Wasn't vista (with IE7 atop) supposed to be the most secure blah blah blah.
Microsoft has detailed a raft of security improvements due to appear in Internet Explorer 8. The second beta of Redmond's web browser will be packed full of features designed to thwart phishing and drive-by download attacks, Redmond explained on Wednesday. Users need to be running either Vista or Windows XP SP2 to take …
Wasn't vista (with IE7 atop) supposed to be the most secure blah blah blah.
Its faster and more stable than the IE7 crap, so unless IE8 lose a lot of weight, it aia't coming anywhere near our machines.
Over the years since IE7, I on many occasions, had to remove IE7 to solve many of the problems, not to mention the gain on speed after the bloatware are gone.
Whats wrong with IE6 ? not much, may lose a bit of features here and there, but same story as Vista, if you needed a machine to get your work done without any fancy crap, stick to something that works, XP and IE6 serves me well, and I use it daily.
"It will be better next time, honestly."
"Vista, while more secure, has performance and reliability problems"
What "Vista" are you using? The one that's got various sources stating how it's more reliable than XP, or the one made from anti-microsoft hype...?
I'll give you the performance one - on the basis your probably using a 6 year old PC.
Regarding IE8 - a step in the right direction, but I'm sceptical till it's out in the full public domain.
I'd much rather have a browser that is inherently secure than one with "security features" bolted on as afterthoughts.
... for any sucker who believes this crap.
If they take the "Vista" approach to IE8, they'll promise anything to make it seem they're being responsible and then deliver little or nothing in a warmed-over dog.
I love Microsoft. I do love a good clown act and this is just one more act in their cadre of idiots, buffoons, and monkey boy acts.
this is why...
Their all sulking in MS Heaad quarters .. cos ppl given up with the IE crap lol
boohooo were whipping with you microsoft hehehhehehe NOT
So.... not Safari, then?
So far everything they've produced is "The Best One Ever" but leave off the "We've Managed So Far."
Probably compromised before the final is released. Just wait.
Why would they care, really? They lose no money from others using Firefox and make no money when people use IE. Why would they care? Firefox3 is disgusting too, BTW. Are they tracking how many people are reverting FF2? Nah.
Typical! You wait for years for a replacement for IE6, and then two come along (almost) at once...
It might be the best IE ever, but that's not saying very much, is it?
"Stick with IE6 "
You obviously don't design web sites. In fact you obviously don't care about the security of your network, since IE6 has a number of flaws that will not be fixed. Ever.
Running IE6 is a risk to the user, and a pain in the ass for web designers/developer (no native XMLHTTPRequest object either). If you're too worried about IE7 being bloated (it does take longer to load, I know) then at least install Firefox. Please!
I just saw "Microsoft", "Security" and "Web Standards" in the same paragraph.
(pauses for breath)
Where is this Brookland that you have a bridge by? I know of no such place! You surely must not be referring to the former home of the Dodgers.
Oh yeah FF2. Way to go... why change? Works well, safe and has a nice fresh aftertaste.
Oh please, for the love of us web designers install Firefox/Opera. IE7 is slow? Fine, don't use it!
I so agree. IE6 was the bane of my life.
I'm glad Microsnot are highlighting security features and web standards compliance in the new browser rather than more unwanted bloatware features. Maybe they've finally got the message. Still it does strike me that they are setting their sites low, maybe only trying to stem the flow of IE users going to FF rather than trying to win back those who have already stopped using it.
I think the fact that - is it seven years now? - people STILL use and even more surprisingly, DEFEND IE6 is proof that God does not exist.
As a web designer it is the bane of my existence. We are stuck using web design techniques, ugly hacks and kludges that keep us in the metaphorical computing dark ages because so many idiots think IE6 is still a good idea.
Its CSS rendering is the most abstract, random and botched disgrace in the world. It doubles margins for no good reason, it removes padding from widths when it shouldn't, it doesn't support PNG's (no nice transparency), it doesn't even support things as ridiculously useful as minimum-height or minimum-width. Your basically restricted to a small dodgy subset of CSS in which you have to be constantly aware of the limitations of IE6 in everything you do.
You may say 'but most sites look fine in IE6', and this is generally because the designer took 4x as long to make something 1/4 of the potential quality simply because your too stupid* and pig headed to use something decent.
Seriously, the web would be an order of magnitude better if we didn't have to support that crappy piece of shit browser and the idiots who cling on to it. Next time I make a personal site it's getting blocked.
* If it's your IT department that mandated it then they are idiots too**.
** Firefox with IETab in the default install configured to work on the intranet if you really must cling to your legacy crap that you refuse to rewrite and make everyone else suffer for.
Phew. Cathartic. :)
I think the Brookland Bridge must be near the Eye Fell tower.
Uh, MS don't get to put "IE only" sites out there if people use FireFox rather than IE.
Use of Silverlight is limited unless you use the "free" (though, oddly, it's the reason why Windows OS's get more expensive each time, so can't be free if it's jacking up the price of the OS...). ActiveX sites can't be used if people aren't generally using IE.
And, since IE is only on windows (nice that when it comes to Netscape competing with IE, you can just download the browser, but when it comes to IE for the Mac, they can't compete with a browser built into the OS), not having to have IE means not having to have MS Windows.
And where are they profitable?
... Just a few weeks after Firefox 3 is released.
<Unsubstantiated conspiracy theory>
Anyone for reverse engineering of Firefox?
</Unsubstantiated conspiracy theory>
NOT. IE8 will be compromised before it's released, the script kiddies out there will have the tools to continue what their doing today and Microturds will be caught with their collective fingers up their arses wondering what the hell went wrong.
RE: Tom "Could you point the way to Brookland? "
Aaahhhh sheet!!! I failed to read what I typed, and as usual my mouth outran my brain.
My bridge for sale is actually in Brooklyn, NY
Let's hope that IE8 on Vista will allow you to add to folders in favourites without having to turn off the "Protected Mode".
Never a good sign that you end up needing to turn off security features just to use it properly.
They wouldn't have to "reverse engineer" Firefox, just copy chunks of source code(heh) - I'm sure they checked out the likes of NoScript when designing the XSS protection for example
I hear the same complaints.....IE6 is the bane of my life, IE7 is better.....Well i have news for you.....We are not your slaves, you should be developing for us. As a software producer, all i got were programmers saying something wasnt possible, only to miraculously do it when threatened with removal from the project (these people now work for microsoft...hahahaha!). Now all you web developers who think IE6 is ass-backward, shame on you. We cant all afford shiney new quadcores with 40 terabytes of SSD and such. Hows about a bit of support for your poorer brothers and sisters instead of glory seeking all the time. You all obey the software equivalent of boyles law and just expand into the available processing power of the latest machines. Try programming for the lowest common denominator, not the highest, and who knows? you might shift more units.
Phew.. that feels better.....
Now, can anyone tell me how i can get my Ferrari up another 50bhp? 201mph aint enough.
I would like to add to Sleeping Dragon's comments with ...
"Microsoft" and "Trustworthy" in the same article.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Flame me, too, if you wish!
...welcome our new web browsing overlords.
I've been using IE7 since it came out on XP SP2 (now SP3). The minimalist toolbar took a bit of getting used to but now it's my favourite browsing experience.
Security ? I use no AV/Anti-Spyware products and rely on the Windows Firewall. Every few months I download a virus scanner and check the system. Nothing to report. The trick is to run as a Limited User Account when not requiring admin privileges:
"Internet Explorer 7 introduced a phishing filter, and IE8 Beta 2 goes beyond this with features designed to warn surfers about sites that harbour malware, as well as those designed to trick users into handing over ebanking login credentials and such to crooks. Users who stray onto sites infected with Trojans will be confronted by a full-screen warning. The combined anti-phishing and malware defence will be branded as Microsoft SmartScreen filter."
So... we need Phorm for what, exactly? Oh yes, "more relevant advertising". Goody.
A browser can only do so much for you. Users have to also be careful not to take unnecessary risks. No browser can protect a user from his/her own stupidity.
I've never used IE7. It occasionally comes up when rude, idiotic software assumes it's the default browser without checking. Most of the time IE7 crashes my computer. I wouldn't use IE for any reason I can think of. Too many problems, too many broken promises and really crappy products.
But even my beloved Firefox isn't going to save me if I decide to do something stupid. Yes, it can block many exploits, and give me a few moments to think about things before letting me click on something dangerous. Ultimately, however, it's my responsibility to be careful not to send that nice general in Nigeria my banking information so he can deposit millions into my account.
So many misinformed idiots on here :/
I cannot WAIT till IE6 dies, it causes a hell of a lot of problems for web designers. IE7 generally behaves, IE8 promises to bring IE in line with the other major browsers finally (well, except for XHTML support, which it will still not have :()
People still using FF2 - err, why? FF3 is far better, far faster, more support for newer standards, and the vast majority of addons have been updated to work with it now.
Here's hoping MS prove all of you wrong.
Glad someone said it. I was about to launch into a similar tirade about CSS and Web standards but someone beat me to it.
IE6. Is. Disgusting.
"The trick is to run as a Limited User Account when not requiring admin privileges:"
Soooooooooo true i run my notebook as a limited user when i'm on the internet and i can't remember having a single virus/adware issue for over 5 years and i check occasionally with more than one product. The same goes for quite a few friends PC's that i set up the same way it's so easy to create a stable XP PC this way.
You also just to stop rubbish old software running riot and tell the users not install 100s of old versions of carp software they borrowed off their mate and you're in bussiness.
Firefox's best feature is also it's weakness, the ability to customize the browser through the use of add-on's and plug-in's. FF3 breaks many of them. I've got 20 add-on's and I'm somewhat conservative.
while I join Sleeping Dragon and Ascylto
oh, god.. need to breathe... phew... that one's going to keep me laugh all week.
I've got a work pc with 1.7Ghz P4, 256mb RAM and XP SP2 and have no problems running IE7 at all. The pc has all the usual stuff on like antivirus, MS office, a kack load of printer utilities and drivers and a bunch of Nokia Dev tools so it's not exactly a basic install either.
I have no problem having to use windows but from my point of view m$ might as well give up on IE. I gave up on IE long ago back at Version 5
I wish IE6 would die! I'm not a fan of IE7 either, but at least it makes an attempt at standards compatibility. I'm fed up with using underscores (_ie6rating:0%) every time I write a stylesheet!
FF3 is the way to go - fast, secure(subjective) and extensible.
I have to say although the idea of XSSvulnerabilities being reduced is a good idea, I have very little faith in Microsoft managing to do it without making my ilfe as a developer harder - I've spent years (literally) trying to get IE to do what it's supposed to do (whereas 90% of other browsers just do what they're told to...) and IE6 is known world-wide as being one of the worst browsers around for standards compliance, etc... and has spawned millions of webpages on how to work around all the problems it has (google it...)
And having wasted all this time, I don't look forward to the prospect of MS randomly killing scripts because they think there MIGHT be an XSS vulnerability. If the detection works properly, bravo! but I seriously doubt it and can only see it making yet more work trying to rewrite everything so that it meets with MS's new arbitrary standards.
You wouldn't believe how much I loathe IE (IE6 in particular) - I would be interested to know how many developer-hours have been wasted by that bloated piece of s##t. I just don't want 8 to go the same way...
If they solved the Spam problem, how would people phish?
Microsoft has the clout to set up a new mail protocol with proper authentication and put spammers out of business overnight. They should set a deadline (eg. Jan 1st, 2009), put the infrastructure in place, push out the updates to Outlook, then throw the switch. So long as they don't try any underhanded tricks there's no reason why other people wouldn't follow suit.
So far they've only used their clout for monopoly enforcement. Isn't it about time they used it for something good?
Please, please, please... if ANYONE sees that claim contained in a Microsoft advertisement anywhere in the UK, post it here, or mail the details to El Reg, so that complaints can be made to the Advertising Standards Authority. Better still, make the complaint yourself as well!
It breaches their codes of practice under the categories: substantiation, truthfulness and comparisons, and if a complaint is made to the ASA, Microsoft will have to factually substantiate their claim that it is "trustworthy", or agree (or be forced) to remove it - which, given the discussions about the "Microsoft security" oxymoron, will make interesting and entertaining reading! Cough... Active X controls... cough, cough!
So keep your eye peeled, folks! :-)
> Microsoft has the clout to set up a new mail protocol with proper authentication and put spammers out of business overnight. They should set a deadline (eg. Jan 1st, 2009), put the infrastructure in place, push out the updates to Outlook, then throw the switch.
But given that Microsoft has now been fined well over £1 billion by the European Commission for a long and sorry history of illegal anti-competitive practices, we all know what would really happen, don't we? And even if Microsoft could be forced to implement *anything* truly openly, it's a matter of record (by examination of what little code that they've actually been forced to reveal) that the technical standard of their software ranges from extremely poor to criminally shoddy... so we wouldn't want to produce an Open Source version anyway!
No... whilst spam e-mail is a difficult issue to resolve, for all practical purposes Microsoft should have no hand in it whatsoever, based on their technical and legislation-compliance track records.
"I hear the same complaints.....IE6 is the bane of my life, IE7 is better.....Well i have news for you.....We are not your slaves, you should be developing for us."
Are you saying that when Microsoft deliberately ignored web standards, they were developing for you ?
"Now all you web developers who think IE6 is ass-backward, shame on you."
No, shame on you for being such an ignorant asshat. IE6 was defective by design and ass-backward on purpose.
"We cant all afford shiney new quadcores with 40 terabytes of SSD and such."
Who said you needed them ?
"Hows about a bit of support for your poorer brothers and sisters instead of glory seeking all the time."
So the proprietary software biz ain't doing to well for you then ?
"You all obey the software equivalent of boyles law and just expand into the available processing power of the latest machines. Try programming for the lowest common denominator, not the highest, and who knows? you might shift more units."
Are you talking to web developers or Microsoft ?
Well, because MS tied the guts of IE DEEEP into the internals of the operating system (just so that they could kill netscape and get away with it), you have to upgrade your OS to move off IE6.
And software doesn't rot.
Closed source software petrifies, however: you can't recompile or tweak to get the program working on a newer version of the same OS like you could if it was OSS.
So some people are stuck with mission critical products for an OS that will not (and cannot) take IE7 or IE8.
PS anyone remember when IE7 was still yet to come? It was supposed to be standards compliant. Look how real that turned out to be...
20 is not conservative.
I have two:
Both to stop the web slowing down because doubleclick is busy.
Waay back we "anti-M$" folks were calling on Microsoft to open up hidden API's in their Windows 9x and NT OS's.
"There are NO hidden API's!" the NBMers (Nobody But Microsoft) cried.
Again and again, accusation made, denied STRENUOUSLY.
Then as part of a monopoly bust against MS, they gave out thousands of pages of documentation about OS APIs that had been up until that time hidden by Microsoft.
Oddly enough, NBMers STILL insist that MS have no hidden APIs.
Then for the EU antitrust, they opened up 14,000 pages.
Oddly enough, nothing from the NBMers saying "hey, where'd this come from".
Yet they still maintain that MS have no hidden APIs (and some even acknowledge that they have released info, but don't mention that this used to be hidden APIs and miss out that we still don't know if there are any more).
THAT'S how open and willing to interoperate MS is.