back to article US judge says University can ignore Christian course credits

A federal judge has told the University of California that when considering applicants, it has the constitutional right to ignore high school course work grounded in the notion that the Bible is infallible. On Friday, as reported by the San Francisco Chronicle, Judge James Otero denied claims from a group of Christian high …

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Boffin

Hurrah! Sanity prevails!

What did these people expect from the judge? Let's try religion in maths, shall we: "Professor, I cannot solve this equations because the answer may be 666, which is against my religious beliefs"

(Yes, I know, Calvin tried it)

However, given the lack of self-scrutiny these people have, will they appeal?

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Pirate

It scares me so much

That the big red button rests in the hands of a bunch of people with such a medieval mindset. (lets just ignore the way that their leaders are elected)

Anyone who believes in any deity is suspect, but to enforce your irrational views on an education system, just perpetuates this childlike view of the world and creates yet enough generation who fail to take responsibility for their own actions.

Wankers tbh

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Joke

Ahh, these American judges......!!

Truly it is said that the Brits and the Yanks are one nation seperated by a common language.

Looking through the 'fun' edition of the Wackypedia produces this definition of 'animus', a word which Jung invented:

"...It is the personification of the masculine qualities in a woman's psyche. These qualities may include rationality, authority, objectivity, initiative, courage, conviction, action, aggression, and brutality..."

Do you think the 'learned' judge means 'animosity'? Of course, I could just go and alter the wacky definition....

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At last...

someone over there sees some sense!

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Remember me on this computer

"failed to adequately teach critical thinking and modern historical analytic methods."

Critical thinking is what is currently missing in a vast majority of the population.

I believe homoeopathy works.

I believe mobile phone masts will make my children thick.

I believe wi-fi will give me cancer.

I believe MS Vista will make my computer faster.

I believe the earth is 6,000 years old.

No no no. Please think. Please teach your children to think. Don't just gobble down this mumbo jumbo and spurt it out. Gits.

Anyway, Jennifer Monk, good name/job link.

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Go

Intelligent Design takes an early bath again!

Good to see the sneaky machinations of the anti-Darwinistas defeated again. I just hope the same backbone continues to be shown by our judicary here in the UK. Religion has no place in schools, other than as a historic look into social control and exploitation, maybe psychiatric studies into non-logical group thought thinking, and legal studies of such conmen as Jimmy Swaggert. Sorry if that offends the religeous out there, but you can take your social crutch and shove it somewhere it's not going to distract my children from real education.

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Boffin

Public faith schools

More evidence methinks that publicly funded faith schools do more for kids than forcing religiously conservative parents to resort to private schools whose curriculum can't be standardized.

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hmmm

"It appears the UC is attempting to secularize private religious schools," said their attorney, Jennifer Monk of Advocates for Faith and Freedom.

And that's a bad thing?

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Joke

Their attorney's name is MONK?

Coincidence?

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Coat

@Ahh, these American judges......!!

Actually "animus" is exactly what he means - it describes a feeling of animosity...

Mine is the one with the dictionary in the pocket!

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@Dodgy Geezer

Still better than the NBC reporter who yesterday described Phelps as the most 'winningest' Olympian ever.

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Happy

RE: Gordon Pryra

"Anyone who believes in any deity is suspect, but to enforce your irrational views on an education system, just perpetuates this childlike view of the world and creates yet enough generation who fail to take responsibility for their own actions."

How strongly do you believe that?

Belief with no room for compromise _ON EITHER SIDE_ of the argument is irrational.

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Stop

Oh and BTW...

If these 'students' already believe that the contents of the Bible are "absolute and infallible", then their 'studies' are clearly complete, and they can have no use for any further 'education' of any sort. Clearly a university place would be wasted on them.

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Stop

"Rights"

The way I see it, the Universities have the right to refuse entry to candidates that they deem to have insufficient or irrelevant qualifications, in the same way that the parents of these children have the right to send them to whichever school they feel fits with their particular (albeit backward) world view.

Anyway, what are they complaining about? If this Bob Jones University that wrote the text book is so great, why don't they send their kids there? Oh wait, you mean employers would laugh them out of the interview room? Oh dear, better get on the phone to your lawyer again...

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Jobs Halo

American Legal System in Rational Decision Shocker!!1

It truly highlights the shocking situation that both of our mature democracy's find themselves in, when we have to celebrate a decision that to any sane person seems obvious.

I despair that people even still read "Jesus's Bumper Book of Blags" but it to try and be passed of in a court of law, as anything other than a work of fiction with vague historical references really troubles me.

The sooner we can get Steve Jobs elevated to deity status and we can put the whole organised religion thing to bed.

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Anuimus?

So the judge is saying it's OK to reject credits (meaning qualifications?? that language thing again) provided you can prove the course didn't appeal to the male side of your nature.

You're screwed if you're on a cookery course then.

Of course the law is equal to all.. so it's OK for christian universities to ignore secular qualifications too, and black universities to ignore white qualifications, etc. etc.... what a mess the US has become..

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@Dodgy Geezer

I think the judge was right

"an Animus is an undead monster created through the use of both arcane and divine magic. They are unique to the Great Kingdom and its successor states. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animus+(Dungeons+%26+Dragons)

And the judge was right, the university was not acting like an undead monster.

- Joel

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Wait till Bush hears about this

He'll soon veto or undo it somehow, retarded bible-muppet that he is.

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Anonymous Coward

@Dodgy Geezer

From www.merriamwebster.com (An American dictionary)

Main Entry: an·i·mus Listen to the pronunciation of animus

Pronunciation: \ˈa-nə-məs\

Function: noun

Etymology: Latin, spirit, mind, courage, anger

Date: 1816

1 : basic attitude or governing spirit : disposition, intention

2 : a usually prejudiced and often spiteful or malevolent ill will

3 : an inner masculine part of the female personality in the analytic psychology of C. G. Jung — compare anima

An encyclopaedia will only cover def. 3 because the others are purely linguistic and are dictionary entries.

Jung didn't "invent" the word, as you can see it was around in 1816. 59 years before his birth and roughly 100 years before his use in this context.

I don't know if you're taking a swipe at the judge, Americans or wikipedia. However you miss on all three.

I think the learned judge meant 'animus' as that is what he said.

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Boffin

@Dodgy Geezer

Go look in the Concise Oxford Dictionary: animus: animosity in speech or action (second meaning)

</pedantry>

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Coat

"failed to adequately teach ....."

Dunno about Bob Jones University, but there's apparently some secondary school out there who failed to adequately teach about not splitting infinitives!

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@ Dodgy Geezer

Excuse me while I have a chuckle about the use of wikipedia as a reliable source.

Jung did not invent the word, unless of course he was around when the original Latin word was dreamed up, in Latin it means an intense dislike or hatred.

Good on the judge though, it should be up to the university about what they accept and don't.

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Happy

Wafflypedia.

There's a 'fun" edition? Where do I find this and exactly how does it differ from the better-known "turgid inaccurate crap" edition?

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Coat

Wow!!

I am amazed, a victory for common sense! I merely await the flames of religious wrath that are sure to imminently appear. I will therefore pre-emptively submit a riposte.

A US judge says a University can ignore a course that isn't academically rigorous and balanced. As far as I can tell he is not saying it can be rejected because it is religious. I think this is a good thing, the University should be allowed to decide what courses they consider are sufficiently balanced and rigorous to count towards their entry requirements.

Cheers... mine is the fireproof one...

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Coat

Hurray

Now, let's see if Oxford and Cambridge will have the guts to reject some of the stuff taught in some "acedemies" sponsored by the Taleban elder friends of Antonio Bliar.

After all it is not just the US where fanatic drivel is being used to brainwash kids. Thanks to Antonio Bliar we now got that too. Granted, it is not in such a blatant form, it is much more subtle, but we got it none the less.

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Dead Vulture

What happened to science in the US

"It appears the UC is attempting to secularize private religious schools,"

Not at all, if you wish to lie to your children you're welcome to, Just don't expect a university to take into account a student's excellent knowledge of Humpty Dumpty's moving personal story when applying for a veterinary course on poultry.

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Flame

Hypocrites.

"It appears the UC is attempting to secularize private religious schools."

Yes Jennifer Monk, you are part right - but it does only APPEAR that way. To the rest of us educated mortals this is a very sensible decision and is to be applauded. These fervent christian egos would try to block the use of the scientific method at all costs if they could, but then without shame try to accuse UC of secularisation when they make a decision to quite rightly denouce christian dogma as "truth".

When the revolution comes there won't be a wall long enough for these hypocrite idiots.

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Maybe there is hope for America after all

Clearly, not having even the most basic academic understanding necessary to complete the course, these students were intent on disrupting the teaching with constant interuptions and contradictory statements so this is a victory for common sense. It's just surprising that it has come from the US.

You do wonder whether we would have had the same outcome in the UK?

I did find the title of the book amusing. "A US History...". If, as the article suggests, it is based solely on the Bible, I don't recall the US getting much of a mention!

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US courts worthless

It's a reminder of how politicised the US court system is. After all, if the course is properly accredited, to ignore it merely because it's taught from a religious point of view is merely discrimination. The purpose of the judgement is to make it impossible to run (e.g.) Roman Catholic universities by derecognising their courses. That doesn't sound to me like something that a judge should be deciding; or, indeed, a politician.

Somehow I don't think that Moslem courses would get that treatment. So all we're dealing with is more politically correct hate against those they dislike. We really need a campaign to root out political correctness, it seems to me - the source of nearly all the bile, discrimination and interference with our rights in our days.

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Joke

Pfffft

haha

bwahahaha

ahaha

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA

"What do you mean all my course work isn't worth the paper it's printed on"

Reg Vardy, take note

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Stop

Objection!

This ruling clearly contradicts the evidence of the Bible, and is therefore unenforceable.

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At last! Some sign of sanity

I was most pleased to read this. It's good to see even in the teeth of sweeping fundamentalism the courts can at least act rationally.

-- Jon

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Yay!

<- Flames for the fires we shall all surely burn in!

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Paris Hilton

"...failed to adequately teach critical thinking and modern historical analytic methods."

... and this would be different from a secular US university in what way?

My middle year at a UK uni I went on an exchange to the US. I cleaned out their 300/400 level CompSci classes but the exams were multiple-choice. The correct answer was always the one lifted verbatim from the textbook written by the incumbent professor - all other answers which said the same thing were "wrong". At best it was knowledge accumulation - critical thinking didn't come into it.

Don't even get me started on how Americans deal with history!

Paris, because one US history major (university senior year) thought Paris was the capital of Europe

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Happy

trying to hold my feeling in but... can't...

Aaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

-breathe-

hahahahahahahahahahaha

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Advocates for Faith and Freedom.

It would seem to be from their title that 'faith' comes before 'freedom' in their philosophy.

Tells you all you need to know.

Good decision by the Judge, IMHO.

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Some tolerance of us religious fanatics, please!

We of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster abhor the intolerance of all who seek to prevent anybody from holding religious views, however ridiculous.

We are one in brother- and sister-hood with those cruelly persecuted by the university in this way.

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Happy

:D

News like this makes me smile.

The thought that people believe the Bible is 100% true makes me laugh aloud.

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no different

from me writing a thesis stating star wars is real...

seriously - when is the bible belt going to realise everyone else thinks they are nuts? surely higher education and fairy tales dont go hand in hand. higher education is about learning yourself not being told to believe all this make believe rubbish

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Silver badge

Infallibility of scripture

No kidding. Only idiots claim the bible is absolutely infallible. This is why christian creeds since the very first have called the Bible "inspired by god" - and made sure to point out that it was written by imperfect men. The perfectly inspired word of god is infallible, but we aren't.

No comment on the court case though. I don't have enough information to judge and when it comes to christians (or any religious people) in court, there's always more detail tot he arguments than the media lets on.

Also, where's the Paris and IT angles? I see neither!

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NB
Flame

oh lol

Bunch of religious nutcases are being told they're idiots. Which they clearly are. Religion and Education should never mix, in fact, the sooner we abolish that bloody awful culturally perpetuated mental illness that is religion the better.

Face it. It's bollocks, complete and utter bollocks.

"Hello Mr Skyfairy! Save me from my so-called sins, defined by 2000 year old text written by a bunch of misogynists who clearly needed to take some drugs and get laid, because you know, like, something... ummm yes all the problems that faced them and their ideas on sexuality and critical thinking are SOOO FUCKING RELEVANT to the world today..."

I think not. Religion == Bullshit. It's a fact, get over it. You may stop your internal dialogue. Grow the fuck up and put your pathetic psychological crutch down.

To quote the wisdom of the internet:

"Christianity:

The belief that some cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force for your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

Makes perfect sense."

The same basically applies to all religions, so let's have a little rationality here and stop polluting childrens minds with this steaming pile of guilt ridden social control-oriented horse shit.

Thank you, now here's Tom with the weather.

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Reason prevails

in California, of all places.

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Coat

IT astounds me..

..everytime i read crap like this, how the hell this shit can happen in one of the most wealthy countries of the world. We humans are truely one fucked up bunch.

After i grab my coat, i shall go start working on launching my own suicide cult. It's the white, robelike one. Thanks.

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Coat

*sigh*

Do I correctly interpret Ms. Monk's comment to mean that my coursework in Afghanistan on applied chemistry at the Taliban High School should also be recognised?

Mine's the one with the copy of 'Practical applications of unstable compounds' by Prof. bin Laden in the pocket

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Kinda inappropriate, but ...

... it makes me want to shout "hallelujah!" ;-)

Maybe the yanks are finally starting the long march away from godbotherdom

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Coat

Amen

Amen to that!

Mine's the one with the spear hole in the side

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Boffin

Not recognising is not the same as forcing a change

The fact is simply that people can still learn whatever they want, however a state institution does not have to recognise courses that don't meet minimum standards. This is by the way not restricted to "Christian versions" of courses, since substandard courses from regular colleges also get ignored.

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Stop

Silly judges...don't they know better??

Oh come ON people, don't you know that you have to accept any faith-based silliness that comes masquerading as "teaching" these days? So please judges, please accept these teachings that religions motivations matter more than personal will and inventiveness, please accept the teaching of religious dogma pretending to be factual and historical, and please pretend that these 5 students got some edukatun while at their Christian-themed worship sessions, er, high school.

And then while you are at it, please accept MY children's high-school classwork in black-magic, spells and potions, Druid culture and history, and the physics of levitation as real qualifying coursework for transfer credits. They are just as well based in historical facts as any Christian-themed teachings, and have actually been around longer...

Was going to use the "IT?" symbol, but frankly this kind of stuff impacts the US's ability to produce thinking, educated students that will populate our industry, so I guess it is very important in the long run...

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Jobs Halo

Mythjudgment

How dare this university ignore course credits from the BJU. I bet they recognise and give credit to the diligent study of other mythologies, such as Greek, Hindu, Norse, Chinese, etc.

Why pick on the Christians?

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Anonymous Coward

Advocates for Faith and Freedom

Faith and Freedom; An oxymoron surely?

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