The official June 30 cut-off date for Windows XP is getting even fuzzier, with Dell vowing to sell PCs running the operating system until "at least 2009". The company has told customers Windows XP Professional will be available for OEM installation on PCs "through at least 2009 and likely longer", Neowin reports. All is not …
Why not sell MS-DOS again?
If I had produces I knew I could sell to a hungry public I know I would
M$ should sell all its back catalog, for what ever the markets will bear
I am sure Valve or anyone else with a network distribution system (Apple?) would help Microsoft in exchange for cash to re-sell Word 6 to happy punters
At last some common sense from an OEM.
No market for it, when there's FreeDOS to do the same job for zero cost and probably better support.
Why not MS-DOS?
Well, there ARE free replacements for MS-DOS that work better than the original (DR-DOS for one). As for things like Word, I'm very happy with Word 5.1 on my (older) Mac (that runs System 7.6.1!). It actually works quite well (no activation or other silly junk!).
Yes, old software/hardware has its own life, but if it still works, why bother changing it. Thankfully vehicles don't wear out as fast as software, and you can still buy spare parts for them. Try that with older software, and I wish you good luck!
Needed Dell to tell MS to piss off
Only the few larger OEM can do this, and congrats on Dell to stand up to the MS bullshit, at least they listen to what their customers wants, unlike MS, give customers what MS wants to give, shit or not.
I were hoping that if MS wouldnt back down, Dell may be forced to ship Linux instead, and with Dell's backing and providing proper suppoer for the OS, Linux may never be the same again, it will go main stream, like an unstoppable train... I guess MS saw this and .....
MS is lucky that Apple is not selling OSX CD , now that would be interesting, many of our customers whom dislike Vista keep asking if they should go Mac. Actually, I wonder why Apple is not doing it, except to keep the market for their own hardware sales.
End of mainstream support - April 2009?
Surely this means that mainstream support (i.e. security patches) must be extended beyond April next year. That won't make Microsoft happy because they were planning on corporates (who will not run OSes for which security patches are not available) all having to upgrade their clients to Vista.
Perhaps they'll release patches via Windows Update but not via WSUS or SMS, to try and trap the corporates anyway. Corporates already expect that sort of abuse anyway.
Why the Vista disk
Well, you need something to put your drink on I suppose
Heads will roll
I bet the Vista product managers are having a really bad day.
So that's Vista buggered then
One of the biggest OEMs is basically saying they're going to extend XP to when Windows 7 is rumoured to start putting in an appearance. Will this just lead to people skipping Vista? If only PC World would do the same... But then, even though I don't like them, I afford Dell a modicum of sense and technical knowledge. PCW are just morons.
there is going to be a point at which Windows 7 overtakes Vista, with several sources citing the release date as mid to late 2009.
Apart from the fact that W7 is going to be buggy as hell when it first emerges (blinking, into the silverlight? - 8 down), surely it is a bit of a waste of money getting Vista?
Recently I've had to explain to others how Vista is not yer bog-standard OS any more. Towards the end of last year the box shifters were only installing Vista, then came an option for OEM XP home. Shortly afterwards there was an option for XP home as installed, soon after came XP pro as OEM option. Now it's "select operating" system and XP pro or Home are there before Vista.
"Ah but the laptop I've seen has 3 gig of RAM"
"Yes, but why is it 3 gig?, XP can run with a lot less, aren't you paying over the odds for extra memory just to run Vista?. You'll lose some anyway when you assign memory to the graphics to enable it to run all the pretty stuff."
"Oh, I never thought of it like that"
Microsofts biggest mistake?
Surely their hardware-vendor-influenced decision to make Vista require the fanciest new hardware is the biggest cockup in Microsoft history?
XP runs fine on ancient 500mhz PC's with minimal onboard graphics, if Vista ran like butter on our current 1.6ghz+ with low end graphics chipsets it'd have done far better, and business wouldn't balk at the cost of upgrading.
Oh, and the ridiculous pricing.
Think of the statistics
"Dell will supply a Windows Vista disk with XP Pro machines"
So Microsoft can claim another shipped copy of Vista.
Step 1 - admit that your customer is correct
Step 2 - provide what your customer wants
I build my own, so the Dell deal isn't going to affect me directly, but I applaud the common business sence and the prospect of a few more years for M$ to finish building and testing Vista , for the hardware manufacturers to get proper effective drivers designed and for software writers to be able then to take full advantage of a 64bit environment on dual, quad and more-cores.
I NEVER thought I'd use this icon.
@Why not sell MS-DOS again?
Because when people saw how fast it boots, MS would have some explaining to do.
This isn't really news. Microsoft have always allowed OEM purchasers (in this case Dell) to buy the previous version of Windows to "downgrade".
From an article by Paul Thurrott:
"Windows XP isn't disappearing this year either. When June 30 comes and goes, Microsoft's customers will still be able to get XP if they really want it. But this isn't some special concession that was made specifically for this Windows version, nor is it a new policy: Microsoft has allowed its customers to buy a license to the current Windows version and "downgrade" to one of the previous versions for several years now. In fact, if a customer was "really feeling nostalgic," Nash said, they could downgrade to Windows 2000 if they wanted."
As I understand it, Dell could have passed this downgrade option on to all their customers over the past 7 years and given everyone the option to install Windows 2000 instead of XP. The only thing that will disappear on 30th June is the retail boxes of XP.
Re Why not sell MS-DOS again?
If you are interested I happen to have some DOS 6 discs with licenses...Oh and Windows 3.11 as well. Was keeping them for amusement value but if there's money in it...
Re: Why not sell MS-DOS again?
Mainly because any software they sell has to be supported also.. and MS aren't willing to put resources into supporting old software.
"This isn't really news. Microsoft have always allowed OEM purchasers (in this case Dell) to buy the previous version of Windows to "downgrade"."
Whilst that in itself isn't really news, the fact Dell are actually taking advantage of this scheme is certainly news. I'm pretty sure it's unprecedented. Although I do like the fact they are shipping a Vista CD with the box, just so MS can get their Vista sale :)
I am fine with vista on a home pc but....
with such big changes in vista it leaves businesses with a big problem. loads of old programs that have worked for years won't work with vista without major upgrading.
the lack of knowledge of elevating permissions on older programs is enough to break there use
If you can get a program to work you may have to disable UAC to get them to work which negates Vistas desirability
It can cost thousands to upgrade bespoke programs to work with vista and the added advantages of vista (and there are some) are not enough to make the change
Also on Windows7 I should imagine it still will have the same problems.
So long M$
Welcome to the economics world and the law of diminishing returns, the only way is down.
Why on earth buy an OS that requires a couple of nuclear generating stations and Blue Gene to run plus all the associated built in Downgrade Rights Management ?
I'll stick with my nice FREE(tard), transparent, occasionally bugged, bleeding edge, Linux Lego bricks.
If I need to run Windows progs XP Pro does nicely.
I'll wait for minwin, if it ever arrives as I don't need all M$ crap add-on progs, JUST A BLOODY OS !
Vista power ?
No thanks !
Bring back OS/2 too.
DOS sounds like a great idea
All I want to do is surf the net, answer emails, and play Doom II. I can do that from DOS.
Value of DOS disks
I sold a sealed set of MS DOS 6.22 disks with Windows 3.11 last month - fetched £27 on Ebay.
XP Home. That's the one i'll miss
As a retailer of all things computers. My customers want XP Home. Not XP Pro as thats an extra 50 quid. You do not get downgrade rights with all versions of Vista. Just Business and ultimate. The expensive ones.
Vista and games.
I really hate Vista for gaming. I was getting 8-10 Frames a second on Crysis on Vista and on XP I get 75-80 on the same machine. Same with most of the other games I installed. I had to change the IDE mode in the bios but it installed fine.
corporates (who will not run OSes for which security patches are not available)
Ericsson (the telecoms giant) runs Windows 2000 on all it's desktops and laptops, including my brand spanking new HP nw8440 with 4Gb ram (fat good that last Gb did me...)
On the positive side, I can heat my coffee by the CPU fan exhaust, since Win2k doesn't do SpeedStep, at all...
Not so fast...
Someone I met just got the replacement for his Dell which had gone defective on him. It originally came with XP on it but Dell claimed his replacement PC will only come with Vista now because the Dell hardware is no longer XP compatible. Something fishy is going on with Dell on this front.
Re: a point at which Windows 7 overtakes Vista
"...with several sources citing the release date as mid to late 2009."
Last I heard (was it The Old New Thing, I can't remember) Windows 7 had (as one aspect) a kernel with the spaghetti dependencies taken out. If true, that's the biggest re-write in MS history. Last time MS tried this, it set Vista back so far they had to can the project and start again, adding a couple of years delay.
I don't expect W7 in 2009. In fact, W7 just may not arrive. Seriously. Microsoft have *severe* problems keeping badly written applications working when they improve (or just fix) Windows. A truly clean version of Windows probably wouldn't fly in the marketplace, because it would break so much. Given that punters already have XP (a dirty version that runs their apps) there's not much incentive to upgrade to a clean version that doesn't.
Vista, just say no!
...anyway, Vistas replacement will be upon us next year...
on a different note, i've wondered for MANY YEARS why M$ don't come out with a 'gaming OS', something stripped right back to the bear essentials (neccesseties?!) of gaming 'life'...
maybe even dust down DOS and see what you can do with it?!
FINALLY!!!! This has been a long time coming
Once upon a time, when the PC was young and IBM ruled the roost, the PC was the tool, and the OS was a choice you made. In those days PCs were either made by IBM or they were 100% IBM compatible. Initially you could choose PC-DOS (IBM), MS-DOS (guess who) and of course CP/M (no one chose this - voluntarily at least).
Somewhere along the line (yes I do really know this history, I was in the industry from the beginning of the PC 'revolution') MS Windows birthed. The initial version was nothing more than a graphical front end for DOS. However Windows 3 and then 3.11 really moved Windows into the modern age. By the time that Windows NT came along - incidentally killing OS/2 along the way, the fates were sealed. Windows was here to stay. Since then Windows 95, 98, 98SE, ME, NT 3.1, 3.51, 4, Win2K, XP and now Vista (aka MEII) have continued the line. One thing has been a common thread through all of these iterations of Windows. It was Microsoft calling the shots. Not the user. Not the hardware makers. Not Intel, and certainly not IBM on who's PC the entire industry is based. Microsoft has become used to being the top dog. Everyone else was a commodity supplier and had to bite it.
Finally though, someone has had the courage to push back, and not only that, so have consumers. Windows is/has become a commodity. What do we do with our PCs? Games? Internet? Music? Other Media? Work? When the PC was born it was all work and very little play. The OS was important because it was how we got access to the things we work with. Now though it's more of a launcher for our game software, the Internet browser we use or the media browser. Windows isn't in any way essential to any of these tasks. Windows is little more than a collection of APIs for games, and the browser has become central to information access and even the OS itself. Only in the work environment is much of Windows itself actually important. Windows has thus become something of a commodity. People - consumers - no longer need Windows to access the Net, music, movies, pictures or games. Any OS with a browser can manage it. Games consoles provide gaming, even to the point of Direct X or Open GL compatibility.
So, now finally, Microsoft has to face what the PC makers and Intel faced a long time ago, they are the provider of a commodity. Their trouble is that they simply don't act like it, nor do they want to accept it. Vista marks the first time when users really began to ask why they needed to upgrade. Why spend another $200 when XP is working out just fine? Why have to learn all the new crap for Vista when they're quite happy with XP? Why pay for a new version of Windows when they already have a license for XP? Why purchase an OS that makes it harder to use your PC than the old one, and comes with more restrictions on what you can do with your own hardware?
So, finally, a PC manufacturer pushes back, and there's absolutely nothing that MS can do about it. If one or two other PC makers follow Dell's lead, I think that consumers will realize that they too have some power in this situation. Finally, perhaps Microsoft will have to act like a supplier of tools and not a monopolistic monster who can do as they please and damn the consequences. I'm not holding my breath on this one though. Microsoft has an arrogance that makes even Sony look humble. And by god, that is not an easy thing to do.
Oh and another thing.
Opens visual studio.
Do you want to open Visual Studio?
Yes! Why ON GOD'S EARTH WOULD I F**KING double click it if I didn't?
Close visual studio.
Open another project.
Do you want to open Visual Studio?
Open SQL Query Analyser.
Do you want to open SQL Query Analyser?
In truth, I can't remember anymore whether it actually asks these questions, because I was so angry with Vista that I've stopped using it months ago, and the memories are fading. I'm quite calm these days.
Funny I asked my Dell manager yesterday and she knew nothing.
I was told no plans to offer XP after June.
Show of hands:
Of the crowd here, not the punters, but the actual techies, who actually has paid for a Windows license for their own use since Win2k? I mean, really?
I'm wondering if this will finally push even corporate users to switch to a non-MS operating system.
Cool, an OS that not only slows your PC down in the best Vista tradition, but goes on to insult your customer base. Surely even today's retarded consumers will acknowledge that suggesting they stop writing joined-up words and do a spot of finger painting isn't exactly a compliment on their intellect.
But slowing the performance of your PC another 30% just so you can do it? There's only so long people can look at Mac and Linux and say "any more from Microsoft and I'm switching".
(No I'm not a Mac or Linux user).
@Show of Hands
I've paid for Windows licenses since Win 2K. In fact, I think I've bought 5 XP Pro licenses in total. I was, and am, happy with XP Pro.
Some things never die...
Here's a snippet from my web log stats on hits from various WIndows versions:
reqs pages OS
133383 6704 Windows XP
9604 1100 Windows 2000
2842 493 Windows NT
1723 489 Windows Server 2003
3055 330 Unknown Windows
2287 137 Windows 98
1722 95 Windows 95
857 79 Windows ME
83 24 Windows 3.1
80 22 Windows CE
Note that there actually seems to be a Windows 3.1 user-- though I suppose it could be due to spoofed browser strings. On the other hand, it could be an old 386 CPU still getting some good use or running in a museum or thrift store (though I don't know what ancient browser would actually run on it)... And this list is current but I see no Vista at all (perhaps it's showing up as "Unknown?"). If it ain't broke, why fix it?
Vista is another windows Me, a rush job that has it's problems. Yes we support Dell and it's choice of XP or Vista............ not new from dell who supplied windowss 3.11 with windows 95 as a choice. Linux give you way more features on it's GUI ( Ubuntu Linux) than Windows Vista. It's time that people have a chioce of OSes rather than a one man show hogging the market. Data exchange can happen accross cross platforms.......forget Windows go to Linux
Linux not yet ready
This is great news for a lot of business users. There is no other OS that comes close to reliability and supportability.
I have played with Linux for quite a few years as a desktop end user but I still have not fully switched to it for daily business use. Even Ubuntu which is very good, is still not an easy transition for XP business users. Frigging about with Wine, Crossover or Win4Lin is not a good enough solution for most business users.
Until Linux behaves and offer apps that look and work very closely to XP then linux will only grow very slowly, and may even tail off whilst some of the herd decide instead to jump across to MacOSX rather than cluncky funcky nerdy Linux.
Paris, because she would surely not fu'n'ck with Linux