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back to article Apple gets (slightly) less sneaky with Windows Safari play

Apple has updated Apple Software Update, giving iTunes and Quicktime users (a bit) more notice before slipping Safari onto their Windows machines. But Mozilla is still peeved. In mid-March, Steve Jobs unveiled Safari 3.1, and to celebrate, he started offering the new browser to Windows users via the software updater that …

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Unhappy

yea it miffed me

so I disabled ALL apple updates...

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Jobs Horns

I agree with Lilly

This is a step in the right direction listing Safari as new software, but to have it ticked by default is just flicking the V at everyone who complained.

"We will make changes to the software updater to make it clearer, but given this is the only way we can get the great unwashed to download our unwanted browser we'll carry on doing it, thank you very much."

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Jobs Horns

I'm the other way round

I have Safari installed so web-pages I design can be tested, and I also have quicktime; but whenever there is an update I get offered bloody iTunes + Quicktime, which I just do not want ... EVER. I can ignore the update, but when they update the software again, I just get offered it again. Just updated the updater though and it has I+Q in the new software section rather than as an "update", but it is still automatically ticked :(

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Thumb Up

Replace IE Faster

Yes, it's a little sneaky, but anything that gets the masses off IE as fast as possible, I'm all in favor...Opera, Safari, FF...anything but IE to save them all from viruses, ActiveX, redirects, slow loading, broken addresses since you can't just press <enter> to go to a domain, you have to type www or .com, all of it.

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try anything once

Well I took advantage of the download. It doesn't handle bookmarks as well as IE or FF, or Opera, and unlike FF and Opera there isn't an adblocker in Windows. Now I know it's not that good, which is helpful.

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Jobs Horns

could be a good browser

I don't like the way Apple are still trying to trick peope into downloading stuff, but the webkit engine safari uses is actually pretty good. It's just a shame the windows interface to it is such an inappropriately identical mac os clone rather than making it look and work like any other windows browser.

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Flame

iTunes = Nagware

Even if iTunes and Quicktime are up to date you *still* get asked if you want Safari!

Bloody disgraceful it is.

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Silver badge

Sod Safari, Unbundle iTunes!

As per title. I don't mind Safari so much, though it shouldn't be forced on users. iTunes, however, is the sole reason I don't use QuickTime any more. I want QuickTime. I should not have to install iTunes - a CPU hogging pile of crap that I don't need - in order to get QuickTime.

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Jobs Horns

Go one better ... DELETE ALL Apple Software from your PC!

Apple and Stevie Gods are a bunch of arrogant bastards, well so are most Mac users come to think of it, but this kind of activity if MS was doing it would be investigated by the LibTards in Congress by the calls of MONOPOLY from the Apple Hacks in the media and all the MacTards.

Enough is enough from these jerks from the Stupertino campus of Limousine Liberality and their addict followers. Boycott all Apple! Burn your iPud, or at least step on it in public! Fling your iPhony through the windows of the nearest Apple Crematorium Store (that's what they look like)!

If you NEED Quicktime, remove Apple's and install QuickTime Alternate 2.5.1 ( http://www.codecguide.com/download_qt.htm )

Get rid of iTunes! Use something else, ANYTHING ELSE! THere are plenty around, unless you're stupid enough to be feeding Stevie Gods retirement fund and gassing his $80 Mil Carbon Foot-print G4 Private Jet!

Most importantly, be belligerent against Apple and MacTards; bad mouth them, push them in crowds, trip them in hallways while they're talking on their iPhone or cut them off in traffic and steal their parking places, laugh at them and point while yelling MACTARD! Write TV stations and magazines that run those lying MacTard v. PC ads and threaten to boycott them unless they stop accepting those blatant lie adverts!

Do an "Operation Mac Chaos" when ever you see a poll or survey about Mac or Apple gadget reliability, or how good Apple service is, switch parties and pretend you have a Mac and VOTE TERRIBLE! UNRELIABLE! AWFUL CUSTOMER SERVICE! APPLE SUCKS! .... well it's all true! AppleTards and MacTards have been doing this in PC polls for years and now it's time to turn the tables (thanks Rush Limbaugh for this idea! You know that tard is a Mac fanboy too!)

UNITE PC users!! All together .... F U Apple and MacTards!

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Jobs Horns

RE: Replace IE Faster

Well that would be ok but a lot of people I know who are almost computer illiterate don't even realize what it is so its just wasting hard drive space.

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Nev
Stop

Au Revoir!

What's this "Bonjour" shite that's turning up on my PC too?

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Flame

Not as bad as Silverlight and Microsoft

Ok, so I installed Office 2008 on my Mac.

I carefully selected what I wanted and didn't want installed.

Then it informed me of a critical update. No problem.

It installed Silverlight. Arrgh! I didn't want it, it didn't tell me it was going to install it, it didn't give me an option not to.

But is anyone whining about that? Nope, they are yelling at Apple who at least gave you the choice of installing the new software.

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Anonymous Coward

The freeky geek is back!

Run for the (Cupertino) hills, the web-based {wo}man with the extreme "views" is back in town and worse than every .... very sad and we should all boycott their postings and scroll straight past them 8-)

There is sarcasm and then there is vituperation!

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@Sod Safari, Unbundle iTunes!

You all seem to forget the simple fact that Quicktime can be downloaded separately from iTunes ... however iTunes *REQUIRES* Quicktime .. i.e. if you want iTunes you get Quicktime as well but if you only need Quicktime then you can download it on its own from here:

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/

or is that far too obvious 8-}

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@By Nev & @Maisie

Nev - If you knew you wouldn't be calling it sh.

Maisie - "It doesn't handle bookmarks as well as IE or FF" - so how much better - in real terms not "I don't like it terms" do those 2 handle bookmarks?

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Joe
Alert

Aah, Webster!

How we've all missed your bile-filled rantings! How's the spittle-flecked monitor?

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Sneaky-o

Sneaky, everything from Apple and Adobe is packed with 'extras' 'bundles' and unnecessary system tray icons (Why do I need a Quicktime icon?? Why is Adobe 60MB???). Ths Safari stunt annoyed me when I read about it, and even more annoyed me when I was offered it twice. Sneaky move Apple, were'nt Microsoft not ticked off about this not so long ago?

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Jobs Horns

Apple is as bad as Real Networks, Microsoft, Adobe et al

<rant>

I mainly use linux, but I do have a windoze PC with itunes (and the mandatory quicktime) and somewhere along the line quicktime has decided that being "the worlds greatest movie player" is not enough, and now it is also the worlds greatest picture viewer. So in order for me to benefit from all its apple goodliness it unilaterally decides to set itself as the default picture viewer.

Once having done that, now, everytime I click on a jpg the it then insists on telling me (ie: nagging at me) that quicktime is not configured as the default player for all known video formats and asks me to click yes or no to fix that aggregious state of affairs. Helpfully Apple also provide a "don't ask me again" checkbox which is somewhat comforting.

Comforting, that is, until the next time I click on a jpg where I am once again presented with the exact same nag dialog.

So I figure what the hell, I can't be bothered figuring out how to change the default picture viewer to something slightly less fascistic (linux user, remember) and I don't want frigging quicktime anyway cuz the stupid POS won't even work with xvid stuff on 'doze anyway so I what the hell I'll just uninstall the bugger, that'll shut it up.

Which it did.

And that kiddies, is how I learnt that iTunes *requires* quicktime to work.

</rant>

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Stop

@ all complainers

Yeah, it's annoying that the box is checked by default. Waaa!

Why haven't you ceased using all Apple software because of this? I stopped using all MS software long ago, which makes me a competently adaptable human being. What does that make you?

The checked-by-default practice is annoying, sneaky, even dastardly! Its also unlikely to change until Jobs has obtained his objective of sufficient IE displacement. In the meantime you have three options: 1. Uninstall all Apple software. 2. Just download the damn thing and never use it. 3. Do nothing and keep circle-jerking with your fellow compulsive complainers.

I think I can safely predict your choice, since who in their right mind would throw away a perfectly good excuse to circle jerk?

If you had any sense at all you wouldn't be in this position of trying to use your gaming machine for such inappropriate purposes as web browsing in the first place, so my expectations of you are quite low.

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Flame

Wintards...

Some of you Wintards amaze me. I use and have used pretty much all the main platforms out there, now i've never had an issue with reading what the checkboxes list, i've also never had a hissy fit over software which did.

Okay, so lets look at two things cited by people here:

a. Program on install sets it self as default viewer/player/etc for file type - I reckon you could name probably a few hundred Windows apps which do that

b. A significant number of worthwhile Windows applications do have checkboxes checked by DEFAULT for toolbars of all sorts (Yahoo, Google, etc).

Thing is neither of these two things stump me or leave me crying for mummy like those here are doing. At-least Apple are doing the decent thing and making people do a double take when they see the programs UI has changed and now offers two sections, increasing the likeliness of them checking what it has.

If these wintards weren't so technically incompetent they wouldn't find issues so confronting that they come on the net and go on paranoid deluded rants best personified by everyones best friend Webster has here.

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Jim

Phreaky is a parody?

Is it me but WP appears to have become a parody of itself. The last comment is just so chocked full of anti-mac cliche that I just read it as an anti-fanboi (ie anti those who use the wank term 'fanboi') commentary.

Maybe I'm just going crazy though...

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Paris Hilton

@Ainteenbooty

Yeah, which is why I lumped apple in with "Real et al" in my subject line.

As for the myriad of pre-ticked check boxes that seem to festoon all windows crapps, I am long practiced at automatically unticking everything during install.

The trouble with the apple apps is that I installed iTunes. I was told that Quicktime was required so I installed that too.

Nowhere during this process was I informed that I was also installing apple "Picture Viewer" as part of the deal. This along with the fact that the "stop frigging nagging me you piece of utter crap" checkbox did absolutely nothing to stop the constant "reminders" that Quicktime wasn't the "overlord of all multimedia" on my PC is enough to inspire anyone into becoming a "complainer".

Fortunately, I don't use this machine for anything other than playing around occasionally to see what all the fuss is in Windows Land, but the whole sorry affair is pretty much indicative of the supreme arrogance and disdainful attitude towards customers held by most players in the proprietary software ecosystem.

apple is no different than rest, they want their customers to bend over and take it without complaints and don't care whether you enjoy it or not.

Paris, cuz she likes to take it from behind too

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Jobs Horns

The only browser with out phishing protection

I wouldnt mind so much if it wasnt that its the browser witht the biggest holes in it.

its worse than IE and that takes some doing.

I even got my girlfreind off Safari and on to Firefox and she is on a mac.

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Thumb Down

Lolz... wintards mactards...

zomg, these days with large capacious machines and multicores you can virtualize and/or multiboot.

Do yourself a favour and have a look at what the other side has to offer. Heck, you can even make a dell boot leopard. Sorta... but I'd recommend tiger instead.

(I accept however Vista is a piece of cR4P that's best stuffed back up M$'s arse. One day however we'll get a decent direct X 10 OS to game on, but I reckon vista ain't it. And apple does incredibly stupid stupid things, I won't go into because there are WAY too many to list. )

L2diversify. Open your minds. Look around. Who knows. may make you more $$$

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Linux

Quicktime?

ffmpeg :-)

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Happy

No paypal for them

For those who accepted and adopted the new browser, they might get surprised when they try to access PayPal:

http://www.nytimes.com/idg/IDG_852573C4006938800025742F0061AAFF.html?ref=technology

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Flame

@ratfox

Then Paypal can go sod off too. Some of us don't have much choice of decent browsers (Windows Mobile, here... can't see a phishing filter in any browser!)

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@ Greg, Sod Safari, Unbundle iTunes!

you can get quicktime all by its' lonesome from here http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download but you have to remember to check the radio button for the version that doesn't include iCrap and uncheck the 2 boxes below so you inbox is not overwhelmed with iSpam.

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Paris Hilton

@ goat jam

it's funny that you are a power user that uses linux primarily but can't figure out how to keep quicktime from being the default image viewer.

paris, cuz she would laugh at you too.

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Anonymous Coward

RE: @ratfox

Install Opera Mobile on your WinMo phone...

http://www.opera.com/products/choose/

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Update apps..

The biggest problem on windows and osx is the lack of a centralised update mechanism...

There's a built in updater, but it's only for the core os, and osx's updater is only for apple apps.

Ubuntu has a much better system, a single centralised updater that not only has a huge selection of packages by default, but third party developers can register their own repositories when you install an app, so they will get updated automatically in the same place too.

By contrast on windows and osx, each vendor has to make their own update procedure, either making people do it manually (which they wont, resulting in loads of security holes) or running a background process to do it for them (which really slows the machine down once you have a lot of them running).

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Stop

It's not just apple who does this!

It's the one thing that I find absolutely painful about using Windows. The installers will all allow various software companies to basically hijack your system. Real player is one of the worst offenders. Anytime it's installed unless you very carefully uncheck all the correct boxes it makes itself the default player for all sorts of things you don't want it to be.

iTunes does the same, Quicktime etc.

I really think it's about time that these software companies were forced to play fair rather than sneaking in software that we don't necessarily want.

It's all very well for relatively savvy users, like most of the people who are posting here. But, if you're relatively computer illiterate and only just about manage to open Word and type a letter or check you e-mail it can be a totally bewildering nightmare.

I mean, the majority of computer users don't even know how to uninstall things which is how they end up with 18 tool bars in internet explorer, yahoo buttons and various other things from otherwise reputable companies.

Microsoft itself is very well versed in installing things people don't want and didn't ask for too. I mean just look at what happens if you install MSN Messenger! Getting rid of it is a complete nightmare, even on a Mac it will install itself to automatically start when you log in and put itself on your dock. Same with Skype and many others.

Installing software should be very transparent and easy to follow. These methods of sneaking software into systems is basically using the same tactics as a virus. It's totally unacceptable. Shame on apple and shame on all the other supposedly reputable software vendors who do the same thing!

All you're doing is praying on those who can't actually remove your stupid software!

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Why all the coverage?

This kind of thing isn't new or even unique. Where was the shock and outrage when Java updates included broswer toolbars and Adobe Reader updates came with that started happening?

Seems to me that the 'real' problem is that Safari is finding its way onto systems via a route that the Mozilla project can't use, and that has the Mozilla project up in arms because it maybe means fewer Google Toolbar installs for them.

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Silver badge

@Joe Montana

The centralised system is not necessarily good. As soon as you allow third parties to register repositories you open the door to something dodgy sneaking in. I have several extra repositories (on Fedora, not Ubuntu) and they're disabled by default unless I want a specific update from them. I did have a problem at one point where two repositories offered different builds of the same package and it caused some issues until I spotted what it was and disabled things.

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Didn't Paypal just list Safari as "unsecure"?

I could have sworn I just read an article where Paypal is going to start blocking unsecure browsers and "Safari" was listed as one of the browsers they are going to block...

So how can installing Safari on a PC be a good thing? And how is forcing unsecure software onto a PC a good thing? You think Apple would have learned from Microsofts own mistakes...

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@Dave: updating

One repository is perhaps not a good idea, but a centralised mechanism is. That way you can add repositories to to the mechanism and control where you get updates from.

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Re: What's this "Bonjor" shite?

Its a protocol that Apple promotes for publishing services on a local area network. Its the closed / semi-closed source foundation for the open-source zeroconfig and a sort of sibling of Universal Plug and Play. Apple called it Bonjour because its original name, Rendevous, turned out to be an existing tradename.

The idea's great but I've yet to find anything that uses it in my world. I occasionally get bugged by newer computers trying to be user friendly or 'smart' or something so this may be this type of code in operation. I tend to disable it at my earliest opportunity.

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Anonymous Coward

Safari

wont render my company's web site right. but fire fox and koncor will

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Stop

Look in the mirror.

How many times when reading the comments do I look back on my experience installing my Windows software and utilities and think about all the times all the crap-ware and spyware was installed and 9 times out of 10 it was not listed on the install menu. And the other 1 time out of 10 it was listed on a long list of ticked boxes and it itself was automatically ticked! and 9 times out of 10 I would catch it but that 1 time out of 10 it would sneak past me during a install/reinstall/update install.

Then I look at all the winging and moaning on this one Apple update program and have to sit back and smile....

Things that make you go hmmm :-)

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Anonymous Coward

RE: Update apps

For OS X you have a third party option (to cover your third party apps) of "Version Tracker" - http://www.versiontracker.com.

RE: Bonjor - Like Martin Usher said - it's a network discovery service, so that Mac users can setup their network devices with almost no configuration. When it works, it works well. One of the networks I manage is primarily Mac's with HP printers, and setting the whole thing up was a doddle.

As a Windows/OSX/Linux user/supporter - they all have their pro's and cons in my opinion, and most are personal to the users themselves. While the basic user will struggle with any of them, most of the more experienced of us will be keeping an eye on updates, and controlling what's installed to keep things running smoothly.

I hate the "<os>Tard" label many of the people seem to be using. No O/S is better overall for everyone. Like cars - each to their own. OSX users - you're not gods. OSX is not impregnable. Linux users, you may think your OS is the best, but for the average Joe-PC user, who just wants to work from home in a similar environment to work will struggle with the switch. Linux still has too many variants for the general public to grasp. Windows users - carry on with the service packs, windows updates, and never stop looking at the alternatives. Vista may be a bag of sh*t right now, but so was 95, 98, and XP in the early stages.

It's a bloody tick in the box and the end of the day. Most register readers should be clued up enough to spot it, just like the google/yahoo/ask etc. tool bars that come hidden away under advanced setup for many applications these days.

If you didn't spot it - then chances are your one of those users who ticked "yes" when the last dodgy web site you visited told you that your PC was infected, and asked if you wanted to install some spyware software.

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Re: Website

"wont render my company's web site right. but fire fox and koncor will"

Err, so that'd be the fault of the web developer not checking the site in ALL available browsers then.... not exactly the browsers fault.

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Anonymous Coward

@Joe Montana

"By contrast on windows and osx, each vendor has to make their own update procedure, either making people do it manually (which they wont, resulting in loads of security holes) or running a background process to do it for them (which really slows the machine down once you have a lot of them running)."

I think it's just Office that runs a background process. Almost all other OSX programs I use check in background when you start the program (or when you start the program once per week/month/period).

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Linux

Not Just Safari

It seems that if you just have quicktime installed you will also be offered iTunes along with Safari, A friend of mine is constantly nagged to update a copy of iTunes that isn't installed. iTunes and Safari suck anyway.

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Welcome Back Freaky ...

how was it there? Did those nasty electrodes give you headaches?

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Linux

Nasty buggers it is worse then SONY's faux pas

Nasty buggers , it is worse then SONY's faux pas back in 2005 , talk about evil stupidity and not learning the lessons of the past !

But then again , who needs either the very insecure QT or the crud called Safari anyway , as the latter was the downfall of Mac Book Air anyway and former is bloatware that caused many a problem with Adobe video edit files , so much for Apple's grandiose and misleading TV adds !

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Bronze badge
Stop

@Goat Jam

"Fortunately, I don't use this machine for anything other than playing around occasionally to see what all the fuss is in Windows Land, but the whole sorry affair is pretty much indicative of the supreme arrogance and disdainful attitude towards customers held by most players in the proprietary software ecosystem."

Jesus, that's a laugh. If I install pretty much ANY Linux distro I get hundreds if not THOUSANDS of completely unrequested applications dumped all over my HDD. The bundling of Apple's Picture Viewer application is WORSE than this? They're not even in the same league.

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Anonymous Coward

Love Apple

Is Webster freaky S. Jobs' disowned love child?

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Stop

@Frank Bough

There are two differences here Frank

1) Those picture viewers all come by default with the distro with the "favoured" one getting default status.

2) If I install, say, amarok on my linux box, it doesn't go and stealthily install an unneeded and unwanted picture viewer and add insult to injury by setting it as the default viewer.

That's the difference. I installed an audio jukebox. And for decision I get

1) an audio jukebox

2) an unwanted (but at least forewarned of) video player that is so feature poor as to be almost unusable.

3) An unwanted picture viewer that is not mentioned anywhere and acts as a nag by proxy service for the unwanted video player.

4) An unwanted and unnecessary "apple software updater". Unnecessary because all I wanted is one application which should be able to self update without the help of an always running, cycle burning, memory hogging "software updater"

5) An attempt to slip an unwanted, insecure browser onto my system by pretending it is a "apple software update"

And all because I simply wanted to install iTunes.

If that doesn't count as disdainful and arrogant then I honestly don't know what does.

How long before apple come up with a "desktop & web search toolbar" and unilaterally decide that iTunes can't work without it?

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jai
Silver badge

you can please some of the people some of the time...

....but you can't please Mozilla management ever

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@Sean O'Connor

The day I start taking fucking PAYPAL's advice about online financial security is the day a Reg podcast garrots me with my own headphone lead.

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