I love this lot!

... All computers are pre-shipped with government sanctioned key-loggers just to get around "criminals/drug-dealers/tourists/pedo-files"...

Remember, everyone is guilty until proven themselves innocent.

Remember, if you have nothing to fear, you have nothing to hide.

Remember, you can always trust the government with all your data.

"... All computers are pre-shipped with government sanctioned key-loggers just to get around "criminals/drug-dealers/tourists/pedo-files"..." .... By Anonymous Coward

Posted Monday 23rd June 2008 11:16 GMT

Methinks that is rather ".... just to get around "criminals/drug-dealers/tourists/pedo-files"

How did this law even get passed? It's a blatant human-rights violation! I would've expected better from (mainland) Europe...

and I feel fine!

If they actually manage to make this work, then every other government on earth will leap on the bandwagon too. Governments sure do love snooping on their citizens and the internet sure is a thorn in their collective sides right now.

As for appealling to ISP's to ban Sweden, I have to say "LOL". ISP's absolutely hate their customers using bittorrent so if a web site that is a notorious figurehead for same exhorts them to do something that could be seen as promoting or enabling the cause of file sharing (regardless of whether it has perfectly legal applications or not) they will more likely go out of their way to do the exact opposite.

But I love their chutzpah.

GO TPB!

Pffft! As long as I can still use my own screwdriver and welder... ;-)

Thats what it says on my DVDs. But this lot are actually trying to help consumers, while the evil corporations are trying to spy on us and monitor us. It's like everything is backwards man. I'll never trust anything I'm ever told on a DVD again.

It does of course cause issues with everybody using name-based virtual hosting (myself included), but that can be solved using the server_name extension for TLS.

Viva la revolution.

"But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."

The End

Raising awareness and use of personal encryption techniques, over due but TPB are the people to do it.

Don't we have this in the UK already? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIPA

> I love this lot!

You wouldn't if you'd spent the last few years writing some software and then you saw it being downloaded for free on a Bit Torrent site.

Unless you use a program like Peer Guardian, this is snake oil.

Swedish ISPs and MAFIAA goons get IP addresses from getting a hold of the torrent file, downloading the target, and seeding. They then harvest the peers who connect for IP addresses. SSL will only protect against knowing which .torrent file was downloaded, not the swarm which the torrent connects to.

Secure VPN tunnelling or onion routing (a la Tor) go some way to helping protect against this, but only marginally. Plus, bandwidth overhead becomes a major issue.

This may win the battle, as they say, but it won't win the war. To do that, we need to get the law overturned. That means we need more than some minority Swedish political party to stand against it in Europe.

Someone breaks into my house and nicks my TV. Now I have no television and I can't watch Big Brother.

Someone infringes my copyright and copies a computer program I've written. I still have my computer program, but I've lost a potential sale.

Nope, I don't see the similarities.

[quote]the piratebay is about distributing stolen intellectual property.

ever been burgled? would you feel good knowing your ex-property was on offer in the local pub?

the law protects human dignity.[/quote]

If Pirate Bay is akin to being burgled, then this law is akin to allowing government goons to rifle through your bins, read your mail and listen to your phone calls.

How does that constitute human dignity?

Honey...Pots of IT.

By amanfromMars

Posted Monday 23rd June 2008 11:41 GMT

Oops...... spot the deliberate error .... "All computers are pre-shipped with government sanctioned key-loggers just to get around "criminals/drug-dealers/tourists/pedo-files" which is probably rather more accurately reported/spun/transcribed ...All computers are pre-shipped with government sanctioned key-loggers just to get into and around criminals/drug-dealers/tourists/pedo-files.

How would I feel if something I spent the last ten years of my life working on, suddenly available on a P2P network? Well, provided that I didn't put it there myself, and it wasn't loaded with backdoors, or some other "bad things". I would probably feel about the same as the guy who goes to the patent office only to find out that his next door neighbor patented the exact same thing 3 days earlier. And that would be, screwed, shit out of luck, and cleaning my firearms for imminent use. That is why you keep these kind of things secret, off the net, and properly protected.

Sure, your users may complain that they can't make a proper "backup copy", of your software because you have crippled it in some way. But thats what you have to do. And yes, people will steal your idea, make clones, look alikes, work alikes and every possible legal and in some cases illegal variation of your work. Why would they do this? Because your work is good, took a long time and has value to them or others and they want a slice of your pie. This is basic human nature and no amount of legislation will be able to stop it. You should, as some more enlightened people do, compensate for this in your projected revenue stream.

Imagine a world in which this didn't happen. Where reverse engineering didn't exist and cheap knock-offs were not available. imagine a world where you have to pay royalties for anything based on a wheel, or pulley, or fulcrum, to the original inventor or descendants. How about paying for a right to use license for every PN junction in your new digital toy, or every transistor in you latest bit of kit. Would that be a world you could live in?

Instead we have accepted a world in which you can be sued if your "round thing that helps things move", provides a similar function to another "round thing that helps things move" or for figuring out that you can copy the "round thing that makes things move", and give it to all your friends, because they like things that move too.

Give up, get off your high horse, either put your stuff out there, get what you can for the few seconds that you can, and contribute to the forward motion of mankind, or stay in your dark little closet, muttering to yourself "ooo, look at me, I made a wheel, I will call it precious"..

Didn't the NSA pretty much develop AES? They don't strike me as one's to shoot themselves in the foot and make their lives genuinely more difficult.

I'd trust AES against almost all casual nosy parkers but to trust it against governments in cahoots with the NSA and Echelon? Well I suppose they count on the fact that most would and do...

Lets face it software patents came about because businesses were/are too lazy to make money creatively. The words Cash and Cow spring to mind.

Software houses do an excellent job of making amazing software and the programmers do require recognition and recompense, but ultimately the money made to pay for them should come from a more creative business practice.

If all software were free, then everyone would be more productive and spend their money on the products and services that have been more creatively thought out, both by the use of this free software and by more directly related services, such as support. One only has to look at Sun, or HP to see that if you offer software for free you can sell Hardware for it to run on.

If someone is compared to nazi's then we can invoke Godwin's law.

How about when someone tries the "Oh Noes, think of teh Childrens"?

pctechxp wrote - "While I don't agree with snooping I am concerned that the sick element of society (such as paedophiles) will exploit this, do the Pirate Bay really want to be associated with this?"

I hereby propose Neil's theorem, to wit:

"As a forum thread discusses encryption of internet traffic, the probability of invoking the paranoid fear of a Pedo with a computer approaches one."

Paris, cos she's old enough to be safe...

@the douchebag who compared torrent use to burglary:

#1 IP property != physical goods with real value. 1 downloaded movie != 1 stolen dvd.

#2 Even burglars are entitled to a fair trial where you are proven guilty. These new laws do away with such pesky little things such as privacy and human rights.....

If it wasn't for Prometheus, where would we all be???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus

And suppose the servers the Swedes will be using to snoop will be hardened against DDoS using "bulletproofing" methods?

Hahaha....oh the irony, Mr Anonymous...Ahahaha....Are you actually as stupid as you appear to be?

Try not posting anonymously, you pathetic, confused COWARD.

Let me guess, are you an `artist` or some kind of leech who works for a record label or publishing house? Or possibly someone in law enforcement?.

Really, even being as hard of thinking as you appear to be, surely posting anonymously only moments after you use the word `Coward` in your title would ring alarm bells in even your tiny little mind, no?

I'm not going to rebuff your comments, as several others have already done this quite eloquently enough. Bottom line, it's not permanently depriving someone of a posession. It's not theft. It's copying. They are NOT the same thing, and if you can't work that out, maybe you should stick to just watching the shit they put on the telly which is designed to keep people of your ilk amused.

Why is it that every time a post, article, blog, or other dribble of varying forms, hits the internet, in a location that allows the general (read: uneducated) public to repsond, and is in any way, shape, or form, related to filesharing of any sort, the initial details get blurred, and obscured by a deluge of piracy/anti-piracy advocates starting the same too-many-years-old flame war?

The real concern here is not whether filesharing is "OK" or "Not OK", Legal or Illegal.. The issues are the laws in Sweden allowing the government there to monitor anything they like that you do online, and the responses to this law. Sure, it is TPB that is the frontrunner here, and yes, they may run a questionable service.. But the fundamental concerns of blanket snooping laws and the bigger concern that those laws allow anythign and everythign they "see" to be shared globally... THAT is what should be discussed.. I for one, and not all that thrilled to know that a country can blatantly disregard any rights of privacy I may have online...

But, what can we expect from a country who's most famous export is "Bork Bork Bork"

Eest deer bork dee bork.. Ees-a tiem fer mer tooo go..

Eerst der coat-en-hat... und der chickey-poo in der pocket...

I don't know if you all realise the preternatural nature of the forces behind this parlimentary ruling. Sweden is a consensus society, traditionaly, rules and regulations are debated endlessly by untold commitees until consensus is reached. Here we have a law that breaks the Swedish constitution and the EU human right laws, that is proposed, rejected, amended and passed in the space of 2 days, in the face of massive public critisism. Remember this, in years to come you will be able tell your grandchildren you where alive when the first cracks in the dike appeared.

"If encryption is used frivolously for applications such as this, more concerted efforts will be made by governments to break it and you can bet there will be some bent official only too willing to allow access to the computing facilities and or methods for cracking it in exchange for the right price, therefore all of us will then be at risk."

Two points - 1 the way this country is going if they really wanted to look at your bank account they would get the local council to have a look, and 2 - You seriously think that they will only have a go at looking at trafic cos your pilfering a few films? Phorm?

It seems to be related to Moore Law.

The length of a discussion before Nazi's are mentioned is halving every two years.

Once we reach critical mass then we will be in a Nazi police state.

Nazi

Nazi Nazi

Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi

Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi

Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi

Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi

Hammertime.

This is directed at the man who asked if anyone here has ever been burgled:

There is a distinction in law between copyright infringement and theft. Why is this, you ask?

Because there is a difference; this means that your comparison is ridiculous. Also, insert suggestion that not being able to separate between the two aforementioned concepts may be indicative of inferior intellect.

Also, nazis.

Copyright Acts have been introduced worldwide because the powers that be recognise that a breach of these acts is indeed a form of theft.

So the comparison with burglary may not have been the best choice of analogy but it certainly isn't ridiculous as some of you have suggested.