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back to article Knights Templar to Vatican: Give us back our assets

The Knights Templar are demanding that the Vatican give them back their good name and, possibly, billions in assets into the bargain, 700 years after the order was brutally suppressed by a joint venture between the Pope and the King of France. If the Holy See doesn’t comply, the warrior knights, renowned for liberating the Holy …

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Joke

That's exactly

what you'd expect them to say!

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notwithstanding

conspiracy theorists will probably not comment because this is all preparation for what is to come, no need to say anything, 2012 will reveal all.

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Coat

I can see the response now...

The money's yours when you tell us where you hid the Grail.

Mine was used as a prop in Foucault's Pendulum ;)

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Flame

Bugger...

I NEED the Catholic Church to exist, for my continued existence!

Vaporise-proof coat needed.

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Coat

'Nothing exists'?

Sounds more Zen than Knights Templar to me.

Mine's the one with no spoon.

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Sam
Coat

Tah da daah!

"No-one expects..." OK, I'll fuck off.

Again.

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Anonymous Coward

Matrix?

“Please don’t expect to be enlightened with some supposed ‘secret’ knowledge, because nothing exists.”

So nothing exists right? Damn....

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Joke

@notwithstanding

#We are the priests of the temples of Syrinx?

Oh, sorry, that's 2112... ;)

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Coat

Nothing exists ...

I'm rather taken with the epistemology involved in the statement "... <True> Nothing<ness> exists".

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What is the link?

Between the original Templars and the organisation that makes the claim? Any organisation can call itself "The Knights Templar" or some derivative thereof, but that doesn't mean that they are legitimate heirs of any assets the original Templars might have had, no matter how closely they model their organisation on the original.

In any case, historical claims are suspect in any case. Denmark might as well claim to get the city of York back, as it was founded by the Danes and "unrightfully" taken from them by the Saxons. Once a certain period of time has passed, current occupation of land or material assets is what matter.

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Anonymous Coward

"smashed"

In Spain, the order did survive intact, albeit with a name change, so this bunch could be legit if they are who they claim to be (the Knights of Christ even kept the same logo, like a red Iron Cross). The brutal suppression only really took place in France, and even there the only knights to suffer were those who refused to confess or who withdrew their confessions. The majority of individual knights simply took some penance and joined the Hospitalers. In Germany, a challenge to trial by combat resulted in the order being hastily declared innocent while in England, where the order had always been very close to the crown, the king deliberately dithered to allow the knights to escape to freedom in Scotland, which he would come to regret later when they took up arms against him.

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Joke

@Andrew Abdul-Malek

"No need to say anything, 2012 will reveal all."

The Knights Templar are sponsoring the Olympics?

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Good!

"We are not trying to cause the economic collapse of the Roman Catholic Church, but to illustrate to the court the magnitude of the plot against our Order."

You blatently are you greedy bastards, and I'm with you all the way. Well played.

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Render unto Caesar......

Presumably the Masons/Templars want returned to them all the treasures which were willingly donated to them all those centuries ago. They weren't looted, stolen and confiscated or anything like that of course. Oh no.

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Jobs Halo

The way It was explained to me

in my (admittedly jewish) school was that the knigits templar where a bunch of racist greedy arse hole frenchmen and deserved everything they got.... which was disbandment and the knowledge they ballsed up the middle east for everyone.

obviously thats a pretty one sided view, but I cant help but wonder why they think they deserve their "good name" back after everything they did.

for the first time ever Im on the side of the vatican...

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Anonymous Coward

Real property rights vs Intellectual Property Rights

Well here we have an interesting case. A group suing to get back their REAL property back from 700 years ago.

Not a hope in hell of it happening, since the witnesses from that age are all dead, the documents are largely non existent and their claim to have the original rights is unprovable after so long.

But it does raise an interesting point, since the copyright lobby is determined to extend copyright indefinitely.... if you can't determine ownership of *real* property after 700 years, how will you determine ownership of something more vague, intellectual property rights?

700 years is only 5.8 generations of copyright under the present Sony Bono system. It's already not that long.

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Alert

Nothing exists?

“Please don’t expect to be enlightened with some supposed ‘secret’ knowledge, because nothing exists.”

What? Nothing at all?

Sounds like their PR people had a 'Baldrick, deny everything' moment.

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While they're at it...

How about some other Franco-Catholic attrocities, such as the "Crusade" against the Cathars, ie the genocide in the Languedoc in the early 13th century, executed in part by our very own Simon de Montfort, and the St Bartholomew's Day massacre of 1572?

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Flame

@Historical Claims

"In any case, historical claims are suspect in any case. Denmark might as well claim to get the city of York back, as it was founded by the Danes and "unrightfully" taken from them by the Saxons. Once a certain period of time has passed, current occupation of land or material assets is what matter."

Yes. Exactly. Otherwise, all those Europeans whose forefathers stole land from the native (Americans, Africans, Australians, Maories, etc., etc.) would have to fuck off back where they came from!

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2nd Hand Biro Business?

"....they discovered only a small asteroid inhabited by a solitary old man who claimed repeatedly that nothing was true, though he was later discovered to be lying." HHGTTG/DNA

So the Knights Templar are in fact the source of Zaphod Beeblebrox's highly profitable second-hand biro business?

Seriously - we need a Zaphod icon.

And the proper Mark Wing-Davey Zaphod....not the godawful Sam Rockwell version

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Smacked in the Gobface

Ha ha... sneakily obtuse as ever, the "Secret Knowledge" is hidden in plain sight cast like pearls before swine who roughly grasp it, through it to the ground and trample upon it as if it was so much crud. Shame on you.

It is of course the mindblowing, but true, assertion: "nothing exists". Reality is, in fact, what Schrodingers cat experiences before the box is opened.

And you lot thought it was a tautology, non-sequitur or worse! Gad is great.

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Boffin

The reason the calim is being made in Spain

Is because Spanish judges have a history of making ridiculous judgments & indictments of things well outside of Spanish sovereignty.

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Pirate

Yes, justice must be done.

Yes, since the spanish courts appear to have such a grandiouse righteous sense of justice, please send this €100bn to all of your ex-colonies in the new world.

Thank you.

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Coat

Surprised no-one has mentioned...

... that supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical aquatic ceremony.

Coat. Running away. Bravely.

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Silver badge
Go

Templars vs catholics

If you see a leech in a fight with a digger wasp, do you care who wins?

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Thumb Down

That would be an ECUMENICAL matter

So - where's the blasted Paris Hilton or IT angle?

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IT Angle

I think I've spotted

the next commodity boom: coconut halves to make clippity-cloppity horsey sounds whilst yelling "Ni, ni, ni".

This is a Monty Python sketch, right?

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Coat

Why do I need a title?

Earlier this morning Abstergo, a company formed from the Knights Templars, announced that they were giving up the Animus experiments seeing as all the "subjects" kept going mad. Insteead they are just going to "ask" the catholic Church for their "Piece of Eden" back so that they can continue on the path to world domin......erm peace.

They are atleast asking nicely this time instead of making war with the holy land. Reasons for this change of tactic may be related to the 500 year old unsolved murders of 10 of their top commanders. These murders have continue to haunt them to this day as they (Abstergo) still havent managed to bring peace to the world. History must ask itself, "What would the world be like today if they had succeeded?"

/ok Im not willing to spend anymore time on that.

Mines the one with the blood soaked feather on it.

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Boffin

Erm... what law covers "orders"?

I mean, seriously.

First of all, even if we accept that this lot are a genuine continuing faction of the original Knights Templar, we also know for sure that they were not the only faction to continue after the split, so if we are to use corporate law, then we must see the disestablishment of the order as a demerger. As a single party, this body cannot claim ownership of all the assets of the order.

But that assumes that the order of the Knights Templar was a corporate body to begin with. Do we not recognise the Knights as merely a business unit operating under the Holy See? They had the same tax privileges as any other part of the church (ie no taxes paid to the host country, only to the Vatican), so I hardly see it as qualifying as a wholly-owned subsidiary.

If they were a wholly-owned subsidiary, then it might be claimed that the wind-up of the Knights Templar was bad governance. However, the assets would still be the property of the Holy See -- the only claim that modern law would be likely to support is the claims of any creditors of the Knights (the liquidators should have repaid all debts before removing the assets) and unfair dismissal claims from individual knights.

The assets of the order were the assets of the order -- not the personal belongings of the employees (knights) of the order.

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Flame

Smashed..

The Reg, takes up where the Catholic church left off and leaves their web site nought but a smouldering ruin.

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Coat

@Flocke Kroes

That all depends on which is more likely to come after me next.

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Silver badge

Vorsprung durCH TechnIQ ...... via Swiss Guardians/Switzerland Network Testing

The Knights Templar and the Vatican in a Coalition of the Willing and Enabled, would be AI Potent Force against Usurpers and Usurers of ITs Holy Grail Base Technology.

United would they be Squared in Power rather than Divided and Halved in Control. A USB for UBS and AI Net of Ubiquitous Neutrality?

Of course, it is....... 42 Bring Order to Chaos and Freedom from ITs War Mongers/Guilt Ridden Monsters/Fools on the Hill and Conservative NeoNazism.

Eat your heart out, Mr Brown/Rejoice Mr Brown* ..... the Codes are Secured and Enhanced/NEUKlearer and Enriched.

* Prudence favours the Brave and Lion Hearted.

And just in Time .......as always Promised? :-)

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One can only wonder

was the first word muttered 'Sheisse!' or 'Godverdammt'

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Re: The way It was explained to me

A Jewish school teaching that ..........

"a bunch of racist greedy arse hole frenchmen"

"ballsed up the middle east for everyone"

Stop, you're killing me!

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Aren't

two of the Inns of Court, the Inner Temple and Middle Temple. so called as they were built on land owned by the Templars?

The thought of all those barristers being evicted is strangely appealiong...

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Thumb Up

Python would be proud.

"knigits templar".

Pronounced "nijits" I hope, a beautiful misspelling worthy of His Holy Hand Grenade, if not a full shrubbery!

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Paris Hilton

Give them back everything

Give them back everything that was theirs: which is to say, raw materials they mixed with their toil, rather than stuff they nicked from other people.

Something tells me that's not going to be worth €100bn.

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Flame

of course if the Christian/Catholic faith is true

We are all decendants from Adam and Eve who in turn were created by God. God's 1st born son Jesus, stated that we were all one (where the line between science and religion join).........

So in that case I would like the Catholic church to cough up approximately 2000 years profits to all mankind as we are all part of the same family and I haven't had a single birthday, christmas, easter, saints day gift from them for 27yrs.

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Anonymous Coward

Hallelujah

> was the first word muttered 'Sheisse!' or 'Godverdammt'

considering that the pope is a bavarian he might as well have muttered "crucifix" and "hallelujah", strange as it may seem, those are very popular swear words in bavaria.

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Silver badge
Happy

Templar Resurgentes Equites Synarchii

After all the suspense, The Plan turns out to be a shakedown of the Pope.

Nooo!!!

The Universe needs a better scriptwriter.

But bringing amanfromMars and Abulafia together leads to illumination.

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Black Helicopters

Community service?

Maybe the Pope could be ordered to do some community service instead? Like paying a small fine (a shrubbery) and cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with... a herring!

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Bronze badge
Thumb Up

I have a templar knight in my family tree.

Type your comment here — plain text only, no HTML

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Real History Privately Published Now Publicly Published Here

True Privately Published History from the Masons republished publicly at the link below there is no legitimate Knights Templar lineage that is public, what remains is much hidden and retains the real treasure.

divineknights.org

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IT Angle

IT angle?

The knights templers were basically the first money transfer agents for pilgrims/crusaders - bit like a dark ages Western Union. It all got a bit out of hand when a bunch of Nigerians started sending parchments to Philip IV of France asking for his sort number and account code.

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Joe
Coat

Templars - will you take a check?

Let's assume a very modest initial value of 10 million in Templar treasure.

Now compound that annually at a modest 7% ... for SEVEN HUNDRED YEARS!

This would be a doubling every 10 years, so we have 70 doublings of the ten million or

10 x 2 to the 70th power = 1.18 × 10 to the 21st power.

Thus we have about 1.18 x 10 to the 22nd power million dollars owed to the Templars since we started with 10 million dollars.

$11 800 000 000 000 000 000 000.00 = Eleven septillion, 800 pentillion dollars. Since the annual global economy is only about 150 Trillion..... I hope the Templars will take a personal check.

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Anonymous Coward

@ AC "Intellectual Property"

>> "700 years is only 5.8 generations of copyright under the present Sony Bono system. It's already not that long"

I was going to correct you and say it was the SONNY Bono act, but then I saw you were right all along.

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Go

Primates

Oh yeah, I can see it now. Some poor misguided soul will sue us all in the name of Darwin's apes and before long the monkeys will own everything.

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Stop

Yes yes.

And then Italy is sued by Tunisa for damage to Carthage during the Punic wars, and they're taken to court in turn by the RSPCA over the mistreatment of elephants.

Isn't there a statute of limitation on this stuff? And anyway, didn't the Templars get rich by sacking Jerusalem? I hope Saladins estate are watching this one.

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Anonymous Coward

Time to get real people

Firstly, the Knight's Templar were officially disbanded by the Catholic Church, via a Papal Bull. As a military order that was solely answerable to the Pope it was his prerogative to do this. Once a military order is disbanded and in the case of the Templars completely destroyed that order ceases for all legal purposes to exist. Despite the fact that many members of the Knights Templar did escape to Spain, England and other parts of Europe and the Middle East the order as it was no longer exists therefore anyone claiming to be a Templar or descendant of a Templar does so in name only. It would be like me claiming to be a descendant of Saint Nicholas because my name is Nick and saying oh I'd like billions of dollars of church funds and St Nicholas's day off from work evey year because...welll...I'd just really like it ok...

As fascinating as the history of the Templars is that is all it is, history. As for the significant holdings that the Templars had they now belong to the Catholic Church who can do with them as they please since they are the legal owner. The fact that they were taken by force in some instances is insignificant since at the time that was perfectly acceptable. The majority of the Templars holdings were donated or purchased with plunder from the Crusades which was also perfectly acceptable practice at the time.

It is also worth noting that there will probably never be a time that the Knights Templar needs to be reactivated since the Catholic Church will probably never need the services of an army. The only military presence in the Vatican are the Swiss Guard and are there for the protection of the Pope and other ceremonial duties.

This is just another silly lawsuit by greedy people.

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Silver badge

So?

There are no racist, greedy arsehole people currently buggering up the middle east?

And as for the vatican. We have inside the Holy Grail An Holy Hand Grenade.

Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying,"Bless this Oh Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy" And the people did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree sloths...... Look yer holyship just give us the dosh or we're gonna blow the crap out of you ! Alright?

Signed A Templar

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