UK cops arrest six alleged BitTorrent music uploaders

I wonder...

...if music industry people will ever get the idea of certain things. For example:

"It focused on high quality files and featured trackers for pre-release material, "

Maybe they should not enforce release dates on albums (which exist because of the vagaries of physical releases, which don't affect digital), and maybe encourage retailers to deal in FLAC/320Kbps, non-DRMed files.

OiNK was set up to satisfy a hole in the existing market. If the industry would satisfy the demand themselves, thereby removing the market for these sites, many of them would not exist. At least, those that did exist would not be held in higher regard than the industry itself, as OiNK was.

RIPA

They have to be able to prove that you have one, if they cannot prove that you have an account they cannot prove the criminal case against you that the sentence would require.

However for you to be arrested they must have fairly solid grounds....

Re:> "force suspects to disclose encryption keys."

If they can prove they had an account but refuse to cough up the password, yes.

If it is unclear whether you had an account, then I think you're fine.

I wouldn't cough it up. I would just cite my right not to incriminate myself. I'd leave it up to them to prove that I owned and used the account to break the law - then leave it up to court to decide whether their logs of internet traffic actually tell them who was sat in front of the computer at the time.

I honestly do not know a single person that would BUY music because it is illegal to download it. People BUY music because they want to pay money for it or have the original cd / box. Saying that, I buy music from iTunes because it is CONVENIENT. I think the recording industry should follow that business model up. The internet has taken the impetus away from the corporations and put it into the hands of majority public - which is where it should be. The public is basically telling the record company what their music is worth and they don't like it.

If cars ran on water, you wouldn't take it to the garage and pay £1.35 a litre, you'd fill it up from your sink, illegal or not.

@AC - If the local police have anything more serious....

Yes, because the police can only do one crime at once, someone was murdered in Glasgow the other week that means we should be free to commit any crime we wish there until they've caught the murderer.

You're quite right, the police should only ever look at the most serious crime in their area. Duh.

@Kevin King

I think you're after the Fraud Act 2006:-

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts2006/ukpga_20060035_en_1

Specifically:-

Fraud by false representation

(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and

(b) intends, by making the representation—

(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

You'll note that the gain doesn't have to be his own and the loss only a "risk of loss". The gain or loss have to be money or property though.

@ David Lavery

"However for you to be arrested they must have fairly solid grounds...."

That depends on what kind of mood they are in.

Civil or Criminal?

Why are the police involved so heavily with what should surely be a civil case and not a criminal case?

If I wore a tin hat I'd say they were either just trying to scare people or were using the database to compare with their lists of people that they're interested in for 'other reasons' .

I kinda have to like the artist to appreciate the music

And can people really respect an artist if they are just lifting their works?

Yes, the handling of this is far too draconian, and will probably cause more problems than it solves.

But, why if people don't want to buy music, do they setup sites to pirate the music, why not just make music?

Rosegarden is a great opensource midi sequencer and music composition tool, get cracking there and offer the fruits of your labour for nothing to the rest of the world if you so desire.

And artists need to a grow a pair, and hire tech people directly to build up a band's image and distribution channels. It really is not that hard, they just need to ask people to build them a system so they can sell their music directly to the consumer. If the sales price is reasonable they will do well, people want to buy off bands directly. This is the whole ludicrous thing about all of this, people want to support the bands they like, the bands have to let them, and let the fans put the shame on those who try to get this work without paying gratuity.

@in other news...

<Q>there's a Cleveland in the UK?</Q>

I guess you're from the US? Spend time with a map of the US and UK and you will spot MANY of the town names are the same. If the name wasn't nicked from the UK, then it probally came from Europe somewhere.

When us Europeans were busy colonising your country way back in the past... there wasn't exactly much originality in the town names. :) I guessed it reminded us of home.... well, why else call it "New York"?

Re: there's a Cleveland in the UK?

That's nothing. There's a Moscow.

notes...

1) Fraud and theft (how else do they get pre release material) are criminal activities.

2) People involved in one type of crime are often involved in other types. The cops don't much care what they get the crooks for as long as they do.

Cleveland

Is this where Anne of Cleves was from?

I wonder if the people who've been arrested have been informed of what they've been charged with yet?

Force suspects to disclose encryption keys

I was under the impression that, "force suspects to disclose encryption keys." only applied if you were suspected of terrorist activities?

I wonder

I Wonder if I downloaded of OiNK.cd and I then bought the CD's when they came out would it be illegal. Sure I would have downloaded something but only because it was available and I intended to buy the CD anyway.

The problem I see is people what their music ASAP by what ever means possible, if its out in one country and not another then people will download it, people want top quality of audio. If the music biz did global releases (at the same time) and allowed customers to have this quality of music how many of those lost sales would they get back.

Wiped the evidence?

"A coordinated move by Dutch police also seized the invitation-only website's servers, which were later returned wiped."

RE: no account

RIPA trials are closed court, the penalty for talking about the case is I think 5-10 years in jail. So we wouldn't hear about it , if someone was charged for failing to provide account details, which they didn't have.

Have music sales improved since OiNK was shut down?

"The BPI and IFPI worked with the police in order to close down the OiNK tracker site last October. The illegal online distribution of music, particularly pre-release, is hugely damaging, and as OiNK was the biggest source for pre-releases at the time we moved to shut it down".

If OiNK was "hugely damaging", then closing it down must have had a measurable (positive) impact on industry numbers, right?

Anyone want to bet that there is absolutely no evidence of any improvement in the "Music Industries" health since OiNK was shut down? Because OiNK wasn't causing any damage in the first place.

few points

First, it wasn't the Dutch police, it was an arm of the Dutch tax agency.

Second, i think that ,were it really a deep investigation into the pre-release music, they'd find it came from the very people they claim this is hurting - some of the 'thuosands of workers'. Perhaps they weren't happy about the industry activites either.

3) I have had dealings with the BPI myself, many years ago. even in the late 90s, they were avid practitioners of auto-cranial-proctology.

4) the website was removed from the BPI's control only after myself, and a few others sent strongly worded letters to the Cleveland Chief Constable that such actions were a clear disregard for presumption of innocence. The day after we sent them (and after Torrentfreak wrote about it) control was returned.

Things like this are why Alex hanff's Phorm protest are important to get behind. It is, however, time we british stood up, and showed the fighting spirit that was in evidence in the early 40's, rathre than mimic the moaning and gossiping creations Les Dawson and Julie Walters - that complain bitterly about everything, ut never do anything about it.

Re:> "force suspects to disclose encryption keys."

@Luke Barton: "I wouldn't cough it up. I would just cite my right not to incriminate myself."

<ironic laughter> I do hope you live in the US, not the UK. Then again, you quoted a price in GBP. Here's a tip - remember that the 'right' you are quoting is "the fifth amendment to the American constitution". In other word, it doesn't apply to UK law.

At least it's better than French-law, where the simple fact you're in front of the court means you're guilty and must now prove your innocence. After all, the Police wouldn't have arrested you unless you *were* guilty, right?

@ Aubry Thornton - Right to Silence

Regarding defendants in criminal trials, the right to silence was codified in the Judges' Rules in 1912 in England and Wales.

There is also no general duty to assist police with their inquiries.

RE: the police only care about high profile crime

Could that be because the avrage little old lady that complains about people not being caught gives a discription of "it was two men...i think"?

I have been in the same position. Two people tryed to mug me. I was able to give full description of the two, the car they were driving and which way they went. They were caught within an hour.

I have heard and seen this befor. People complaining about the police not doing anything when they dont tell the Police anything.

A friend of mine workes on the desk at a Police station and often recives complaints that the Police are not doing anything when all they have had is "two men stole my money, around this time at this place. I don't remeber what they look like. Why dont you arrest them?".

@AC

Wan't the decision to invoke the right of silence changed to "assume guilt" in law by Blanket and Nu Lab sometime this century. Around the time when many IT activities were criminalised as opposed to civilised, just so that the police could be involved. As demonstrated in the BT Phorm fiasco, not by the likes of you and me but by the likes of BSA and the Music Industry. Bliars front door always seemed open to his new showbiz pals which may have had something to do with it at the time.

so

is the law on passwords in conflite with the law givving us right ot remain silent?