woohoo

Crazy pigs using lowest common denominator to justify their crazy plans. Shame I already live in England, we set the low water mark for freedom, honesty, efficency, productivity and invetigative ability, and the rest of Europe shall use us a shinning beacon of oppression for all to follow into the night.

But at least he's using the old adage "if it's worth doing it's worth doing right" even if the end result is a useless piss poor pot. No longer will inevstigators have to use a fine scalple to find excellent results - instead they shall throw a sausage down a wide ally in the hope that it hits the sides to fit someone up.

An "alibi"

is a "plea of having been elsewhere at the time when any alleged act took place". Even the weakened sense of an "excuse" doesn't match with "infecting a crime scene with someone else's DNA".

I suppose there are two main approaches here:

1. Put the DNA from a particular person at the scene in order to divert police attention onto that person.

2. Scatter dust collected from the London Underground over the crime scene, i.e. DNA from thousands of people. If they do find your DNA and you get charged you can dismiss the DNA evidence by pointing out that you are just one of thousands whose DNA was found.

The difference is that in the second case you are not trying to hide the fact that the DNA record was deliberately polluted.

I don't know how you want to call these two techniques (no doubt the criminal classes will soon invent terms if they don't already have them) but I don't think "alibi" is a good start.

Not surprising really...

as this CC is angling for the top Met job after his tenure at Strathclyde and it looks as though he is trying to please his prospective political masters (i.e. Westminster, not Holyrood).

How the feck did we end up in this 1984 society?

What abuse?

With widespread use people will be more familiar with DNA at trial and it'll acquire the status such evidence deserves. That is, rather more limited than it is now.

The Alibi guy, well yes, that would de-value the evidence, but the risk that someone has managed to do that successfully hardly devalues the entire database concept. Besides, it depends where they got the DNA sample if it's blood from broken glass then you still have a problem.

False positives would still be subject to explanations and alibis. With a massive use of DNA evidence it would lose its magic and a conviction on DNA alone would be very hard.

Of course, visitors would have to be sampled too, after all, when you have large numbers of samples the risk of a chance match increases.

So, really the question is how will it be abused?

Not particularly in favour of it, not least because of the hassle of going down the station to leave a sample.

@A Baird : I'm now, finally, ashamed to be a sweaty sock.

Isn't that rhyming slang for a cock?

Anyone seen Dexter?

Of course, Plod *always* has an excuse for leaving their DNA at the scene of a crime.Anyone seen Dexter??

I saw that in SassenachLand the PlodAssociation refuse to allow their members DNA to be profiled/handed over to private companies for 'research purposes', but it's OK for everyone else's to be.

I wonder if the Scottish Federation feels the same way?? I guess so.

Britain really has turned into a 'them v us' Authoritarian State. Sure, it doesn't have the jackboots - but in some ways that makes it worse. Glad I left a few years ago.

BTW - a retired Scots cop told me all the senior cops are now known as "Eternal Flames"; i.e like the flames you see at war memorials...as in 'never been out'.

So even the rank and file think their top bosses are useless politicians!

Remember Shirley McKie

It would be interesting to know what has actually been done to correct the demonstrable flaws in the criminal justice system before introducing another supposedly foolproof indicator of guilt.

http://www.shirleymckie.com/index.htm

Re: 'Jock'?

What do you expect from a bunch of southern fairies? ;)

Re: 'Jock'?

Damn right. I'd be embarrassed to see a twerp like him classified as a real Scotsman. However, in this case the word is possibly being using in the American sense of a large beefy prat who thinks with the contents of his underwear.

top jock

Apologies to anyone offended by Jock in the headline - it wasn't meant to be derogatory - I wouldn't want to upset our Edinburgh office apart from anything else...

@A Baird

The numerous "jock" references have given me the required insight now... ;)

> 'Oi, get that sweaty sock outta my face!'

So said when you have a Scotsman attached to your face?

Never really had that problem.... Must be a forces thing...

Stephen House

Stephen House is obviously a supporter of the Police State that the UK has become. Mr House should keep his big mouth shut and get on with Policing. Seems his force cannot do its job properly or else he would not need to rely on DNA. What has changed that suddenly they need DNA database for everyone ?

@ Anonymous Coward

'When will the police & politicians finally realise that they cannot keep erode our liberties without getting a backlash from the public.'

Y'know, I'm not sure the British people have a limit. Year after year more and more liberties are taken away and hardly anyone gives a crap - ask people about DNA databases and they regurgitate the 'Crimewatch' line.

I'm sure its down to three things:

1: the crap educational level of the average Briton who knows nothing about - oooh the law, politics, history (and the rest);

2: the fact we don't have a written constitution - take the US, most Americans know what their rights are (in the broadest sense) and where to find them. Who here knows the relevant pieces of legislation that gives us our very limited rights; and;

3: we've never been under a domestic dictatorship or occupied by a foreign power - go to mainland Europe and they all have personal experience or recent family experience of what its like to have a secret police force, detention without trial, the removal of undesirables etc.

Put those three together and you have a smug, complacent, thick-as-pigshit population who can be exploited by anyone with an agenda.

This country is broken, time to take it back and demand a new one.

Re: Bulldog Bash

"At the "Bulldog Bash" (biker fest) at Long Marston Warwickshire police have closed surrounding roads to ensure that only one entrance is available. The ACC of Warwickshire stated that this was to to allow them to search all vehicles and people entering. Never mind the inconvenience that other members of the public are put to!"

Then you might want to take some direction from the Climate Camp. They decided that waiting 1-4 hours to be searched and have their camping gear confiscated went a little bit beyond being "detained for a brief period" (as plod are allowed to) so about a hundred or so people just ignored them and entered the camp.

There's not really a lot they can do when people, en masse, refuse to acknowledge their authority - especially if it happens to be a load of bikers rather than hippies.

who is keeping an eye on them?

I would not be against a system whereby all filth had to be filmed when on duty at all times by a third party and we could watch online to decide if they were up to scratch. Then vote them out if not. Also, publish their home addresses online.

After all, if they've got nothing to hide.

@woohoo By Anonymous Coward

Let's hope that mandatory DNA sampling isn't brought in for offences of criminal spelling... :-)

@Sweaty Sock

That'll be one of those ones with a billiard ball in it then?

Next Step...

Surely is to have our National Insurance Numbers tattood in a convenient location (say on the inside of the wrist).

Can't think why it's not been done before...

@anonymous coward

Interesting facts. The police in Merseyside are so overwhelmed with applications they take 1 in 200. I don't see any shortage just yet.

I'll leave signing up for such a worthless shower to those who admire them so much.

@David Neil

How can they be corrupt AND turn on one of their own? Surely the fact that they suspected even a police officer shows no one is above the law?

But the point is fingerprints were no more of a magic bullet than DNA evidence. neither are 100% reliable and jurys need to understand that and give them the _appropriate_ consideration.

@grahame

You think police don't show up on CCTV as well? Its a double edged sword that way.

@AC

"What has changed that suddenly they need DNA database for everyone"

There are an increasing number of offences and a decreasing number of police to detect and investigate them?

Missed out on the subtext

"Jock's Trap For Underworld".

I think

Think that this would not go over to well here in the US. We've shot politician for less

Harumph!

Apart from the odd vague harumph there's not really any sound reason to oppose this..

I suppose the question is, would it actually improve the clear-up rate?

@ Mike Richards

Well said, every so often the question is raised in parliament for the formation of a British constitution and is always thrown out. Our nanny state masters would have a much harder time introducing the ridiculous controls they do if the population had a constitution to refer back to.

As for a Scottish DNA database, I wonder what William Wallace's reaction would have been?

just addressing some things..

I (too) wondered for a minute.. if he was English would it be mentioned? But TO BE FAIR I think the reason for his Scottishness being mentioned is because Scottish law is the exception ...He is proposing a change to Scottish law..

I hope so anyway, as I'm already aware of quite a bit of anti-Scottishness or at least constant belittling whenever Scotland or Gordon Brown is mentioned. (Mostly by posters not authors) His nationality must ALWAYS be pointed out.

Gordon Brown; not a man, not simply the UK Prime Minister like Tony Blair was. No, a Scottish man. A Scottish man who dares to be in charge of the UK/England. A complete idiot, someone who has managed to ruin Britain in months, compared to the Saint that was Tony Blair.

The worst PM ever, announced after mere days as the front man.

Anyway, as for the title...? I can understand that some people might not know the word 'Jock' is offensive to Scots. It's not so much the word that is offensive (many people don't find it offensive) It's really what or who is behind it. It's almost exclusively used by English people towards Scots, and almost always in a negative way. Which is part of the problem here. It's a negative story and uses the word Jock thus there is suspicion/anger. Hope that clears it up a bit.

@Math Campbell

I'd like to hear more about that policy you mentioned to stifle the Scottish economy. Is anything online?