The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has told eBay to stop plans to force Aussie buyers to use PayPal. The move, which would do wonders for eBay's margins, was deeply unpopular with some eBay regulars but was expected go worldwide if successful. The move to PayPal-only transactions was due to come into force next …
Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish
A good decision for sure, but one that becomes more and more meaningless every day as eBay continues to circle the drain.
I almost wish they'd allow it though because I bet eBay's AU business would drop by 30% over the next year.
What's the problem?
People will stop using it, 'cos sellers can't sell to non-existent buyers, eBay will take about 2 years to realise their profits are sliding and might just twig that it a stupid decision!
Whoa....sorry I fell asleep there! Joe Sixpack will be forced to use PayPal, even though it's got more "holes" than a 4th division football pitch, eBay will continue to be everyone's favourite cosmopolitan online market, rather than the tat-market it really is.
Paypals a joke, Ebays a monopoly already...
They should be forced to allow Google Checkout + others to be integrated also...
Being stealthed in everywhere
eBay have forced some sellers to only offer PayPal some some items (electrical goods such as PSP's) on the grounds of "fraud", but I can't see how this helps, I suspect there's been more compromised paypal accounts than fraudulent checks (that clear anyway).
If eBay end up wth 30% less business in Aus but make money on every sale and purchase for the remaining 70% I suspect they still will be quids (dollars) in.
Should have gone further
Good news, but I wish they had gone further and told eBay to stop forcing people to add PayPal as an option.
I don't want to sell through PayPal. Their T&Cs are draconian and unfair. And the service is very expensive.
The last couple of items I have sold on eBay (UK), I have had to add PayPal as an option, but I made sure I added a comment that any prospective buyer should ignore it because I would not accept PayPal.
The rest of the governments of the world - Take note!
nothing to add to the title.
so they are really not allowed to rip dealers off twice within the same deal? The pain, the pain...
73% of statistics are made up on the spot.
Alternatives to PayPal?
I don't want to be giving my business to a company that's abusing its position like this; it's time to give the (UK) competition another look:
NoChex has a choice of UK-only, which is free, or International, which has a £50 setup charge.
WorldPay has a £75 setup fee plus £15/month.
Neither of these look very tempting for a very-low-volume operation like mine. Any suggestions anyone?
What would be really ideal would be to get cash sent directly to my bank account - instantly - and to get an automatic notification from my bank when it arrived. But that would require UK banks to move into the 20th century....
Somebody needs to tell ebay
Any attempts to list payment options other than paypus for auctions finishing after the 17th are still not being accepted.
I believe that ebay knew from the outset that they would never be granted immunity from prosecution by the ACCC but in the interim they have conditioned hold out sellers and buyers to convert with threats and warnings at every log in. So in a sense they have won.
Still a monopoly
There are still monopolistic practices going on here since sellers still have to take Paypal, and they are the ones who are charged the fees. eBay rules prohibit passing on those charges to the customer in further anti-competitive behaviour.
And next is the UK
If no one has noticed, eBay UK is insisting that sellers accept Paypal. Thin end of the wedge me thinks. If people who know how to, please contact the MMC or whoever and get them to stamp out this uncompetitive practice before it sneeks in unannounced.
cash on collection
I've just sold an item on ebay - had ebay not offered this I would have sold my item elsewhere. No question.
@Should have gone further
If you read the fine print you will find that "I made sure I added a comment that any prospective buyer should ignore it because I would not accept PayPal" is in breach of eBay's T's-n-C's and your account can be suspended/revoked.
I have an eBay shop and would LOVE to put that in a banner on EVERY listing but I would not be there for long before the goons found out and kicked me off.
Free market - NOT on eBay! Their way or no way.
"The last couple of items I have sold on eBay (UK), I have had to add PayPal as an option, but I made sure I added a comment that any prospective buyer should ignore it because I would not accept PayPal."
... and of course ebay have now just changed the rules again, so now you have to accept all payment methods that are shown on your listing... the c**ts.
I refuse to include paypal in any of my auctions unless the buyer pays the fees. Other than that, it's cash on collection and screw the final sellers fee's as well ... 2 bites of the same cherry from selling MY goods? I think not fleabay!
Ebay terminates my account? Simple, I go open up a new one :)
Paris because I'd buy her for a dollar AND pay the fee's!
@Paul & @Dan White
..."is in breach of eBay's T's-n-C's and your account can be suspended/revoked."
While you are absolutely correct, I don't actually give a shit.
"... and of course ebay have now just changed the rules again, so now you have to accept all payment methods that are shown on your listing..."
eBay HAVE changed the rules. It doesn't mean you have to take notice of them. Jo Punter placing a bid knows the score; if they can't read my "no PayPal" comment then I'm afraid that's their look-out. As for eBay getting upset, please refer to the "not giving a shit" comment above.
well done oz folk, keep pushing this and maybe the rest of the competition 'regulators' will take notice.
it is blatantly unfair, when one company gets 2 commision payments from you, and they abuse their dominance. is ebay going to implode one day?
lets keep pushing this one folks..
Why the negative attitude?
There is no viable alternative, especially for low volume vendors. I personally don't buy anything unless the vendor offers payment through PayPal. Who is going to reimburse me if I pay with other means and the vendor is a crook? So far PayPal has given me a full refund for 3 out of 3 eBay transactions that were fraudulent and I will stick with them both as a buyer and as a vendor.
"it is blatantly unfair, when one company gets 2 commision payments from you"
Three actually - a fee to list, a final value when you sell something and then teh Paypal commission on top.
Bet the UK Gov won't have the balls to do what the Oz guys have though.
I was ripped off badly on a purchase and eBay or Paypal would do nothing about it, instead issuing me a warning while allowing the scammer to continue his scams! Tried everything, getting meaningless automated replies everytime. Purchase protection my ass! Closed my accounts with both, using other auction sites since with no noticable effect. I will be the happiest person on earth when both eBay and PayPal crash and burn.
'eBay and other pirates'...?
Is it just me, or am I really the only one here who read the beginning of the eighth paragraph:
"eBay and other parties..."
...and parsed it to read:
"eBay and other _pirates_ ..."
It just to rip more money out of people nothing to do with combating fraud. Paypal rates are scandalous. Hopefully the EU will get there noses into it
"However, the ACCC believes that consumers are in the best position to decide which payment method is most suitable for them"
Consumers don't know squat. While the ACCC finally got its act together and actually did its job for once (unlike the Toll / Pacific National fiasco), saying that consumers know what's best in this case is rubbish.
Yet another example of how the ACCC is run by a mob of mentally retarded chimpanzees.
Re: Why the negative attitude?
Why the negative attitude? Because of everything wrong with what they were doing!
"There is no viable alternative, especially for low volume vendors."
So you've never heard of a bank?
"I personally don't buy anything unless the vendor offers payment through PayPal. Who is going to reimburse me if I pay with other means and the vendor is a crook?"
And who reimburses the seller if the buyer is a crook? PayPal will take money back from a seller just because the buyer says they didn't get the item. It's on the seller to prove the buyer received it!
Along with this is the fact that eBay's actions are dodgy, if not illegal.
Another American Monopoly.
They sure like them when they are theirs. But soon kick up a fuss if they originate from another country.
I imagine if we boycotted American companies they would start a war with us - claiming we are a terrorist state. Especially if we dared to peg our North Sea Oil to the Euro instead of the the Dollar.
Staying anonymous here
I'm very much glad that this has been blocked (albeit only temporarily). Somebody needs to give eBay a kick in the behind to wake them up to the fact that this sort of thing just won't do.
-- an El Reg reader who prefers not to have his name published this time
But few people use PayPayl in Australia
The weird part of this is that very few people use PayPal in Australia, preferrring to deposit money directly to other peoples accounts.
I can't make sense of why PayPal is used by most people.
The answer (for flea-bay at least)
Would be to just rebadge some of the paypal stuff as "e-bay payments" or something (e.g. officially take it inhouse), and then say that all sales must be carried out using ebay-dollars/ebay-pounds/etc and that these are available at a 1-1 exchange rate through "e-bay payments".
To the users, the only difference is that it shows e$ on the page rather that $.
I'm not suggesting that this would be good for everyone else, just that it would get around the complaints (legally) - since there can't be any "monopoly" issues if you're just doing your service.
@The answer (for flea-bay at least)
Yes, fee-bay could maybe "synergise" with Linden Labs and use Linden dollars on fee-bay.
That will give the reg a chance to refer to feebay as "SAD-BAY".
ebay UK's new Accepted Payments Policy
UK ebayers will have noticed this change in policy which follows on from ebay's requirement that sellers offer Paypal. I have had 4 items de-listed within a day because I indicated I preferred other methods. The first 3 email responses to my complaint about this suggested I had tried to avoid ebay fees. The last said I had infringed their Accepted Payments policy which now says you mustn't discourage buyers from using any offered payment option. The first three emails said if I didn't like the charges associated with an option I shouldn't offer it, rich since offering Paypal is now mandatory on the UK ebay site!
In the description I had said 'Payment by cash-on-collection preferred as the item has to be collected so there is no possibility of it not being received. I am also happy to receive a bank or building society cheque. I will accept Paypal because I have to under duress, but resent its high charges and the fact that it will hold my money for 21 days! I will offer a discount of half the Paypal charges for cash-on-collection or guaranteed cheque. Please see my positive feedback and buy with confidence.'
You might say I asked for it, but according to ebay's own tutorial that I had to sit to re-enter the fray I can offer a discount! The tutorial says 'Correct. Sellers can offer a discount to the buyer for preferred forms of payment, but cannot charge buyers a surcharge (additional fee) for their use of ordinary forms of payment.'
I relisted one item with a deferred start time with a change in wording to test the water. The new wording was as follows.
'Payment by cash-on-collection preferred as the item has to be collected so there is no possibility of it not being received. I am also happy to receive a bank or building society cheque. Please see my positive feedback and buy with confidence!
This seller does not prefer Paypal for this transaction: if the buyer uses Paypal to pay for the item, in addition to the eBay sellers charges of £92, I would incur Paypal charges of £136 without the buyer receiving any benefit. Ebay through its ownership of Paypal is the only party to benefit! (When a buyer files a Paypal dispute and then escalates it to a claim Paypal closes the case if the item has been delivered or collected.)'
The item was withdrawn within 15 minutes confirming as I suspected that BB was watching. The email notification was as follows:
Your listing(s) contains the following information:
if the buyer uses Paypal to pay for the item, in addition to the eBay sellers charges of £92, I would incur Paypal charges of £136 without the buyer receiving any benefit.
You may not manipulate eBay's system in order to avoid paying certain eBay fees. This includes practices such as adding previously unspecified fees after the end of the auction, or charging excessive postage and packaging in order to recoup your listing and Final Value Fees.
Fee avoidance provides a poor buying experience and gives you an unfair advantage over other eBay sellers. Payment surcharges are a form of fee circumvention. eBay prohibits surcharging by sellers. Surcharging occurs when sellers pass the charges they incur for using eBay or third party services such as payment services onto buyers.
eBay has adopted this surcharging policy to ensure that all buyers receive clear and accurate pricing information when trading on eBay.co.uk. This surcharge policy applies only to items listed on eBay.co.uk.
Clearly all these points are inapplicable.
When will the UK or EU act to stop this abuse of a near monoploy market situation.