoft or someone?"

If this weren't The Reg, maybe the overwhelming home-user perspective would be more understandable. When it comes to the I.T. arena, I think efficient manageability and auditing is extremely important, and I see no viable competitors to Internet Explorer in that realm, even after all these years. If the competition wants to be taken seriously in the I.T. space, waking up to the need for efficient manageability would really help their case.

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Dutch Lobster

Ha ha! He searched for Dutch Lobster! Must be a n00b if he doesn't know what it is.

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Boffin

@ "able to identify my location city customizing their responses"

Each Website was able to identify my location city customizing their responses. How private is that?"

The websites in question are probably doing that based on some convoluted lookups on your IP address (we wrote something similar to customise the home page of a store based on the visitor's country at my last company). Can't really blame MS for that, as it's kinda difficult to surf a site without it knowing your IP address - although if you find a way, I'm sure the folks at TPB would be interested in adding it to their new P2P protocol. ;)

(oh, and don't start quoting any of that TOR rubbish at me, and saying it obfuscates your IP)

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Stop

Is anything new?

So far I don't see any features that other browsers don't already have. So why would I download and install this?

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Anonymous Coward

At least they're trying.

All you people whining about how IE8's features are alread in FF/Opera/Safari/Lynx: Would you prefer they'd just stopped with IE6? After all, everyone else is better, so why try to catch up, right?

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Silver badge

All this bitching

over Microsofts brilliant and innovative browsing product. I'm sure in most cases here it was downloaded just to ridicule.

My experiences of IE stopped at IE5. I see no reason to confirm my suspicions and waste my time and bandwidth downloading this truly wonderful and exceptional window on the web just for a laugh. I leave that to the Reg faithful, thank you for providing some amusement with my morning coffee.

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Good to see .....

the "cock gagging" story again ..... and the tone of the article was spot on

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@Beeze > IE 8 super slow and Privacy mode not so private

"Each Website was able to identify my location city customizing their responses. How private is that?"

Because the code to do this has absolutely nothing to do with whatever web browser you happen to be using.

This code just checks the originating IP address of the HTTP request (which you can mask only by using a proxy) and cross references it against a lookup database that lists the likely location.

So not a problem with IE8's "Privacy Mode" at all.

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Joke

Is it available...

for the Mac or on Linux?

No? Oh well, better luck next time...

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@Brent Gardner

Netscape was a steaming pile of fail and the main reason I favour IE today is due to habits learned by using it to avoid dealing with netscape at all, if I could help it. If it wasn't for that I'd probably be a firefox or opera user, but now I'm just too comfortable with the way IE does things.

(Yes, I'm one of the people who uses IE by choice. Unless I'm using elinks.)

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Paris Hilton

...that 80GB stash of "gift idea jpgs."...

...would be best contained by TrueCrypt (www.truecrypt.org).

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Gates Halo

I see the anti-MS flamer's are here!

Looking at it objectively, I think its very good (and lets remember its STILL ONLY A BETA.

Its faster than FF3. Its kinder to the system, and its not a memory leach like Firefox is. FF3 is crap. I'll probably switch back to IE when this goes final, and I've used Firefox since 1.5.

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Joke

Re: TrueCrypt

"will help with those shopping images...."

Of course, I wouldn't know anything about that... I don't do 'shopping'... certainly helps with the porn though.

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Gates Horns

Rendering Engine

I notice that there's no mention of them fixing (or even attempting to fix) their HOPELESS rendering engine?

Why is it that a software company with more financial resources than some governments can't manage to scrape together enough programming talent to build a better browser tha Firefox? Its laughable, frankly.

The usual MS approach. Stick on some more chrome, add a few minor "features", somehow use another 35% of your system resources, and release it a major version release.

When IE 7 hit, I joked to my work colleague that it would be funny if they fixed the CSS rendering bugs that made IE hacks work, but not fix the actual rendering bugs they addressed.

"Of course they won't do that. Only an IDIOT would do that"

OF course, I'll still have to install so I can see what a mess it makes of my CSS.

Where's the horned Ballmer icon?

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Anonymous Coward

It's like this...

Ford sell pretty average cars, they lag behind the true innovators and yet they have a huge market share and motoring journalists seem to fall for their spin. It's just the way consumer markets work, why should the browser market be any different?

Sad but true.

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ACID3 Test Scores

Since IE8 is supposed to be "standards compliant", here are the ACID3 Test Scores of all current mainstream Browsers (all on WinXP SP3 if that matters):

83 - Opera 9.52

75 - Safari 3.1.2

71 - Firefox 3.0.1

21 - IE8 Beta2

12 - IE6 and IE7

Hardly impressive. At least it passes ACID2 now..

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Tor rubbish

Tor does indeed hide your IP, using a chain of proxies that it periodically rebuilds. Try bouncing through Tor to google.com and see the fascinating array of polish, german and other nationalised googles. Quite effective.

- A proud Tor server operator

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Gates Horns

I faintly wondered

if it would be available for non-windows platforms (as firefox and opera are)...............

But of course not!

Pointless

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omg
Flame

'FAIL' IS NOT A NOUN!!!

Ignorant cretins!

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(Written by Reg staff)

Re: 'FAIL' IS NOT A NOUN!!!

Well, 'omg' is not a word, is it?

Fail.

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Acid

Well I've had a play with it, and it seems to cope with Acid 2 perfectly (well compared with the reference rendering)

It's not too hot on Acid 3 though.. that said, what is (apart from Safari Dev 4)

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Gates Halo

Not so slow

I've had no probelems with speed, the only thing which is slightly slugish is the new address bar features.

At 12 Mb its hardly bloaty.

The suggested sites seems a bit naff and compatibilty mode seems to get disabled on all of the MS websites how ever.

Why do we still have Bill icons he stepped down a while ago.

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Anonymous Coward

@omg

So you know that fail is not a noun. One mark for grammar. And then you spoil it all by using multiple exclamation marks. Fail.

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standards

I don't give a rat's ass about these new features, I want IE to finally obey W3C standards. And while they're at it, rip out crappy jscript and make the thing run proper javascript FFS.

IE is the worst thing to happen to the web, ask any developer.

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Re: 'FAIL' IS NOT A NOUN!!!

Ignoring the common Interweb usage of the word as a noun, we have Chambers:

fail (noun):

a failure, especially in an exam.

Wiktionary says:

fail (noun).

a failure, especially of a financial transaction; a failing grade in an academic examination; : To not achieve a particular goal.

I mark your comment a FAIL.

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Boffin

Re: 'FAIL' IS NOT A NOUN!!!

Well I'll just have to fix those stupid online dictionaries without fail then won't we?

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Acid

@Ben Brandwood :

dev builds of Opera too, and Omniweb. Well the latter use webkit so not really a surprise it does as well as safari.

21 on Acid3 ?

Really a shame, even if Acid 3 looks in the dirty corners, not in main stuff like version 2 did.

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Bronze badge

Tabs?

Actually, as a general rule I tend to be against the idea of tabs: you already have a 'tab bar' of sorts with the Windows Task Bar, and it seems logical to continue to use that as a single place to find things rather than creating another one. For that reason I prefer Word and Excel to use separate Task Bar entries for docs. However when Windows starts stacking them into one that can get annoying!

Have to admit though the tabbed browsing first in Opera, and more recently Firefox, is weaning me off this way of thinking. Whether I'll bother with IE8 though after the mess of IE7 pushed me to FF we'll have to see.

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Boffin

@omg

Yes, you are right. The use of "fail" in this way is a relatively recent phenomenon. That doesn't make it wrong.

Who would have thought it, the English language is evolving...

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Anonymous Coward

@Brent Gardner

"...ultimate browser was Netscape 3. Nothing substantially useful has been done since then."

I disagree. I think the ability to resize a browser window without it refetching the page (and potentially reposting forms) was a major step forward in Netscape 4.

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IE8 Beta 2

Still an all our yesterdays browser, falls well short of the performance offered by Opera, Firefox and Safari. Bloated, overweight, big footprint comparatively speaking, sluggish, page load delay on occasion.

If this is the best microsoft can do it will be yet another resounding failure!

WinXP Pro SP3 and Vista Ultimate x86 x64 Quad Core 8GB RAM

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@mechBgon

Good point. Hadn't considered large environments and their needs. Then again, you shouldn't be allowing direct external net access from within a company, it should all be squeezed through a proxy (for blacklisting, logging etc) which gives you a convenient choke point if you suddenly need to stop everything.

That doesn't address the versioning & general software control (FF addons etc) problems though.

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@mmr

"Well I'll just have to fix those stupid online dictionaries without fail then won't we?"

You can have a crack at the dictionary but don't write any online WIKIs on grammar mate.

Otherwise I'll have to fix them, wont' we?

arf arf

(Unless you were overloading that comment with irony.)

P.S. All your fail are hours!

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@Beezer @ mechBgon

@Beezer

As said above, ip address.... nub..... please engage brain before slating. Had the site tried to set a cookie with your location data, that would probably have been blocked. :)

@mechBgon

I agree totally. There are so many companies out there that totally fail torecognise that some guy somewhere has to deploy thier two bit software across potentially a huge userbase. Thankfully I only manage 150odd desktops but that's still above 'manual touch'. If I had to visit every desktop in a software rollout I'd never get anything else done ever but rolling out software.

Why more companies do not ship predefined admx templates for thier products is beyond me, especially for software that's pretty much everywhere (Adobe Reader/WinZip/Flash/Java) - yes I know I can write my own, and people have for some of those but that's just not the point. I don't want to mess around with the Adobe Customisation Wizard for ages repackaging thier bloat, I just want t deploy it and disable bits.

A little off topic, but you get the point. I expect IE8 will ship with admx templates, there might even be some already. Half the features at least will be covered by the existing one's.

I've installed the beta and so far I like it, it's an improvement on IE7, faster, lighter and at last tab recovery (why was it omitted from ie7?!?!?).

Posted on IE8 Beta 2 :)

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Gates Halo

RE: web standards - what new ways will exploder 8 break them

Ironically, I think it's going to fix some of the ways in which IE7 broke standards, which will break existing websites that currently design around them.

Ho hum... (is that a noun?)

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