back to article Plods say it's OK for them give out your DNA

The National Police Improvement Agency has defended allowing companies access to the national DNA database. A spokesperson for the NPIA told GC News that there are "stringent guidelines" surrounding each request for profiles from the National DNA Database, including scrutiny by a newly formed ethics board. "After approval by …

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genetic predisposition to crime???

When you cut through the woolly talk - is this one of the research programmes they're planning?

I can imagine that if it ever came out that this is what they're planning, there would be riots (which, presumably would result in even more DNA for the scientists to investigate - maybe that's the idea). And rightly so.

No wonder the police don't want their own DNA included in these projects - it might uncover some hard truths about the "type" of people who join the force.

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Joke

"These profiles are completely anonymous and are not identifiable in any way"

So remind us again then, how do DNA profiles identify people!?

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Stop

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

Seriously. What the fucking hell is wrong with country?! This kind of shit is so reminiscent of a fucking corporate dictatorship it's sickening. Fuck the police, Fuck the ZaNu-Labour-PF party. Fuck the lot of them. I am fucking sick of this shit. Jesus H Zombie Raptor Steve-went-extinct-for-our-sins-Christ. How can ANYONE in their right mind think it's ok for this data to be shared with private companies without the consent of the poor fuckers whose DNA it is?! Who the fuck do they think they are?! Fucking hell, I need to stop reading, calm down, and when I'm suitably relaxed I would like to depose every last one of these semi-naziesque (Godwins law already, I know but this is serious shit) bastards by the gun if necessary.

What a bunch of cocks.

Posted anon because they'll probably be after my DNA next.

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Unhappy

The plan is the same for ID cards: profit

I know someone that used to be involved in the ID card scheme.

Apart from the constant stories of changes and political interference costing hundreds on thousands of pounds in lost time and changed requirements, it was pointed out to me that the government intended to make money from the database by providing private companies with some of the data contained in it.

Naturally, this would be a big money spinner.

Governments don't really work for their electorate any more.

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Black Helicopters

How long before...

... the DNA database is downloaded to a Laptop that will be left on a train...

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Unhappy

Who the fuck...

gave THEM the authority to provide this data to anyone else without the 'owner's' specific consent? Could it be that, like the plods, if you asked, most people would be likely to tell them to fuck off?

The National Police Improvement Agency!

There's an oxymoron for you! Appears to be staffed by morons too.

As for the " newly formed ethics board", does that mean that prior to it's formation, no-one even gave the pretence of giving a toss about the 'ethics'?

Sounds like a case of "Oh shit, we've been rumbled. Quick, form an 'ethics board'. That'll keep them at bay whilst we think up some more excuses/try to find a way out of this"

The only way I want anyone to get a sample of my DNA is reproductively!

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Refusal to comply?

If arrested can we legally refuse to supply a DNA sample? Under what grounds can the Police force us to submit to this testing?

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Paris Hilton

I beg your pardon, mr Plod!

How does it help solve crime (find culprits) if "these profiles are completely anonymous and are not identifiable in any way"?!

Paris, because that's that they take us for!

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"stringent gudelines" means nothing

What happens when these stringent guidelines are broken? Past experience means that someone will go on gardening leave and they'll make up new stringent guidelines.

Whoop-de-doo.

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Anonymous Coward

research

This "research" wouldn't be looking for a crime gene would they?

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Flame

Hypocritical bastards.

I am sick and fed up with the fact that "He was a public servant who was lying/stealing/talking shite" is not an acceptable defence in court for beating someone.

At the very least we should be able to pelt them with rotten fruit in the streets - it's only fair.

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A government we can trust

...is I suppose, whatever the opposite of a oxymoron is.

Still, nice to know they are consistent...

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Black Helicopters

Dumbfounded

Unbelievable... Where will it stop?

Actually I don't understand why the government is still trying to gain so much power and abusing it so when they are set to be replaced by the Conservatives, or am I being too naive.

I don't care much though because I'm leaving the country next year for South Africa (home) except they've got a picture of my face and my irises. I hope this doesn't come to haunt me in the future...

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Non identifiable....

So DNA is "completely anonymous and are not identifiable in any way".

Doesn't that rather defeat the point of using it in the first place?

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Anonymous Coward

Mission Creep

So the DVLA routinely sell our vehicle data to private firms for financial gain. The plod are now selling our DNA data to private firms for financial gain. And they expect us to believe that they *won't* sell the data from the ID database to private firms for financial gain?

We need a popular uprising. And fast.

Fuckers, the lot of them.

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Anonymous Coward

Police DNA is on a SEPARATE database

Which is why the police can say 'no don't use our DNA' and because it is on a separate database it is not used.

But if it's truly anonymous, then why would they object? You couldn't tell an officers DNA from a criminals DNA?

And I know it's tempting to talk about innocent people and crims, and somehow the crims have no rights, but do we really lose all our rights? Even for dropping litter?

If I come to you with an application 'I want to take random samples from the database and sell companies the right to check which of their employees are in the database', is it still anonymous data then?

What if I want to take random samples from shop doors so I can tell insurance companies how many people in that area are on the database?

What if I tell you one thing to get hold of the data and use it for a different purpose later? You know, like when you obtained the DNA in the first place then used it for a different purpose later. What then? Once it's out of your hands you don't know and can't control how it is used.

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M
Pirate

Christ on a bike.

This country is going to the dogs...and not to the good dogs at Owlerton Stadium either.

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Anonymous Coward

Stringent Guidelines

The problem with stringent guidelines is they later get redefined as red tape and targetted in cost-cutting measures.

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Black Helicopters

yay for rights.

My browsing habits, personal data and my DNA are not for sale... Get lost Big Brother.

I am off to hunker down in my bunker.

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Anonymous Coward

Cue cut and paste response

This makes me feel like going back to the UK so I can leave again.

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Anonymous Coward

Guilty until proven innocent

This is appalling: the reliance on DNA for convictions means that we are ever closer to the Napoleonic code of "Guilty until proven innocent". The fact that they are then giving access to this database for commercial reasons just increases the chances of errors and or injustices being committed.

The fact that they can do this without your permission also has to rank as one of the biggest violations of privacy of all time: Is it me or is the UK becoming more and more like China in its privacy practices?

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Stop

Contamination...

"many of whose officers have added themselves to the database voluntarily".

ALL Police office SHOUL be on the databse, no exceptions. There are often involved in case, on the scene. Therefore potentionally can leave their DNA on the scene. Therefore, it would rule out hairs etc instantly.

After all, they have nothing to fear if they have nothing to hide....

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Coat

Sound fishy to me already

"After approval by the National DNA Database Strategy Board, they were made available for authorised research purposes demonstrating clear potential operational benefit to the police in terms of detecting and solving crime. These profiles are completely anonymous and are not identifiable in any way,"

So if this info is anonymous and are not identifiable in anyway how the hell are these reserach puropose samples even going to come close to solving crime when they dont know who the sample came from...unless they are going to grow some super criminal catching cop out of the DNA samples.

Mine is the one with OCP stamped on the back,

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Coat

plain text only no html

If you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear.

(Tongue well and truly placed in cheek)

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Who are the researchers?

The government has made it clear that it has no respect for ethics, but researchers are supposed to still have some.

The researchers working for those companies and using that data taken without consent are in flagrant breach of ethical guidelines for research.

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After approval by...

... somebody wanting to get off to their lunch, the noisy person who secretly works for the Russian Mafia as well as a random Quango is given the form required for them to get unrestricted access.

Again.

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JCL

wtf??

what? It gets worse! I tell you, I'm outta here next year.

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So people were asked if they give permission?

From the line: "rejected a request for their DNA samples to be used in a research project", you can quickly assume that all those who's profiles were involved had given permission.

But then there would be no point in this article. So I'm assuming that ONLY THE COPPERS were asked if they give permission. Everyone else is included automatically, innocent or not, children included. Can that be true?

Sounds like it.

Just the same as any coppers caught on speed cameras are asked to explain why, before mostly being let off when they supply the default "It's Police Business" answer.

Us ordinary folks just get busted. No explanations asked for. No explanations accepted. Pay your fine or we'll make it a much bigger one, should you choose to waste our time trying to defend your innocence.

Chalk up another loss for the people. Add it to the list.

@ El Reg: Can we please get a Nazi icon for these stories?

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Black Helicopters

Nothing to hide...

Nothing to fear?

Nothing to see here, move right along folks, nothing to see.

So we know that the DVLA will sell our addresses to scumbag quasi-legal wheel clampers, the Police will sell your DNA profile to 3rd parties, the Gov't regularly loses our data and the security services are less than careful with memory sticks and laptops.

And we are expected to trust them with our biometric data for the National ID register too?

No, nothing to fear at all.

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My DNA is for sale

You know what, I couldn't care less if my DNA is on the database...

Of course, this is providing that I receive equitable recompense for my lending of "myself" to the DNA register. I don't know, perhaps £50 per calendar month.

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Stop

Commercial reasons?

Maybe I'm missing something here, but 'commercial reasons' is a little bit vague for my liking.

Are they saying that the Police regularly sell data collected in line of their work to private companies, so this is simply a continuation of the same practice?

This is a little bit different from providing crime stats to the press.

What are these commercial reasons? I hope they are a bloody sight better than "We fancied making a few mil and as you lot are a bunch of criminal scumbags (even you innocent ones must have done SOMETHING wrong), so you can all f*ck off if you don't like it."

And don't get me started on the moral and privacy implications of all this!

F*CKERS!

Welcome to UK Government Enterprises Ltd.

We don't work for you any more - we own you!

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Unhappy

Stringent guidelines?

Don't the Home Office (and all those other Government depts that seem to be playing a game to see who can give away the most private data) have stringent guidelines?

Doesn't seem to be particularly effective in the fight against f*ckups does it?

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@Eponymous Cowherd

Exactly. Only criminals or other miscreants should worry. Average Job Schmoe who has not committed any crime is in the clear. As for wheel clampers- just don't park illegally. Easy.

It's the same with DRM and FileSharing - only those engaged in illegal activities worry about it.

Less criminals = better world.

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"National Police Improvement Agency"

This would be the police's UK chapter of the "Improvement Agency", aka Ministry of Love, then.

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Anonymous Coward

You misunderstand - they REALLY won't sell the data

If their past performance is anything to go by, your personal data will be available for free. Not for a charge, for free.

They will initiate mass distribution by cutting the data on CD and sending them by post. Easy - plenty of experience there..

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Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.

> is the UK becoming more and more like China in its privacy practices?

... erm... becoming?

http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd[347]=x-347-559597

Fear is the mindkiller. Everyone is so shit-scared of terrorists/paedophiles/teenagers (god I hate MCR and now I've got that song in my head) that they're prepared to allow any kind of half-baked legislation or database through as long as it's for "the greater good" without pausing for a moment to think of the consequences.

Do the government's actions protect us from "the threat" or is the threat inflated to justify the government's actions?

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Research

And during this research if these companies say that they've identified a gene that makes you prone to say shop lifting will all people with this gene be rounded up and put in clink???

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It seems to me that....

...when the government finally forces us all onto a DNA database, they will spin the crime fighting benefits while conveniently forgetting to tell us that they are selling the information.

A bit like the DVLA selling our details to car-clamping companies, they will sell our DNA to the insurance and medical companies....

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Anonymous Coward

@BoldMan

If you refuse to supply DNA it will be taken by force.

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Two faced hypocritical bunch of t**sers

So the police are allowed to say whether they want their DNA data used and the public is not.

This is just further evidence to show that this Labour government really don't give a f****ng stuff about our rights and civil liberties.

We need to kick these b**tards out of power asap.

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Nazi icon seconded

Come on el-reg we really need an icon that fits for this continuous stream of stories of the lying scum in government and the police farce breaking the laws they make up whenever it suits them. You know, those laws that do not apply to them, like not shooting people just because you were incompetent. You can now be arrested 'for the purpose of determining your identity' and added to the DNA database so if you have nothing to hide at the very least you have being arrested for doing something the state does not like to fear. Perhaps this would be when you exercise that right you don't have any more to political demonstration? How long will it be before you can be arrested for voting for the wrong party? Maybe they will just use the DNA to go an beat up your relatives instead, Mugabe is only a few steps further down the road of moral and ethical bankruptcy than our government.

Suggestions for a logo;

A Swastika, a picture of Stalin, an SS logo, a picture of Robert Mugabe, a picture of Tony Blair, a picture of Ian Blair, a guillotine (perhaps one set up in Westminster?)

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Flame

There's only one way this kind of thing will be stopped

And that is if the individuals involved are held personally responsible, and I don't mean by some lame-arse committee.

A few of them suddenly found strung up by their testicles/tits from the nearest lamp-post should send the message across nice and clearly.

They are really trying hard to turn us all into terrorists/freedom fighters aren't they.

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Why is police DNA not up for sale?

I would like to know precisely why policemen chose not to allow their DNA to be sold. If their reason is in any way bogus at all, then their DNA should be up for sale just like everyone else's. If they have some good reasons which could also apply to a significant proportion of non-police DNA, then none of it should be up for sale.

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Stop

Shurely the Police have nothing to hide...

"It also said that the police, many of whose officers have added themselves to the database voluntarily, rejected a request for their DNA samples to be used in a research project."

... so what do they have to fear...?

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Alert

I'm glad I don't live there.

I used to think it'd be interesting, even fun to live in the UK.

If someone were making money by selling my DNA, I'd want my share -- about 99% of it.

But I'm sure it's only a matter of time before we find out that they're doing it here too.

qcc.

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Alien

There's one piece of research I'd like to see.

Internal statistics run on the entries would determine the number of unrelated

matches due to particial DNA fragments and cross contamination*. This would give the actual figure of reliability rather than the speculative billion to one bullshit so loved by Lawyers and Jurors alike.

*no wonder the plods don't want their DNA included in the count.

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It could be worse, it could be Scotland

You thought this was bad? The oh so wonderful and ethical SNP are handing the raw census data for all of Scotland to a firm that does torture work for the CIA.

http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.2410437.0.scottish_government_hires_firm_accused_of_torture_in_iraq.php

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Refuse to give it?

Nope, no such luck. They can use "reasonable force" to obtain one:

http://www.andrewgray.uklinux.net/legalsupport/procedures14.html

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Revenue stream

I can only presume there is a charge for access to these profiles. So all the denials regarding the use of DNA profiles for anything other than the detection of perpetrators of crime is like most of what our wonderful caring, sharing government spout... bullshit. Two years is too long to wait for a change of government in this country, too much damage to our rights, freedoms and civil liberties can be wrought during this time. We need a general election now. Although I do despair that any future government will just build upon these abuses.

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Flame

Various comments on the data being non identifiable...

Oh please people...

They never said the DNA in the db is not linked to a real person with a name etc. Whet they mean is, the data given to 3rd parties have this info stripped.

I know intelligence of the plod is average at best but even they are not that stupid to delete the names from the DNA db.

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