"Georgian internet servers were owned by foreign attackers on Thursday"
I beleave the tecnical term is Pwnd.
Conflict between Georgia and Russia on the ground has been accompanied by the relaunch of cyber-attacks against Georgian government websites. The Georgian presidential (www.president.gov.ge) and other government websites (such as www.parliament.ge) were left inaccessible by assaults over the weekend, in a repeat of attacks in …
"Georgian internet servers were owned by foreign attackers on Thursday"
I beleave the tecnical term is Pwnd.
(I haven't really been following this, so may be wrong, but...)
Let me get this straight, Russia marches into Georgian territory with tanks and sh*t, then a Russian hacker takes down a Georgian website and gets arrested for it? So Russia can invade and shoot people, but they can't break a website? Is it just me, or does that not make sense to anyone else?
So what's the plan if Russia takes Georgia?
Man, I wish we had top class leadership in the west, instead of the B team, Brown, Bush and Barroso...
Can we now assume that this is a Russian pre-invasion tactic much like the traditional artillery bombardment to soften up the enemy before the troops went in? So I guess we to be extra vigilant the next time we get a series of DOS attacks otherwise we might wake up the next morning having to learn the Cyrillic alphabet.
"Unconfirmed reports claim ..." I believe the technical term is Spin.
To be fair the Russian Tanks rolled in after the Georgian tanks rolled in.
Lets face it the Georgians refuse to recognise Assetian identity (a bit like saying that the Welsh arn't Welsh becouse there is no Wales only England, and then flat out refuting the existance of Wales.)
But whatever, both sides in this are shifty f----rs and I thought it was hysterical that George Bush said that the force was unnecessary (Iraq/Afghanistan anybody? What joker.)
The nasty spew of vitriol from Russians, Russian expats or out-and-out shills that cover the major British newspaper sites is sickening. Surely The Times can afford a little comment moderation.
Those wacky Russians are good for a threesome behind the Roundhouse (**sigh**), but not much else ... how my mood at the Rocket Group has improved since then!
usually the us invades it's own puppet nations?
South Assetia views itself as independent and has run its own affairs since a war in 1992 (it failed to gain recognition for its independence) however since the conflict it had ran its own affairs.
The other day claiming that "Georgian" villages in the area were under attack and that Russian Peacekeepers were doing nothing the Georgians moved their military (which they had been amasing just outside of the autonomous region) into the region and seized control.
The Russians responded. Also apparently at some point a number of people were killed by Georgian shelling.
South Assetians want to be united with North Assetia (supposedly) North Assetia being an autonomous region within the Russian Federation.
Assetia being habitated by Russians who fled during the Mongol expansion...
Russia of course having an organised military force, doesn't do things half heartedly and of course took out military and civilian installations that support forces operating in the contested zone (not to do so would be putting their soldiers in danger.) Think the Coalition destroying all of Iraqs military support apparatus when they retook Kuwait.
It's a rather complex situation, that has been put over in a rather one sided way in the Media... Kind of a shame as I thought we were past the old "evil Russian bear" thing, not that I think for a moment they're blameless in the situation, but it defently seems like both the Georgian government and Russian Government are playing a wide number of games in the theatre.
Notice how most people speaking on the side of Russia on the BBC have strong Russian accents and are rather emotional and angry. Where as the Georgians are all very well spoken with easy to understand accents, often playing the sympathy card. A nice subtle piece of mind games there I think.
Anyway don't take the media at face value on this one, look up a bit of the history first.
"To be fair the Russian Tanks rolled in after the Georgian tanks rolled in."
Important point: into Georgia. And now the Russians are invading Georgia itself, not just South Ossetia. And bombing all over Georgia. Feel a fool now, hmm?
Not really, who on Earth would mount a military operation with suppressing the opponents ability to act within the conflict zone?
I think the people who should feel fools are the ones that set the precedent with the dismemberment of Serbia, hmm?
Pull that roosting chicken out of your arse.
I would have thought that as an ex-Soviet territory on a collision course with Moscow, Georgia would have learnt from the experience of Estonia and Lithuania and sorted out their DDoS defences before they decided to test the Russians military response capabilities.
IMHO, Well since then the Russians have captured bases inside Georgia, so it's clear they're going to grab the whole country and South Ossetia is just an excuse. Look at the mountains that run down the border between North and South Ossetia and it's pretty clear that 'Ossetia' is a country in name only just from the geography.
He'll throw accusations around, get his Moscow stooges to denounce Georgia, typical KGB tactic while his army massacres them. Once he has Georgia he controls the oil pipeline from to Europe.
This cybershit is nothing IMHO, some jingoistic Russians script kiddies. Starting a DDOS against all government websites would be a warning if anything of an impending attack, without serving a useful purpose, so they wouldn't do it.
I hope we don't get sidetracked into this cyber war shit when tanks and planes are bombing Tbilisi.
Back to the point of this article. Isn't it curious that these hackers rise up in support of Mother Russia when she is in conflict? Haven't heard much about American hackers attacking Iran government sites.
Isn't it more likely that they are being controlled, to some degree, by the KGB/GRU, or what ever they are called now days.
Currently the http://www.parliament.ge/ site shows only an image of various fascists and "hacked by South Ossetia Hack Crew".
It's not just DoS attacks ... check the first link I posted and you'll learn that Russia entities (supposedly) are re-routing or blocking traffic intended for Georgia cyberspace. Check out the routing map provided.
>"(I haven't really been following this, so may be wrong, but...)"
In light of what's coming next, that disclaimer is pretty funny. Tell us, if you haven't been following (and haven't bothered to spend five minutes googling the old news), what possible reason could you have for believing you know anything about it at all?
>"Let me get this straight, Russia marches into Georgian territory with tanks and sh*t, then a Russian hacker takes down a Georgian website and gets arrested for it? So Russia can invade and shoot people, but they can't break a website? Is it just me, or does that not make sense to anyone else?"
Errr... the reason it seems so crazy to you is because you got it backwards in time and reversed all the roles of the actors involved. What actually happened was that a Russian hacker took down a Georgian website and got arrested by the Georgians for it. Then - THIS year, rather than last - Russia marched in with "tanks and sh*t", in fact they sh*t the place up real bad, and last I heard they're still sh**ting at everyone.
Now, I'm sure the Georgian police would /like/ to arrest them for that, if they could, but I doubt it's really an option.
not content with having americas hand up their ass, georgia takes the strategic decision to start shelling innocent civilians and russian citizens during the olympics to try to start WW3. Their parliament declares 15 days of war with russia ('cause 14 and 16 day wars are rubbish, obviously??).
What shit for brains they are!
"not content with having americas hand up their ass, georgia takes the strategic decision to start shelling innocent civilians and russian citizens during the olympics to try to start WW3."
Rubbish, Russia has an army in South Ossetia, it's occupied it for a decade.
"Their parliament declares 15 days of war with russia "
4 days *After* Russia invades Georgia.
Putin is in charge, shows you what a sham the Russian election was. It means we can't continue treating Russia as stable or democratic, we can't rely on it's oil or gas.
Oh well , here we go again the old Forty Sides to every coin propaganda being spewed up by all (very much like the Spanish Civil War in another past Century ) with both sides saying they did this , thus we did that tit for tat style , and the ever helpful wankees ladling the sanctimonious nonsensical mindless drivel and crap from the DC chimps A*&$@ adding more oil and gas to the flames they help to create as well too in the first place of playing up yours too poker (perhaps they they may be able to rescue the errant ones from Ft Bragg and Camp Pendleton caught in the front line meat grinder that modern warfare has become to replaces the horrors of the trenches of the old 1914-18 event or perhaps not !)
As one would say too many wrongs just add heat to the flames and itch old past unhealed self imaginary sores of bygone eras in the long recorded but biased history of the zone in question !
However we soon forget the so called Rose Revolution merely exchanged one mostly corrupt regime with an even corrupter one that had direct links to the criminal element within the very fabric of it's society allowing evil to breed unchecked . Thus Corruption breeds corruption ad infinitum and the simple fact that some one once pointed out that since the Rose Revolution and the arrival of the wankee sponsored replacement very rotten fish called shaddock , approximately 70% of the countries budget was directed to military build up rather then the usual health , education , pensions and fair justice for all etc !
As for borders they are merely imaginary lines drawn on maps by politicians and diplomats with very sharp knives held at their throats at the conference tables dependent on who won or lost that particular border realignment war that day irrespective of the wishes of those who lived or those who left for safer climates taking the ever festering bad memories to infect the next generation neglecting to mention the so called honorable displaced ones ancestors too had a hand in evicting the previous residents at the point of the knife of go now or else within the often meandering but ever changing boundaries in time !
But then again it is basic human nature to covet the next door residents land across the border as it always seems to be managed far far better then your plot which goes to seed as you continue to drown your sorrows day in and day out at the local taverna wishing for the good old days Ghenghis Khan style of ownership whilst neglecting to tend the family plot properly !
Choices in world full of absolute propaganda from all media outlets from a through z including the intertubes in this 21st century where every one on both sides of the disputed border territory claim that they fired first and then applied the illogical dumb and very stupid mindless Serbian Scorched Earth Policy for retribution as the fighting rages back and forth now that is the truly evil aspect of all wars where even the winners become losers and all the participants still lose in the win lose or draw situation that comes from stalemates which merely add another layer of festering imaginary sores to the icing on the cake !
the fact that both Putin and Bush were in China when it happened. A little too coincidental, considering how Bush "looked into Putin's soul" and found it a good business partner during his first term in office.
Also add that the American media has been talking about an "October surprise", and you have the makings of a setup. And I'm not buying into it. Bush set the precedent for the "New Colonialism" with his unilateral invasion of Iraq, then China supports Myanmar rebels to overturn that government to China-friendly status, and now Russia tries to take over Georgia. Next, you'll see an Anschluss with USA, Canada and Mexico over some drug-lord or gang-related reasons (or simply to offset the EU's power), Russia will re-form the Soviet Union, and China will get back Vietnam, Taiwan and South Korea (maybe Japan, Laos and the rest of Southeast Asia, too). Call it border states, colonies or anything else, it still stinks of the same shit any way you look at it. That stink is the stink of dead bodies, created by wars that didn't need to be fought.
Jolly Roger, now that the Pirate Nations of Sauron/Morgoth are moving their hands openly. Unfortunately, there's no One Ring to destroy in this case (and no Shire, either, unless it's Australia).
If you live next door to a giant bear you dont go and kick him in the nuts in front of all his friends and expect him not to come and wipe the floor with you. Georgia wants to be part of NATO so we would have to go and defend them in the same way the first world war started. I say leave em to it, we'll steal our oil from the middle east instead!
"Rubbish, Russia has an army in South Ossetia, it's occupied it for a decade."
err... so what exactly is "rubbish", you fail to counter any of my points. Care to highlight other armies in the region??
" "Their parliament declares 15 days of war with russia " "
"4 days *After* Russia invades Georgia." "
Liar: here are the facts for you:
SATURDAY 9 AUGUST
The Georgian parliament approves a presidential decree declaring a "state of war".
SUNDAY 10 AUGUST
Georgia ordered its troops to begin a ceasefire, its forces withdrawn from South Ossetia and that the Russians are fully in control in Tskhinvali (south ossetia) - source georgian gov. spokesman.
Your statement is false AC, even the georgian government disagrees with you.
You are confusing ossetia with georgia.
"we can't rely on it's oil or gas."
"you can't rely on any oil and gas PERIOD!" thats why this puppet was parachuted into georgia complete with an accent, hair cut and suit, straight out the backdoor of the local us embassy. His job was to secure the BTC oil pipeline heading west and not provoke any trouble with russia.
He will be replaced shortly after this stupid attack on russian citizens.
"...get paul bremer on the phone...asap!"
On November 6, 1991, the KGB officially ceased to exist. Its services were divided into two separate organizations; the FSB for Internal Security and the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) for Foreign Intelligence Gathering. The Federalnaya Sluzhba Bezopasnosti (FSB) is functionally much like the Soviet KGB
"I think the people who should feel fools are the ones that set the precedent with the dismemberment of Serbia, hmm?"
Well, Russia-Chechnya anyone? The Russians are even worse. Now Serbia was a little bit different; Russia managed to mobilize it's army within a couple of hours. Does that not strike anyone as strange?
"Rubbish, Russia has an army in South Ossetia, it's occupied it for a decade."
Russian 'peace keeping' army is in South Ossetia, really an occupation force. Russian invaded Georgia, Georgia declared a state of war SUNDAY *after* the Russian invasion IN RESPONSE TO, the Russian attacks. No, this is an excuse to try to divide the Europeans & Americans.
"You are confusing ossetia with georgia."
There is no such place as Ossetia, there is SOUTH OSSETIA which is in Georgia and is south of the mountains and there is NORTH OSSETIA which is in Russia and north of the mountains. The mountains DIVIDE them. Russian sent it's army into South Ossetia in Georgia in force. It send a second army in from the west by sea, a clear pincer movement.
Putin came out and did a bunch of disinformation, accusing Georgia of genocide and USA of interference in Georgia. Georgia has not chosen to be aligned with Russia, so this is an invasion. The fact Putin is doing his disinformation means this is a full scale invasion.
Now they claim their action in Georgia has ended. Bollocks, that will be some more misinformation to delay the deployment of the NATO airforce.
IMHO, Georgia has been invaded, we should deploy the airforce immediately to take control of Georgian airspace, blockade the East with ships and destroy the invading Russian ground forces. There is no excuse for this, if he takes the oil pipeline, he controls *stans oil outlet to Europe and can threaten Iran. It's better the west stops the invasion at the mountains in Georgia rather than let Putin control the bulk of the worlds oil supply.
Then we need to reexamine the dependency on Russia for fuel. We cannot allow a situation where a turn of the tap, he can walk right over Europe. The man is an old style KGB empire builder, fake elections and all.
Yeah, fair enough, I did get it completely backwards. That's what I get for casting my eye over the Daily Mail.
So they way I now understand it is the media over here is manipulating the stories to portray either the Georgians or the Russians as the 'bad guys' whereas neither of them are particularly angelic.
Going back to the topic of the article (which someone mentioned above), it is interesting that Russia is supporting the land war with cyberspace attacks as well.
If the Georgians did start this (I'm not saying they didn't I'm just covering my bases) then surely the message to take away from this is don't piss off the Russians
Fortunatly you arn't in charge or else there would probably be several billion dead people in a few months time.
Georgia over played its hand and got stuffed. They wagered that the Russians wouldn't respond to it reclaiming South Ossetia what with the Olympic games going on, they were however wrong.
They poked a wasp nest with a stick and got what normally happens when you do.
It's a very interesting situation though.
In that Chechnya is a de jure _and_ de facto part of the Russian Federation. (like Kosovo was of Serbia). That principle didn't stop Clinton bombing targets all over Serbia proper to let Albania annex Kosovo in stages. Furthermore, I suspect very, very few Albanians were in possession of US citizenship. Of course with Chechnya there will be no Western intervention.
Anybody with an iota of sense could see the malicious intent from countries like Germany and the US when precipitating the breakup of Yugoslavia and later carving up of Serbia, and the implications this could have for former Soviet republics.
SO has a greater case for secession from Georgia than Kosovo had from Serbia. It had a independence referendum that the same powers that pathetically fell over themselves to recognize an independent Kosovo didn't recognise, This incarnation of its borders are very new and included a secessionist minority on creation, and SO has had de facto autonomy within Georgia.
That the Russians are now playing the Western powers' vile game in Georgia can't really come as a surprise, can it? - after all you took the game to them, by threatening its borders and dismembering its allies. Tune into the same channel for updates on the Baltic states as the Russian minorities get emboldened.
"Fortunatly you arn't in charge or else there would probably be several billion dead people in a few months time."
Our energy supply *is* our lifeline and Georgia is not part of Russia. South Ossetia is not Russian, they are invaders.
Russia is a repeat offender, they will lie through their teeth, accept ceasefire after ceasefire, accuse Georgia of breaking the ceasefire then attack some more and take more ground. When Russia has control of the pipeline it will be too late to stop them.
If Russia controls our oil supply they control Europe not just the Eastern part.
before invading territories whose population was fighting to stay
OUTSIDE Georgia since the beginning (few remember that Georgia
seceded by the Soviet Union with borders made by Stalin - himself
a Georgian - it is reasonable to think that Stalin did not really take
into consideration opinion of local population) the very much
"democratically elected" Mikhail Saakashvili was doing...
have a look here
" Riot police used tear gas, rubber bullets and water cannon to disperse thousands of protesters on 7 November and Mr Saakashvili imposed a 15-day period of special measures. These included a ban on public rallies and the muzzling of opposition media. Only the official media were allowed to broadcast."
frankly speaking this guy was previously beating his owns therefore
it is quite reasonable to think that he had first blood in killing South-Ossetian
AC, It's only an "occupation force" IF THE PEOPLE THERE DON'T WANT IT THERE. It's presence for peacekeeping duties was established by georgian presidential decree and it is maintained because the people want it there to maintain their independence from georgia and keep the civilians safe from georgian aggression.
South ossetia has independence from georgia, you can deny that all you want AC, but the people there want independence and are not likely to be persuaded to join georgia by dropping shells on civilians heads.
"The mountains divide them", oh, so where there is a mountain range, that automatically equals a national border does it?
"....we should deploy the airforce (8 jets at last count!) immediately to take control of Georgian airspace, blockade the East with ships and destroy the invading Russian ground forces"
what a joke.