Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:37 GMT
Would be for MS to provide an XP Pro to XP Home converter tool, so those people who actually have an XP Home license and have foolishly, or unwittingly installed XP Pro could downgrade in a simple fashion.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:37 GMT
Is what I always set my desktop to. Makes it a bit tricky to tell if my copy's genuine or not...
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:37 GMT
So MS want pirates to go genuine on an OS that they won't sell to them anymore?
I know at least 2 friends who have dodgy XP installs. Not because they're too tight to buy it, but because they've bought a PC/laptop with Vista, hated it, wanted XP and been unable to actually buy it these days. Hence their only options have been to stick with an OS they dislike, or stick a dodgy copy of an OS on that they prefer.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:37 GMT
what other operating system are you going to pirate?
Vista = shit, preinstalled shit for the most part that you want to get rid of.
2000 = too old
XP Home = well you can get XP Pro
XP Pro = that's the badger
Linux = most versions are free
Mac OS = comes with the machine
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:37 GMT
"it would be below us to suggest that even the pirates have a hard time selling Vista."
No, it would be predictable.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:52 GMT
In practice Microsoft is spreading out viruses with which they can control people machines claiming that they are using a pirated copy and everyone knows that thanks to many documented false positives that's going to happen to those that paid for the insanely priced OS license and not just using copies.
Vista SP1 is available everywhere on the 'net.. just look at torrent sites and P2P networks.. there are hundreds versions fully cracked and fully working being spread daily and with which WindowsUpdate works perfectly. So, why Microsoft doesn't care about "protecting Vista users" but wants to be so helpful towards XP customers?
If only Microsoft wasn't a monopoly allowed to do whatever they want to and completely out of control like no other business in the world and if only their products prices were fair then there wouldn't have been so much people using cracked copies, and that's for sure.
If a product is priced right then 90%+ of people will buy it. There is no reason why an OS license must cost 4-5 up to 20 times more than a blockbuster high budget movie DVD or BD disc release. Really, there is none.
The right price for a Vista Ultimate license should be $69 while basic versions should be priced in the $29 - $59 range.
The same applies to XP and Windows2003/Windows2008. Instead their license are so expensive that even a profitable business risks to go bankrupt paying the Microsoft monopoly those insane prices.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:52 GMT
Rather than waste space here...
Symantec Pot calls Microsoft Kettle Black:
http://www.antiwindowscatalog.com/?mode=rant&id=45
Twice...
http://www.antiwindowscatalog.com/?mode=rant&id=39
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:52 GMT
As usual this will only inconvenience the the honest customers, the "genuine" pirates will get off scot-free.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:52 GMT
"Microsoft has previously claimed that XP is more pirated than any other operating system. It reckons that the counterfeit rate for Vista is less than half that of XP, it would be below us to suggest that even the pirates have a hard time selling Vista."
XP has been around for sometime now, how many millions of copies are in use out there, How many windows based machines run XP, the vast majority. So it comes as no surprise that XP is the most pirated OS.
Vista is being avoided like the plague, it is also no surpirse that the counterfeit rate is less than half of XP. I believe It has a user base of less than 10% of that of XP despite what MS would like us to believe. Not because it is difficult to pirate either, but because it is DRM riddled and adds another layer of obfuscation between the user and the real workings of the OS. Those likely to use a pirated OS are not likely to use a DRM riddled pos that hides it's true M.O. behind a flashy user interface.
Pirates have a hard time giving vista away let alone selling it!
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:52 GMT
it's just that no one wants to....
This is why I went with ubuntu, and haven't looked back since.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:52 GMT
I know!
I know!
<Yes Kochis>
Let's make WGA an even bigger pain in the ass Bill.
Oh Joy.
More bloat.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:52 GMT
"it would be below us to suggest that even the pirates have a hard time selling Vista"
Reg I salute you!
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:52 GMT
It's the false negatives too.
I'll admit to having used some dodgy copies of XP, Office and the likes on more than one occasion. You know, same product key on multiple machines simultaneously, friend-of-a-friend disk that makes it's way through the halls of residence, etc. We were all students once, weren't we?
Despite that, I never once had a product activation or WGA check fail on me. Not once. Not even when I activated the same XP product key on two different machines a matter of days apart.
What's the point in even having stuff like WGA if they can't even spot a XP Home license that's in use on countless different machines?
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:52 GMT
it is bad enough that the MS has relesed a plague of vista upon the world
now they try to enhance xp users expiriance to that of vista?
to quote the old catch phrase by ms : where do you want to go today?
i have an answer me i want to go no where in particular but you and that idea can go to bloody hell!
i just have to ask how is it going to help anyway?
i already had seen the nag disablers for vista on torrent sites so what is the point of doing to xp?
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:53 GMT
and accurate.
PS where can I buy a legitimate XP pro? Unfortunately Vista won't run on my hardware
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:53 GMT
Well that'll be good, because plain black has been my background of choice with my (legit) XP installation for the past 2½ years. Ho hum
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:57 GMT
I suppose, as an Evil Penguin-Shagging Communist™, I should actually be pleased about this. After all, if you don't want to pay for an Operating System, you don't have to.
If you want Windows, pay for it ..... If you don't want to pay for it, use Open Source. Not rocket science.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 14:57 GMT
Oh Joy... I am excited for him........aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 15:32 GMT
Uh, do we get to have our money back now that we are being forced to accept a change? After all, if "we've bought the license to use" and they change how we are to use it, we should get our money back when we refuse the contract change, yes?
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 15:32 GMT
Sounds like a fun jape to start installing it as people's background wallpaper.
Jolyon
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 15:32 GMT
Overclockers.co.uk seem to still have copies in stock
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 15:32 GMT
..or the story of how to move pirate users to Vista.
ps: where is the ballmer icon?
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 15:32 GMT
It's just that I swapped to Ubuntu a couple of months back and would like it as my wallpaper.
Just as good as Windows, except faster, more powerful and less flashing districations. Not missed Windows at all.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 15:32 GMT
As has been publicised on here previously, and is pretty widely known across tha' web, if you want to run LEGAL XP purchase a copy of Vista (if you're box didn't come with one), then simply phone MS and exercise your downgrade rights by requesting an XP licence key. You may need to source your own media though...
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 15:32 GMT
Does anyone know? I doubt Microsoft talks about it openly. I'd really like to see an investigative (do people do that?) report on how WGA is supposed to work, and why it fails so badly.
Before I switched my home machines to Linux, I had replaced my pre-installed XP systems with a copy of Win2k from Pirate Bay. WGA deemed it "genuine".
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 15:32 GMT
I thought Mr Phreaky would take a moment or two off from his anti-Apple diatribes, and possibly stand up for an OS he believes to be vastly superior.
Maybe his nurse (or that nice B-I-I-G young man dressed all in white) won't let him come out to play today...
Mine's the Mac...
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 15:32 GMT
Customers whose machines are found to be running dodgy copies of XP will see their desktop backgrounds change to a “plain black background”. A user can change their screen settings as desired, but the nagware will, er, paint it black every 60 minutes.
I use a black screen as my background most of the time anyway. For people that dont you can use software from places like http://www.wallpaperchanger.de/ that set the wallpaper at regular intervals.
"A static message will also hang around on the desktop, pestering the user that their copy of XP appears to be a knock-off version of the operating system."
Wont that be hidden behind my icons? Oh well..
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 15:50 GMT
So what happens if you set the access rights of your log-on to not allow background changes...
but really whats the point, the Freetards (of which I confess to being one) just use a crack copy, and update via alternative websites that kindly get the updates for us, or just not bother updating at all relying on firefox, firewall, routers and avg.
Vista, why bother when XP works for all my needs and as more and more of my software is cloud based the operating system is becoming nothing more than a way of loading firefox..
Would get off my lazy but and learn penguin but it doest play the games I like
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 15:50 GMT
Interesting, I didn't know about that. I've been putting off buying a laptop because I wanted Vista to get bedded in a bit more before I start tackling it. So how does the downgrade work? Do you have to downgrade to XP Home; do you need a certain version of Vista to downgrade to XP Pro?
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 15:50 GMT
This assumes XP will actually stay up for 60 minutes!!
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 16:08 GMT
Yes you need Vista Business or Ultimate and normally i get a XP Pro key with no problem,
then you use your copy/iso of xp you downloaded and input the key they gave you over the phone during the downgrade and away you go!!...last time i asked it also allows you to (for what ever reason) upgrade back to the version of vista you orginally got..so im told.
or just use suse + wine...
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 16:20 GMT
"It reckons that the counterfeit rate for Vista is less than half that of XP"
If Vista is copied half as much as XP, then correspondingly the pirated copies of XP must be a very, very low figure. I don't know anyone who wants vista - and only one who bought a PC with it (against advice) and regretted it.
So if pirates have somehow managed to persuade 100 people to try using a shit OS, then that only makes 200 using one not quite so restrictive, slow, and generally crap.
If that's the case, they're either talking a whole load of BS (there's absolutely no way 50% of pirate installs are Vista - I don't know of a single one) or they really haven't got a clue who's using what, but still want to make Vista sound usable by boosting the number of "counterfeit" copies it claims are in use.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 16:20 GMT
It's not like it's a difficult workaround...
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 16:20 GMT
You have got to be kidding "Just as good as Windows, except faster, more powerful and less flashing districations."
In no way would i call myself a MS fan by any means, but the statment above is like saying "my Mac runs more software and connects to more hardware than my pc can"
some one once said "there is lies then there is damn lies" vista may be an application waiting for a purpose but ubuntu is as buggy as any other os seems you just have not used it enough.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 16:20 GMT
Allow a bunch of untrustworthy corporate twats to install anything they like on your box ? errr, yeah. Right. Autopatcher, we miss you.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 16:20 GMT
Vista Business/Enterprise/Ultimate can be downgraded to XP Pro/Win2k Pro
Vista Home Basic/Premium can be downgraded to XP Home
Also Server 2008 can be downgraded to 2000/2003 with similar restrictions ie standard to standard etc
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 17:29 GMT
So, pressure by MS to kill off as many XP installs as possible. Unexpected that.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 17:29 GMT
some one once said "there is lies then there is damn lies"
No they didn't. They said "there are lies, damned lies and there are statistics".
A much more applicable quote to the original theme.
Ubuntu is faster than Windows, I know because I used every version up to and including the last release. As to bugs, the Open Source model means they're more likely to be fixed.
All OS's crash. From my own experience, OSX crashes less than anything else.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 17:29 GMT
>>
So, why Microsoft doesn't care about "protecting Vista users" but wants to be so helpful towards XP customers?
<<
Considering "legalized" copyright violation (for example when they had the cheap license fee for people that supposedly bought incorrectly channeled software) is the possibly the best way to distribute rubbish software, I think it's brilliant.
"Hey, we can't pirate XP anymore, lets put Vista on the PC!!". At least, that worked back in the day of Windows95/98, if anyone remembers back then.
Now, however; with Linux actually becoming a worthwhile competitor with the likes of Xandros and Ubuntu actually being usable by effectively clueless users like granny and grandpa, I think it'll be a harder strategy to pull off.
I just WISH Linux would have better support for windows games. If it did, I think we'd see more home users installing it on their primary PC's. I know I would.. I just can't be bothered setting up dualboot just so that I can play games.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 17:29 GMT
I can see MS ending up in hot water of this, to link a black background to negative aspects such a piracy gives the impression that well anything black has a negative connotation associated with it, ie. a subtle form of racism.
I know you have blacklists and whitelists regarding email, but nothing as 'graphic' as actually a black background representing that fact that you are pertaking in 'illegal' activities.
Once you change your licence key does your screen change to a nice shade of pastel pink?
and everything is fine and dandy in your little 'white' world. Now as I remember Office 2002 had a problem where if you searched for clip art 'monkey' it bought back the image of a black family - correct me if I wrong.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 17:29 GMT
"XP is more pirated than any other operating system"
I don't suppose it occurs to MS to think that through...
As for up (sorry down) -grading Vista, I thought you could only do that with the Business versions now?
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 17:29 GMT
and they will miss the pirates - they will be begging people to jump back on the Windows wagon in any way they can! Why? Because they surely get more than enough money from all the side-applications they sell that run ontop of the most widely used desktop pc operating system, Windows XP. If you take away the pirate versions, and force legit people to get Vista in their next PC against their will - you will start to see Linux and OSX taking over - as that happens you will get less sales of M$ software - and they lose more money than when the pirating was more prolific.
Where are my facts and figures for this theory/prophecy?? We don't need no stinking facts or figures, this is the internet, I'm allowed to shovel as much opinionated crap as I want!! :)
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 17:31 GMT
Hey Anon, you must have Vista Business, Enterprise or Ultimate to exercise the "upgrade" to XP PRO option.
PS: Don't be fooled, "Premium" is not not premium enough to be eligible. That's why all the low end 'puters have Premium stuck on them, so you can buy a second license. ;-)
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 17:31 GMT
A copy I re-installed was flagged as "pirate" They offered the option of a licence for about 70 Euro, or ring and argue.
It was 2am and their WAS someone to ring and argue (may not have been a real person).
"Is this installed on any other PCs?"
>> "No the previous PC (laptop) was sat on and broken"
"Did it come with the PC"
>> "No we bought it in a box in the Shop"
"OK here is a key to enter...."
All true BTW.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 17:31 GMT
Since when? Could you provide a link to an updated Microsoft EULA page stating this, please? While this would be great and fair, MS is not.
PDF: http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/f/4/5f4c83d3-833e-4f11-8cbd-699b0c164182/royaltyoemreferencesheet.pdf
HTML: http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:DoQamYdJmbgJ:download.microsoft.com/download/5/f/4/5f4c83d3-833e-4f11-8cbd-699b0c164182/royaltyoemreferencesheet.pdf+http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/f/4/5f4c83d3-833e-4f11-8cbd-699b0c164182/royaltyoemreferencesheet.pdf&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 17:42 GMT
I've been running Ubuntu about a year now (switched over from Fedora because I liked the lazy, no-effort, just-works experience Ubuntu offered). I'm a developer and run four Ubuntu servers (on creaking legacy hardware) and two Ubuntu Desktop machines (one creaking, one pretty quick).
In the past 12 months my grottiest machine has had about 2 hrs downtime while I replaced its dust-clogged, worn out fans, and the fast one was down for 15 minutes for an internal clean and the addition of an extra hard drive. A couple of applications have occasionally flaked out on me, including OOo and Eclipse, but I've not lost any data as a result or been forced to reboot the OS. My workhorses (Postgres, MySQL, PHP, Tcl, Squid, Tor and Apache) have been flawless. I've had no hardware compatibility issues (and I do use a wireless network and a ton of USB devices - mostly storage, plus a digital camera, a few of which were officially badged as Windows only).
Most of my machines are tucked in behind a firewall but I do have one trusty world-facing webserver that also runs Tor. I get a few 'knocks on the door' a day but have never had a successful break-in (touches wood and tails logs).
Just as buggy, my arse.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 17:42 GMT
I was under the impression that when you got an O/S you had a license for it that could be refunded? I have bought from MS and have copies of to this day, DOS5, Windows 3, Windows 95 (x2 copies as I lost the key for one and had to rebuy it), Windows 98SE, Windows 2000 and now Windows XP Professional.
There's only one flaw... it seems MS won't actually refund your license on an old operating system because it doesn't have a retail value any more. Despite this though, they seem eager to apply an ever increasing amount of restrictions to users of XP which they can no longer buy.
If it now has no marketable value why are they introducing this? If XP still has such a value, surely my old O/Ss do as well. I'd like my money back for all of them please.
The logic of MS thus goes -
1) You buy a license from us for using that O/S
2) You can refund the license, except if we don't sell the O/S
3) We will introduce systems that will stop you pirating an O/S we no longer sell
4) But if you want to buy a legal version... you can't.
Posted Wednesday 27th August 2008 17:42 GMT
So it's practically useless then if you get a laptop/PC with Vista Home Premium (as most retail systems come with). If it were possible to downgrade VHP to XP Home, that'd be great. But it isn't.
If you get a machine with VHP, you're either stuck with it, or you have to resort to piracy to get XP.
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