back to article Cops demand more time in marathon OiNK investigation

Cleveland police have again extended the bail granted to Alan Ellis, the administrator of Oink.cd, an invitation-only BitTorrent tracker shut down in a high profile dawn raid last October. The deadline for charges to be brought has been moved from today, 6 May, to 1 July. It will bring the total length of the probe to more than …

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Alert

Hundreds Of Thousands Of Pounds

"Cleveland Police said that Oink had made its operators "hundreds of thousands of pounds". "

As a former bit torrent tracker owner, I can assure anyone, the only tracker operators who may have possibly came close to this is the pirate bay operators. Any earnings were from donations from the website members. I also ran a very high profile bittorrent tracker with over 160k members and trust me they don't earn that kind of silly money!

It's simply talk, to make the arrest sound like a great big raid!

btw, same applies for drugs raids! if they say it's worth 15 million in reality its 5 million.

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I'll bet..

..that the 'hundreds of thousands' figure was reached by the same people who figure someone sharing a music file has cost them billions of dollars; because obviously everyone in the world would have gone put and bought their purile pap had it not been available on a p2p network.

Whatever your views on those who illegally share files thier adversories; who are using the law like a sledgehammer against them, are most certainly stains on the mouldy motel mattress of humanity.

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Flame

Quit wasting time and money and go find some bloody terrorists

I will lick my own shoes clean if this guy has made anything at all, except for donations which don't count, because i would imagine these barely cover server costs anyway.

jesus there are real crimes that need stopping, stop this bs

stupid laws, stupid government, yep I'm in Rip Off Britain alright

and think about this brown, if there wasn't a stupid law to stop cdwow for example selling cheap imports, would thousands of people (me included) go and use the nearest torrent sites and grab albums for free?

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This post has been deleted by its author

Anything like drug money?

Whereby the price is calculated at the maximum theoretical value even though there is no way that the guy with a shipping container full of hash will be selling it in individual eighths.

They've probably found a record of ten or twenty quid being donated here or there and just mutiplied that by the total number of users. All of a sudden he's raking it in.

It's an unfortunate fact that maths and police don't mix very well. But what can you expect with the entry qualifications they ask for - must be able to follow orders and swing heavy stick.

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Anonymous Coward

*whistles*

I wonder what happened to the list of usernames and respective email accounts from the Oink db?

//Gets coat and heads for the hills

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Pirate

"hundreds of thousands of pounds" Part II

Shurely a tyop ... "hundreds OR thousands of pounds" sounds much more realistic... After all there wasn't a massive incentive to donate to OiNK since, unlike many private trackers, they didn't reward you with upload credit for donating. Or so I'm told...

However, I've heard of one place, where they post their donation stats, that generally take anywhere from US$2000 to US$15000, in a given month, to cover their stated US$2500 server costs...

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Anonymous Coward

This alleged money....

This guy made 'hundreds of thousands' and yet he lived in a terraced house in Middlesbrough.

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Anonymous Coward

>Quit wasting time and money and go find some bloody terrorists

Yeah, there are some police investigating robberies and such like, when there are terrorists and murderers to be caught.

When will they learn that every single police officer should be looking for terrorists and no-one else until they've got them all..

All this trying to solve different types of offences at the same time, it's maaaaad.

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Al
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More silliness

As we're so often told, this sort of thing funds terrorism. Plod is doubtless still looking for the 'hundreds and thousands of pounds' made by OiNK that went straight into the coffers of enemies of the state.

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Pirate

OiNK

was always seen, by alot of people I ome into contact with as stuck up, secretive and rude to non members, perhaps embracing the spirit of "the scene" would of prevented this from happening?

*certain* other sites that have open reg thursdays, invite codes that are not like gold dust and a mod team that does it job never seem to have these sorts of issues, and no I'm not talking about TPB.

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Anonymous Coward

@Arran

"would of prevented "?

Do you, by chance, mean "Would have prevented"?

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Anonymous Coward

Gone but not forgotten.

It wasnt stuck up, secretive or rude to non members when I was a non member but when I joined it was a tightly run ship with a simple rule "Take the p*ss and your gone!", everyone was always pleasant and the fact its rules were upheld meant that you didnt have to put up with nonsensical posts saying "this w1!! h@xx0R ur system" or "its f@k3!!!!!" and all the other rubbish you see on any other torrent sites. I miss OiNK, it rocked with bells on.

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@JonB

@JonB - Nah, they should get the paedos first, followed by the rapists, then do the rest aplhabetically, one crime at a time until it all crime has finished. It's the only sensible way. Sorry, but Terrorism is right down the list.

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@JonB

If a crime had been committed then investigating it would be reasonable.

Copyright infringement is a civil matter and shouldn't involve the police.

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Anonymous Coward

@Steve

>If a crime had been committed then investigating it would be reasonable.

Would "suspicion of conspiracy to defraud " be such a crime?

@Fraser

Alphabetcially? You'd go for bigamy before GBH?

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Stop

Re: JonB

Perhaps the point that the AC was making was that a set of plods will have been investigating this alleged office for eight months before charges are laid!

So a few questions how many plods are on the investigation team? 3, 4, 10? Chasing an *estimated* lost of (police figures) Hundreds of thousands of pounds? In the UK the plods don't expend that amount of effort for a murder.

It is the disproportionate amount of effort this is raising ire here.That and the fact that (I understand - correct me if I am wrong) copyright infringement is a civil offence not a criminal offence.

Why on earth are the police continuing with this investigation? If they haven't got enough to charge him with by now then his servers should be returned and he should be left alone. Just because Big Business is screaming at the local Chief Constable that doesn't mean that the plods have to be involved. Thought I understand the individual plods keenness to carry on with this investigation, it certainly beats chasing scrote muggers around the streets. Much less physical & dangerous, almost as good as operating a speed camera.

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Flame

@JonB

Assuming of course you were being sarcastic... otherwise your opinion is the same as mine.

If Terrorism is the Big Deal that it is made out to be, ie a threat sufficient to justify the erosion of civil liberties - 21+ days without charge, A National ID card, Databases linking everything with everything else, Fingerprinting of passengers, Invasion of oil producing / transporting countries, Seven dum-dum bullets at point blank range into the skull of an innocent man without warning - with no repurcusions, then Yes: the police should be making it their top priority.

Personally, I'd deal with terrorism by funding the taxman, so that they can audit all the CONVICTED terrorists, their friends, family, known associates, neighbours, landlords, employers, employees, Places of Worship (churches, mosques, synagogues, covens ) and even the newsagent / corner shop where they buy their newpapers and cigarettes. See what that would turn up. Why? Someone puts these guys up to it. Someone is financing them, Someone knew something. Follow the money. Let the auditee's know that this is simply because they had a connection to a mad bomber.

No Heavy Police Presence. No accidental shootings, just a bunch of bloodsucking leeches making sure that everything is neat and tidy. It'd put the fear of financial ruin (God can wait) into them. Keep your finances nice, clean and above board, and you'll be safe. If your finances are dodgy, you'd better make sure that none of it ends up anywhere near the bomb-making nutters.

Anon, because the financial idea is so Evil that I'm expecting the pitchforks and flaming torch mob any minute. This way, I can slag my idea off under my own id, and pretend it wasn't me. Hell, I'd even join the lynch mob to prevent this.

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Black Helicopters

What a ridiculous waste of tax payers money

The Police should stop wasting their time with harmless small fry like this bloke, and go after the serious criminals, like: our government, the Political Class, our PC press, the fraudsters running our banks and all the other knaves who expect the tax payer to pay for their negligence.

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Gates Halo

Money

IIRC something like 8% of users had donated, so about 13,000. Most of these were probably for the minimum amount; since people were donating for extra features, not out of altruism; giving a total of perhaps £25k after currency conversions. That dosen't go far when you're running TB source, and are getting on the order of 10m scrapes per hour

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Paris Hilton

@JonB - Bigamy before GBH

Definitely support that. Anyone who is married to two women simultaneously is obviously insane enough to commit all sorts of atrocities, just to get out of the house.

And don't our Submission beleiving friends endorse polygamy as well? Not that I'm suggesting / implying anything.

Oh Crap. I mentioned Religion. AC for me.

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Anonymous Coward

@The AC's

AC1 - Yes, it's an expensive investigation, if no charges are laid then someone should be deeply in the shit. The moronic "there's a more serious crime they could be investigating instead" response, deserves to be mocked though it's obvious that they need to investigate other crimes as well.

AC2 - Bit confused and rambling there, but your guilt by association concept is interesting. Doesn't sound very fair, but probably cheap.

BTW I wonder what the possible fraud consists of....

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Anonymous Coward

RE:

"That and the fact that (I understand - correct me if I am wrong) copyright infringement is a civil offence not a criminal offence."

You are wrong - copyright infringement is a criminal offence if done for profit, which will be why the police are investigating here.

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Anonymous Coward

it all

It all just whiffs of the police going on a cavalry charge after being asked to do so by some less technical types.

The police nicked the guy, stole his kit, and got back to the station - and then realised that they couldn't find evidence to fit any laws that they wanted to charge him with.

Back in the day I'm pretty sure they'd of had to get all the evidence first and then nick him, as well there was no immediate threat of the guy fleeing or endagering peoples lives.

Now days they get on their horses yell "yeeehaaawwww" and keep digging until they can find something that may stick.

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Actually...

You think they're trying to garner more time so they can finish their P2P sessions without anyone bothering to see what they're really up to?

I'd be suspicious if they didn't throw tantalizing "evidence" in their bosses' way.

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Lol

Seriously hundreds of thousands of pounds? Lol I used to run one of the very first torrent sites back in the day I ended up having to shut it down because I couldn't afford to keep the server going when I was getting 3 million hits a day. I don't think I got more than £30 in donations. Because it was a private server maybe it did get some more but not much thats for sure.

Its kind of the same thing when they say someone file sharing has caused x amount of damages. Seriously if they weren't sharing it then id just find it some place else, even if I had to just borrow a cd off a friend then copy it. Good stuff I will buy but most isn't good so I don't pay for it.

Thank fully I wasn't an OiNK member though because to be honest torrent's really do suck now day's.

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@it all

> Now days they get on their horses yell "yeeehaaawwww" and keep digging until they can find something that may stick.

They've probably found some naughty pictures on his computer, so they're just hanging on until the Extreme Porn legislation comes in, then they can do him for that!

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Coat

Police drugs raid estimates...

I want to be the police's dealer! Suckers will pay £20 for an E, or £25 for an eighth, all the way up, even when they're talking about tons! Haven't they ever heard of a bulk discount?

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IT Angle

Eh??

@Anonymous Coward Posted Tuesday 6th May 2008 14:44 GMT:

"Personally, I'd deal with terrorism by funding the taxman, so that they can audit all the CONVICTED terrorists, their friends, family, known associates, neighbours, landlords, employers, employees, Places of Worship (churches, mosques, synagogues, covens ) and even the newsagent / corner shop where they buy their newpapers and cigarettes. See what that would turn up. Why? Someone puts these guys up to it. Someone is financing them, Someone knew something. Follow the money"

Rather parochial attitude there methinks. Osama McMurphy has a mobile phone shop which is doing a bit of Carousel fraud during the slack periods. Cash disappears into sock drawer and then off to PakorArmagh during the regular visits back home. Brit Taxman asks for the trail to be followed, but lo and behold- PakorArmagh Taxman says nothing untoward on their side.No amount of taxman inquisition is going to square away the billions that leak out of our economies. The only way to do that is ban all cash and equivalents, and have every transaction audited - no matter how small, with no money crossing borders without Govt approval. A few dictatorships have tried that - it's never worked.

A dragnet will also dredge up a lot of by-catch, and just like pitch-sized industrialised fish-vacuums - it will also destroy entire ecosystems. I've been through a tax audit. It's unpleasant to say the least being treated like a criminal when you're entirely innocent. Especially when you know you're *paying* the little sh1t and providing him with a gold-plated pension.

I got to the point of thinking "what's the point of running my own business, when Mr Taxman can threaten to destroy my life for not being able to disprove something I didn't do. Better be a safe little public serf and a cost to the economy the rest of my life".

Thing is, I knew when I set up my business I could get the Inland Revenue Anal Probe - but I wouldn't put up with it just because I had the misfortune of sharing the same terrace as a suspected "terrrrist".

Maybe if the Powers That Be stopped equating the likes of Oink with terrrists, they'd *have* the resources to go after real terrrrists.

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Dead Vulture

Alan is screwed

Unfortuantely Alan is screwed, Considering the cops on this have taken 6 months, it basically means they haven't found anything of substance. Consdiering the backlash that would result in releasing him without charge they are now digging and digging deep to find some offence to charge him with to justify the original arrest

This will be their last chance otherwise the court will force the prosecution to proceed with the brief or drop all charges. Unless of course there is an unscrupolous organisation behind the scene pushing their own agenda

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Paris Hilton

@AC

@ac surely you jest , would not the money have been better spent in finding all those corrupt cops on the take and fixing up falling down cop shops that dot the land !

Choices , it would appear they are having some difficulty in locating copyright materials for the DPP to commence prosecution in an open court , for why do I get the feeling an eight letter word ending in "S" starting with a big red "B" has been written on the first submission ?

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@ Aaron

"Good stuff I will buy but most isn't good so I don't pay for it."

That's a pretty feeble justification. If it isn't good enough to pay for, why would you want it in the first place?

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Anonymous Coward

>Police drugs raid estimates...

...are normally described as "street value", that is, they mean no bulk discount is applied.

They do overvalue them though, but then how much experience of prices can a copper have?

@Aaron

>I don't think I got more than £30 in donations.

Perhaps the guy was better at getting people to donate than you?

Perhaps there's some fraud suspected? That would explain the "suspicion of fraud" wouldn't it?

>Seriously if they weren't sharing it then id just find it some place else...

A "shop" perhaps?

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Pirate

@JonB

>"They do overvalue them though, but then how much experience of prices can a copper have?"

None, of course, the bent bastards are infamous for nicking the confiscated stash and taking it home to smoke themselves. I can't *count* the number of times I've heard of people being busted - and suddenly when they get to court, there's only a quarter of it there and that's all they're being charged with.

As the old saying goes:

I hate people who take drugs -

- coppers, bouncers, customs officers, ...

Greedy bastards should buy their own like the rest of us.

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Ash
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Nothing to do with the amount of evidence...

The police IT dept are still trying to figure out how to turn the pc on.

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Unhappy

maybe...

the police are just waiting for the roll out of the extreme images law and then they will have something to nab him for?

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